Just A Question !

[Princess]

So I've heard alot of people sayign this shouldn't be allowed at weddings and this and that are wrong, rituals, etc etc.

So my question is, what SHOULD a Sikh wedding be? What types of things go on? How is it performed? What do the bride and groom wear? I heard the bride can't wear red on her wedding so what does she wear? :TH:

Oh and also, if we can't wear red, is maroon ok ?

Some people say, when the bride enters her husband's home for the first time, she has to put her hand prints on the wall :wub: ?? :wub: The mother-in-law puts oil at the doorstep <_< ?? Sisters of groom put kalgi on the groom and before he reaches Gurudwara he takes it off ?? (Yes i know there was a topic on that specifically )! And what's this about putting haldi/baisin and sum other stuff on the bride/groom before their wedding day ?? Is it just cuz the Baisin makes your're skin more whiter?!?! Thas wha my mummy ji's reply was when i asked her

And can someone please tell me what SAGAN is ???? I honestly see no point in seating the bride and groom infront of Guru Ji and then everyone lines up to give them money ?? I mean, it could be done elsewhere if thats supposed to happen instead of in the Gurudwara you know wha i mean.

:doh:

[`KuMi´]

soz bout diss

i fought u was like a 14 yr oldd

buh nnow usound like ur bout ta get married

yoo got a q for yoez lot i wanna ave a party afta ma weddin den latta a renhsabi <_< :wub: :wub: :doh:

[navdeep kaur]

Waheguroo ji ka khalsa, waheguroo ji ki fateh!

So my question is, what SHOULD a Sikh wedding be? What types of things go on? How is it performed? What do the bride and groom wear? I heard the bride can't wear red on her wedding so what does she wear? 

Oh and also, if we can't wear red, is maroon ok  ?

A Gursikh wedding is basically the same as any other anand karj, the groom wears a chola (at all wedding i have seen) while the bride wears a kesri/blue suit. and no maroon is just another shade of red.

Some people say, when the bride enters her husband's home for the first time, she has to put her hand prints on the wall  ??  The mother-in-law puts oil at the doorstep  ?? Sisters of groom put kalgi on the groom and before he reaches Gurudwara he takes it off ?? (Yes i know there was a topic on that specifically  )! And what's this about putting haldi/baisin and sum other stuff on the bride/groom before their wedding day ?? Is it just cuz the Baisin makes your're skin more whiter?!?! Thas wha my mummy ji's reply was when i asked her 

i think all these customs are manmat..but i m not sure.

And can someone please tell me what SAGAN is ???? I honestly see no point in seating the bride and groom infront of Guru Ji and then everyone lines up to give them money ?? I mean, it could be done elsewhere if thats supposed to happen instead of in the Gurudwara you know wha i mean.

the reason why it is done in the presence of guru maharaj is to get his blessing...

i tried my best @ answering these ?s but i do have many questions myself...the stuff that i stated factuall, i read in the basic rehat maryada pamphlet.

sorry..couldnt help much but hope this is a good start.

Waheguroo ji ka khalsa, waheguroo ji ki fateh!

[Princess]

:TH: Thank you !!

No not asking this cuz i wanna get married lol

still in uni

14 ?!?!?! :wub: naii!! <_<

[Gupt daasan daas]

Wedding Ceremony/Ceremony of Bliss

In the past, society was divided into four caste groups and four stages of life (child, student, householder/family and spiritual/old age) for the effective functioning of all tasks. The life of a celibate holy man was considered the highest lifestyle and the accepted method to reach God. The householder’s life was considered as the worst lifestyle and it was thought to be an obstacle on the path to spiritual

enlightenment. It was this teaching that forced Kings like Partharee and Gopi Chand to give up their kingdoms, get their ears pierced and live in jungles. However, having done this, and wandering with a stick in one hand and a satchel over the shoulder, begging for food, they still ended up crying in anguish:

rovih rwjy kMn pVwie ] Gir Gir mwgih BIiKAw jwie ]

"The King cries after getting his ears pierced. He goes from house to house

begging for sustenance."

(SGGSJ Ang 954)

By detaching yourself from ordinary life, leaving your home and surviving off wild fruits in jungles, the love of God is not achieved and even the love of sin is not removed in this way:

iblwvlu ] igRhu qij bn KMf jweIAY cuin KweIAY kMdw ]

Ajhu ibkwr n CofeI pwpI mnu mMdw ]

"BILAAVAL: Abandoning his household, he may go to the forest, and live by picking fruit; but even so, his sinful, evil mind does not renounce corruption."

(SGGSJ Ang 855)

mweI mwgq qRY loBwvih ]

"You call her mother, but are lured by the three qualities, the mind, the eyes and the ears. The mind wants sexual contact with a woman, the eyes want to see an attractive woman and the ears want to hear the sweet words of a woman."

(SGGSJ Ang 903)

The person still remains entangled in sin. Many ‘holy men’ have gone and lived in jungles, yet they regretted doing so and Satguru says:

iesu ByKY Qwvhu igrho Blw ijQhu ko vrswie ]

"Instead of wearing these beggars’ robes, it is better to be a householder, and give to others."

(SGGSJ Ang 587)

Going to live in the jungles would be of use if God himself lived in the jungle. God is to be attained within yourself, by tuning into the Shabad, so what need is there to go anywhere else? This is why Bhagat Farid has said living in jungles is a waste of time:

PrIdw jMglu jMglu ikAw Bvih viNx kMfw moVyih ] vsI rbu ihAwlIAY jMglu ikAw FUFyih ]19]

"Fareed Ji says, why do you wander from jungle to jungle, crashing through the thorny trees? The Lord abides in the heart; why are you looking for Him in the jungle?"

(SGGSJ Ang 1378)

DnwsrI mhlw 9 ] kwhy ry bn Kojn jweI ]

srb invwsI sdw Alypw qohI sMig smweI ]1 ] rhwauu ]

puhp miD ijau bwsu bsqu hY mukr mwih jYsy CweI ]

qYsy hI hir bsy inrMqir Gt hI Kojhu BweI]1]

"DHANAASAREE, NINTH SAROOP (FORM):

Why do you go looking for Him in the forest? Although he is unattached, he dwells everywhere. He is always with you as your companion. Pause. Like the fragrance which remains in the flower, and like the reflection in the mirror, the Lord dwells deep within; search for Him within your own heart, O Siblings of Destiny."

(SGGSJ Ang 684)

The destruction of ego is to be achieved by immersing your heart in Naam, then God is attained.

haumY nwvY nwil ivroDu hY duie n vsih iek Twie ]

"Ego is opposed to the Name of the Lord; the two do not dwell in the same place."

(SGGSJ Ang 560)

A question was posed to Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, why doesn’t Naam become imbued in our hearts? Guru ji replied:

rsu suienw rsu rupw kwmiNx rsu prml kI vwsu ]

"You have a love for making gold jewellery, you have a love for making silver

dishes, you have a love for lusting after the opposite sex, and a love for putting

sandalwood fragrance on."

(SGGSJ Ang 15)

When all exterior tastes, desires and attachments have been extinguished, then Vaheguru’s Naam will become imbued in your heart and reveal itself. Vaheguru will become self-revealed at this point. The aim is to stay detached from worldly passions and to imbue Naam into the mind, not to wonder uselessly in jungles. This is why Satguru ji says

Gr bwrI hoie vriqAw Gr bwrI isK pYrIN pwieAw ]

"A Sikh is to be a householder, if the Sikh is a true Sikh (i.e. a Brahmgyani) and one meets such a Sikh, one is to surrender at the feet of such a Sikh and do their seva in humility."

(Bhai Gurdas ji //. 6, Pauri 2)

The Gurus stayed detached from worldly passions whilst living the life of

householders and preached the same message to their Sikhs:

jogu n BgvI kpVI jogu n mYly vyis] nwnk Gir bYiTAw jogu pweIAY siqgur kY aupdyis ]

"Yoga is not obtained by wearing saffron robes; Yoga is not obtained by wearing dirty robes. Guru ji says, Yoga is obtained even while sitting in your own home, by following the Teachings of the True Guru." (SGGSJ Ang 1421)

nwnk siqguir ByitAY pUrI hovY jugiq ] hsMidAw KylMidAw pYnMidAw KwvMidAw ivcy hovY mukiq ]

"Guru ji says, meeting the True Guru, one comes to know the Perfect Way. While; laughing, playing, dressing and consuming fine foods, he/she is liberated."

(SGGSJ Ang 522)

Today many people have forgotten the above teachings and started to live outside the boundaries laid down by Gurmat, doing what they feel is right or wrong. Some Amritdharee Sikhs marry non-Amritdharees just for money but this is not right. The marriage should not be based upon desire for wealth etc. A marriage should be based on the same Dharam and qualities in both people.

According to Gurmat both the bride and bridegroom should be Amritdharee. The Kurmayee should be a good deed and not involve taking money from your

daughters/sisters. No form of dowry (gifts from the Brides family) should be given or accepted. Bhai Sahib Singh ji writes in a Rehatnama:

kMinAw dyvY isK ko lyvY nih ikCu dwm ] soeI myrw isK hY phucy gur ky Dwm ] 25]

"Guru Gobind Singh ji is saying that the Sikh that marry’s his daughter to a Sikh and does not take any money, he is a true Sikh of mine and will reach my abode in Sachkand."

(Bhai Sahib Singh Rehatnama p.160)

The bride and bridegroom should be Amritdharee, follow the Rehat, recite Nitnem and as much additional Gurbani as possible and have knowledge of Sikh history. Besides their Rehat, their principles, age, Dharam, education, appearance and other qualities are to be taken into consideration.

Ideally, the bride should be about four years younger than the bridegroom. At the Kurmayee/engagement the bride’s family are to give the bridegroom a token of five Rupees (£, $ etc) and a Kirpan with a gatra. The groom’s family should give the bride a token gift of five Rupees (£, $ etc), a kangha and a kirpan with a Gatra.

At the time of the Kurmayee, the groom’s family should start either an Akand Paath or a Sahej Paath. After the Bhog, Karah Parsaad must be distributed and Kirtan sung. However, if for any reason, an Akand Paath or Sahej Paath cannot be

performed, then the Kurmayee must be conducted in the presence of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

kIqw loVIAY kMmu su hir pih AwKIAY ] kwrju dyie svwir siqgur scu swKIAY ]

"Whatever job needs doing, make a supplication in front of the Lord. ‘May you make perfect what I am about to do’, this is Satguru Sahib Ji’s true teaching."

(SGGSJ Ang 91)

Similar shabads should be recited. Following a Hukamnama, the groom should be given the five rupees and kirpan with a gatra. The following shabad should be

recited simultaneously:

sy sMjog krhu myry ipAwry ] ijqu rsnw hir nwmu aucwry ]

"Oh my beloved, Lord, please grace me with presence of those saints,

by the meeting of whom my tongue may continuously recite Naam."

(SGGSJ Ang 743)

Only Karah Parshad is to be distributed. Eating dates, putting on a Tilak (Hindu marking on the forehead), singing inappropriate songs, whistling, putting on sinful records etc are all prohibited. On such happy occasions drinking alcohol, eating meat and other sinful actions are not to be performed. The giving and taking of clothes, jewellery etc is prohibited.

When the couple are ready to enter marriage, then the relations of both families are to meet and collectively decide on a date, not paying any notice to superstitions and staying within Gurmat.

swhw gxih n krih bIcwru ] swhy aUpir eykMkwru ]

"You calculate the auspicious days, but you do not understand that the One Creator Lord is above these auspicious days."

(SGGSJ Ang 904)

On the wedding invitation "God is One – He is realised by the True Guru’s Grace" is to be written, by which all obstacles are removed and the event is successfully completed. According to the capabilities of the families, an Akhand Paath or Sehaj Paath should be held a few days before the Anand Karaj. During this happy occasion "Vadhans of the 4th Guru Ghoreean" is to be sung and other Gurbani of a similar nature is to be recited at the bride and bridegrooms homes. Folk songs are not to be sung and only Gurbani is to be recited. The bride is not to wear any jewellery and in addition make-up, bindi and the wearing of a sarees is not allowed. The bridegroom’s family is to perform Ardas, take a Hukamnama from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and then start their journey for the wedding. The marriage party of the bridegroom is to be small. Playing dirty songs, hiring female dancers, doing bhangra and dancing about is prohibited.

The following superstitions are not to be heeded to – making pigtails of grass, pouring oil, and wearing a Sehra (chaplet). Many argue that Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji wore a Sehra around his head at his wedding and Gurdwara Sehra Sahib at Anandpur Sahib has been built to commemorate this. But this practice was prevalent before Khanda Amrit was prepared. Afterwards, wearing a Sehra was prohibited.

Money is not to be waved over the heads of either the bride or bridegroom. The following superstitions/practices are also prohibited:

1. Wearing a Kalgi (which was worn by Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a sign of his Sovereignty);

2. Giving a ceremonial bath to the bride or bridegroom on the eve of the wedding and breaking objects after the bath;

3. Putting on a paste prepared with oil, barley flour and turmeric;

4. Drinking water after waving it over the heads of the bride/bridegroom; and

5. Bowing to the shrines of ancestors/saints etc.

These useless actions are not to be performed. When the bridegroom and his family arrive at the place of the wedding ceremony, the following shabad is to be read,

hm Gir swjn Awey ]

"My friends have come into my home"

(SGGSJ Ang 764)

Other similar Shabads are also to be recited.

Upon arrival at the house of the bride, all are to greet each other by saying "Gurfateh" to one another. Money is not to be thrown. An Ardas is to be performed to ensure a smooth running ceremony proceeds, this is the Milni of Gursikhs. The singing of abusive songs ridiculing the bridegrooms family by the bride’s family, or tying a ribbon to hold the bridegroom’s family back from entering, are all

prohibited. Food is to be eaten after reciting the following Salok,

sloku ]

kwm kRoD Aru loB moh ibnis jwie AhMmyv ]

nwnk pRB srxwgqI kir pRswdu gurdyv ]

"By coming under the sanctury of the Lord; Lust, anger, greed, emotional attachment and ego are eradicated. Upon the blessing of Sri Guru Ram Das Sahib is the sanctuary of the Lord attained."

(SGGSJ Ang 269)

After eating, water is to be offered to cleanse hands and mouths and Ardas is to be performed. The wedding is to be performed at the Gurdwara, regardless of the size of the house of the bride. If it is not possible to perform the Anand Karej at a Gurdwara, only then is the house of the bride to be used for the wedding. Sri Guru Granth Sahib should be seated in the cleanest and nicest place in the home.

hir nwmY ky hovhu joVI gurmuiK bYshu sPw ivCwie ]

"Let yourselves be joined to the Name of the Lord; become Gurmukh,

spread out your mat, and sit down."

(SGGSJ Ang 1185)

In line with Gurmat both families are to respectfully sit in the presence of Guru Sahib. The bride is to enter the Darbar Sahib with her face uncovered and bow to Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The bridegroom and bride are to sit in front of Guru Sahib. The bridegroom is to sit on the right and the bride to his left. They should sit on the same level as the Sangat and not on any raised platform/spread. After both have been seated, the couple and their father’s (uncles, brothers or cousins may stand in their place if required) are to stand for an Ardas for the commencement of the Anand Karej.

thas maryada

stay in the four khalsa colors maaan, blue, orange, white, black

these are out identity, part of our bana

other colors are ure choice if u really wanna, but no red or green

u cant fool guru je by weraing maroon or really light red etc.

ure choice, bana is bana

bhula chuka maf

[GuruJiDiPyari]

Gupt daasn daas, thank you <_< I think i had these questions in my head as well, but this post has cleared them.

I have one question though about shagan, I am curios and would like to know, if anyone could hep me get the answer. My mother says that shagan should be done. She did shagan by putting oil on the corners of the front door when Guru Granth Sahib ji entered our house. I would like to know if this is in accordance with Gurmat. My mom had the utmost satkar when Guru Sahib entered the house. And she put oil on the corners of the door out of respect. But regardless of whether something like this is done out of pyaar and respect, is it still in accordance with Gurmat?

I had started a thread on rituals before and got replies that led me to belive that all this is pure manmat. But onone listens, and they says it is shagan, and should be done and they just shut me up right there. I would like to know though, if something like has been done in older times. If Gursikhs have even done this?

Thanks in advance, Waheguru jee ka khalsa Waheguru je ki fateh!

[sissy]

hi....

gupt daasan daas quoted

'jogu n BgvI kpVI jogu n mYly vyis] nwnk Gir bYiTAw jogu pweIAY siqgur kY aupdyis ]

"Yoga is not obtained by wearing saffron robes; Yoga is not obtained by wearing dirty robes. Guru ji says, Yoga is obtained even while sitting in your own home, by following the Teachings of the True Guru." (SGGSJ Ang 1421) '

however, i would interpret this differently....'Yoga is not obtained by wearing saffron robes; Yoga is not obtained by wearing dirty robes.'...i don't think waheguru ji is so concerned with our aesthetics that e.g. red should not be work at a sikh wedding....it is pyar for the guru's tecahings which are paramount

i can understand why there may be a historical basis for choosing particular colours eg the khalsa blue, orange etc....however, i believe that waheguru ji is in everything....sounds corny but i see/feel waheguru when i see kids playing, when i hear laughter etc so yes i find waheguru in beautiful things and therefore also find waheguru in all colours of the rainbow that waheguru has generously given us to illuminate our world (imagine a black and white world?!)...but i also see waheguru in people's tears and feel waheguru's strength when someone is crying in my arms....waheguru's teachings are available to us in the good and bad, in happiness and strife...and in my opinion, can be found in all colours equally...

on that basis, i think we should appreciate all that waheguru has given us rather than concentrating on times eg when the hindu's wore red or something, to restrict our choices today...so i would say wear red if u like...at minimum make sure that u understand the anand karaj....too many people have sikh weddings, have the anand karaj without having a clue what they are doing, what it means etc! blind faith is more of a problem than colours...however i appreciate that the people fear that we are losing touch with sikh heritage etc

bhul chuk maph...

[Gupt daasan daas]

bhenji, its manmat

[sissy]

manmat means....? sorry, i'm somewhat lacking on the lingo!

[Gupt daasan daas]

tman da math

hmm

guess in english it wud translate into following ure own thoughts even if there right or not

bhula chuka maf