Why are we altering this beautiful gift-SIKHISM-

[gchana]

WJKWJF,

I am in agreement with veerji that Rehat is unfortunantly just a list of rituals, which are of no good use i feel.

I feel that certain things in the rehat contradict what Guru Ji says. I mean in the rehat is says that one who wears a cap becomes a lepper. Ask you self, so do all them people that wear caps become leppers. It's alright to listen to Sants, but equally if we do not know certain things we have one and only one person to turn to. That is GURU GRANTH, our GURU if some people have forgotten. In order to find out something its best to do it yourself. Guru Granth is available in loads of languages, and they all provide information on certain topics. Its not like we have to turn to Gianis and Sants to let us know what certain things in the Granth say, WE CAN DO IT OURSELVES. Just remember, AAP HATHI AAPHI AAP KHARAJ SAVARHI (With Your Own Hands, Deal With Your Own Matters).

I mean, when we say that comb your hair twice in a day, dont change khachera by taking it all off, have a bath with cold water; what does that actually achieve. Kabeer Ji says that the body at the end of the day just burns away and theres nothing left of it. So how does such rituals gain attachment to God. If we as GurSikhs just keep on thinking OH WE GOTA TAKE ANMRIT, OH WE GOTA COMB OUT HAIR TWICE, etc and actually through our rituals forget GOD, then what are we doing, OUR TIME IS BEING WASTED.

Guru Gobind Singh had created Rehat, but from what i've read he has not actually written it down. Its only been passed down orally, which means that it becomes more like chinese whispers. One person's understanding and view of the rehat is passed onto another, and in turn through time the meaning changes. So then ask you self, what is the use of following something so inaccurate. Follow Guru Granth because through time not even a single word has been changed, and the only True Guide to your lives is the Guru Granth, NOT A THIRD PERSON.

Just go back to basics, Guru Ji's all lived to help guide us on the true path to God. If we start to wander away from the basics of Sikhi, in effect we are wandering away from Guru Ji. All I got to say is our aim of life is to gain attachment with God, by meditating, speaking and loving God. Without remembering God, without thinking of God, without loving God, what use is life. If we spend our lives just following wasteful rituals how do we gain attachment with God.

Sorry if I have said anything wrong, but i'm a Sikh, I learn from mistakes, so I ask for forgiveness from you my brothers & sisters and from Guru Ji.

[Gupt daasan daas]

sants like sant baba gurbachan singh je arnt here for themsleves

even gurbani says they come to save this world

i canpost so many thuks FROM GURUGRANTH SAHIB JE, THE GURU WE LISTEN TO WHO TELLS US HEED THE WORDS OF THE SAINTS AND SADHHOS

sant gurbachan singh je was already crossed over, they knew wat they were talkin bout

bhula chuka maf

[GuruManeyoGranth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

(Just to warn you, this is a long post!!! <_< )

I can see the perspective from which Jans is coming in relation to Sikhs not getting into blind rituals - this is exactly what Guru Nanak Jee taught us not to get into, i.e., the Janeoo Sakhi is case in point.

I am in agreement with veerji that Rehat is unfortunantly just a list of rituals, which are of no good use i feel.

I'd have to disagree with this statement - the Rehit, which is prescribed to us by Guru Jee, is a discipline on how we should live our life. Just like when we go to school, work, or sports, we know that we have to follow a set discipline to achieve our goals or objectives and if we lose our discipline, we know that we'll never be the best. You might feel you can "pull a fast one" over your teachers or coaches eyes a few times, but in the long term, it will affect your ability to meet your goals.

In Sikhi, we have to follow the Rehat prescribed by Guru Jee to meet our goals in Sikhi. Guru Gobind Singh Jee says "Rehat Pyaree, Mujh Ko Sikh Na Pyaraa", i.e., the discipline with which a person lives is more important than the simple title of Sikh which he attaches to himself. Although Rehat may seem ritualistic to us at times, this is because a lack of faith and devotion in us - the fault is with us, not the Guru Sahib.

The minimum Rehat that we must follow as an Amritdharee is that as prescribed by Akal Takhat Sahib in the Sikh Rehat Maryada. However, there are stricter Rehats out there, which if we follow with respect and understanding, will give us even more discipline and understanding of Guru Jee as we follow the Gurmat Marag.

I feel that certain things in the rehat contradict what Guru Ji says. I mean in the rehat is says that one who wears a cap becomes a lepper. Ask you self, so do all them people that wear caps become leppers. It's alright to listen to Sants, but equally if we do not know certain things we have one and only one person to turn to. That is GURU GRANTH, our GURU if some people have forgotten. In order to find out something its best to do it yourself. Guru Granth is available in loads of languages, and they all provide information on certain topics. Its not like we have to turn to Gianis and Sants to let us know what certain things in the Granth say, WE CAN DO IT OURSELVES. Just remember, AAP HATHI AAPHI AAP KHARAJ SAVARHI (With Your Own Hands, Deal With Your Own Matters).

I agree that Guru Jee is our final guide/teacher on how we should lead our lives according to Gurmat; Sher_Panjabi calls Gurbani “the litmus test” --> this is exactly right. However, Guru Jee also encourages us to join the congregation of the holy, i.e., the Saadh-Sangat (but it must be real Sangat, not fake Sangat). If we are in real Sangat, then we should learn off those Gurmukhs about how to live the Gurmat Path. This does not mean blindly follow what Sants or Gianis say; we should judge it against Gurbani - but nevertheless, the sangat of Gurmukhs is very important.

Kabeer Ji says that the body at the end of the day just burns away and theres nothing left of it. So how does such rituals gain attachment to God. If we as GurSikhs just keep on thinking OH WE GOTA TAKE ANMRIT, OH WE GOTA COMB OUT HAIR TWICE, etc and actually through our rituals forget GOD, then what are we doing, OUR TIME IS BEING WASTED.

Of course blindly following rituals does lead to a waste of time - but the Rehat prescribed to us by Guru Jee is not blind - it comes from the SatGur or True Guru. Guru Jee also tells us that we must follow this Rehat with love and devotion in order to attain Waheguroo - Jin Prem Kiyo Tinhee Prabh Paayo.

In relation to the Rehat of Damdami Taksal of concerning Tobacco, it was as follows:

By using tobacco, all good deeds are destroyed and the person will suffer for a long time in hell. A Gursikh will rather die than touch tobacco. If a Gursikh comes into contact with anything containing tobacco, for example, cigarettes, cigars, paan, charas, pipes, they must wash their hands with soap five times. Then they must purify their Kesh, body and clothes by bathing.

This specific Rehat is designed to explain to us the significance of keeping away from Tobacco. I heard Giani Thakur Singh explain it in a Katha, and it is based on a story of Guru Gobind Singh Jee:

Once Guru Jee was travelling on his horse, and the horse came by a Tobacco field. When it was nearby, the horse avoided the field and took a long route round. The Singhs with Guru Jee asked why? Guru Jee replied that, as Singhs should not go near Tobacco, his horse would not either.

If we look at Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee’s life, we can see that they were a Gurmukh of a very high spiritual state: anyone who had any contact with them testifies this and they inspired thousands into Sikhi. They were also extremely well-versed in Guru Granth Sahib Jee’s Gurbani and the Rehat prescribed by the Taksal would not go against Gurmat.

Giani Thakur Singh explains that the particular Tobacco Rehat emphasises to us (if carried out with love and devotion), that we must stay away from Tobacco, and we should not go anywhere near it. We should remember that just as the Guru’s Horse doesn’t go near Tobacco, neither should a Sikh. If we come into contact with Tobacco, then when we wash our hand 5 times, our body, Kesh and clothes, any Gursikh following this Rehat would realise how bad the thing is that he has done, and it would reinforce in his mind that it is imperative that he should stay away from Tobacco.

I’d just like to say that when we criticise the actions of Sants or Gurmukhs’, we often fail to appreciate their love for Guru Jee, and we jump to the conclusion that they are creating rituals. However, if we create the same love for Guru Jee that they had, we would perhaps understand why they asked us to follow specific Rehats or live our Jeevans in a particular way.

Bhullan Chukkan Maaf Karneeya

Waheguroo

[Shaheed]

ok i am not as learned as u all, but i have a question...

if guru ji said dont fall pray to useless rituals with no spirtual gains

and

washing your hands 5 times, is a useless ritual in your opinion

then why would guru ji compremise his previous jots?

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

The reference to the Purana quote is ONLY as a statement to show that other faiths are against tobacco as well, and does not reflect on Gurbani itself. Take it for what it is.

The Panthic Rehat Maryada was drafted by Sikhs who sat down with all the old Maryadas and tested them against Gurbani. There are Maryadas that state that wine is ok to drink too...but that is absolutely against Gurmat. So they were excluded and the current Maryada is tested against Gurbani. The Rehatnamae were written by individuals who did not always conform to Gurmat OR are suspected to have their writings corrupted.

As per this Rehat is third person and stuff. The Panj Pyare are not just 5 dudes chillin out in antiquated clothing. They represent the Guru and are authorized by the Guru to initiate members into the faith. They possess the authority and the power of the Guru. To say that they are fumbling around trying to recite a Rehat that has been changed over and over due to oral tradition is actually quite an insult to the Guru's power. I question you whether you think that the Almighty, who makes and destroys worlds with a mere word would not be able to keep the Rehat alive in Sikhism. Surely, that Almighty can do that, right?

If you have an issue with the Rehat and you believe that there are parts to it that are mindless ritualism, I want you to post each and every one of them so they can be discussed and the problem solved.

[Bijla Singh]

but i personally beleive that many are extreme Guru Gobind gave us the 5ks in times of war

It almost seems that the person or 'sant' that wrote this had strong racist feeling towards the muslims or hindus.

But correct my if im wrong..the SGGS compiled only of the ten gurus sayings emphasises the point that there is no heaven or hell.

That is GURU GRANTH

Guru Granth is available in loads of languages,

Its not like we have to turn to Gianis and Sants to let us know what certain things in the Granth say

I guess we have some "educated" "modern" thinkers here. Did anyone not notice the way these "sikhs" are referring to Guru Ji? to me it seems as if the writers are trying to refer to Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a book. Sikhi is the best. We already know it. First you praise Sikhi and then write your philosophical ideas. People who CHOOSE the path of Sikhi very well know about Five K's and Rehat Maryada. Their research and knowledge on Sikhi astonishes me but you guys are quite the opposite. Let’s see what more you have to say. But know one thing. Sikhi is a separate religion. A Sikh is he/she who takes Amrit of Guru Ji and follows the Rehat Maryada prescribed by Panj Pyare. A Sikh must stay in the circle of Rehat. Like it or not, this is the way in Sikhi. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[jans]

I agree and understand all the principles behind each code of conduct. I am only disturbed by the way they are written.

"Those that consume even a minuscule amount of tobacco are disowned in the afterlife by their ancestors and drinking water from such a person is similar to drinking alcohol. By drinking alcohol seven generations are exterminated and by consuming Bhang/marajuana the body is destroyed. The person who consumes tobacco exterminates one hundred generations and many generations go to hell because of gossiping."

(Sri Gur Partap Suraj, Rit 5, ansoo 29, volume 13)

FIRSTLY I TOTALLY AGREE with the fact that tobacco or any stimulant is not going to do us any good but as i had mentioned before, The statement above almost seems hateful. I could be a sikh who has taken amrit,who has strong moral values, but that shouldnt mean that i have to look down or impose hate or outcaste people who do take stimulants or do bad things. Sikhi is also about love, care and compassion. The entire rehit seems to be written to instill fear instead of understanding.

[Bijla Singh]

The statement above almost seems hateful.

the statement is not telling you to hate people but only hate the wrong doings of the people. smoking is bad and I hate it but I do not hate people who smoke. Gursikhs like Bhai Randhir Singh Ji never even wanted to shake hands with people who smoked. Baba Nand Singh Ji and Sant Kartar Singh Ji never ate food touched by people who smoked. love people but doesn't mean love everything they do. you misunderstood the statement. don't blame it on Sikhi. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh