5 K's

[Ryu Hayabusa]

This is very much extreme and has nohting to do with someone who has a haircut but is a good sikh.

I guess depends on what you define as sikh. Guru Nanak's first hukam to Bhai Mardana Jee was that he can't cut his hair. If you break the fundamental hukams of our guru's, can you really call yourself a guru ka sikh? Why do you consider doing nashay worse than cutting hair? Just because cutting hair is more acceptable to the world? But is it worse sikhiwise?

Cleaning your mind, your heart, isn't an easy task. It can take lifetimes. Having true love in your heart, to the point where seperation from your guru is worse than death, can also take lifetimes and massive amounts of dedication. It's easy saying I have love, or am clean of mind and soul, but those are just empty words. If we can't even follow external rehit and the physical discipline given to us by our guru's, how do we ever expect to keep that inner rehit, which is much harder?

I don't want to sound rude or anything, but think about this. Why do you cut your hair? What drives you to have to run a blade over your face every morning? Or take the time and money to go

running to a barber? Does it mean that you're still stuck in the maya of societal pressures? What can your spiritual level really be if you still have these desires? Especially considering that your guru, Guru Nanak Dev Jee, told you to keep kes.

The problem occurs when you try comparing yourself to others. Whatever mistakes some amritdharee is making doesn't make your spirtituality or your level any higher. Those are mistakes that they'll answer for. And why do you expect amritdharees to be perfect? Shukking amrit is just the start; many mistakes can and will be made.

The thing is, you're not trying to be the sikh of so and so amritdharee, you're trying to be the sikh of your guru. When you die and face dharm raaj, are you going to point to someone like me and say, "Well, that singh there took amrit but slept in everyday, didn't do enough paat, stared at girls, lied, cheated and all sorts of other things. I'm obviously a better person than him." Will you get a pat on the back for that? You have to answer for yourself, not others. So many times, I've tried to make myself feel better about myself by looking at other singhs and their weaknesses. I look at their mistakes and think, "Hey, I'm doing pretty good. Look at how messed up they are. Compared to them, I'm a real sikh. God'll be happen with me, no doubt about it." Unfortunately, it won't be like that. We're simply deluding ourselves and trying to escape from our own weaknesses.

Please don't take this personally, as it wasn't my intention to attack anyone personally. What you've asked is something that most of us have been through, at one level or another.

Some Singh that was a great post. I was born in Canada and none of my family has taken amrit except for my grandma and that only like 15 years ago. I for myself feel very disillusioned when I see a AmritDhari picking up gir

ls and smoking, I think to myself that It thought this guy would have some of God's wisdom by now to not do these things. I know that I won't suk amrit until I feel I am capable of holding my head up high and not set a bad example for out community.

I don't think shukking amrit is the first step. I can do naam simran just like an amritdhari can, shabad guru is shabad guru doesn't matter whose mouth it comes out of. I realise people who have been meditating for soem time feel a sad distance from the Lord and really would like to merge with him. I'm no expert but I'm just expressing my feelings. I do not think taking amrit is pointless or anything but I do feel that the individual will know WHEN to take amrit.

Still I do not at all agree with JKaur's analogy.

[S1ngh]

Oh yes.. one can do naam simran and kirtan toward waheguru.. There's no rule in sikhi saying that the people without amrit are bad or they are not good enuf.. If one is doing naam simran and sooo much sewa toward panth, then BY NATURAL WAY.. he/she will take amrit.. It's just the magic of gurbani.. NO stress.. no forcing etc...

We all should follow "change yourself to adapt to sikhi don't change sikhi to adapt you"

Another thing.. Don't generalize whole community by the bad deeds of just one person.. Just take an ex of me: im amritdhari and if some day anyone see me doing bad stuff in public, then im responsible for whatever im doing.. JUST don't bring down the whole amritdhari community down ! (BTW, he/she ain't no more amritdhari by anyway if she/he is breaking tha rehit)

[Ryu Hayabusa]

Oh yes.. one can do naam simran and kirtan toward waheguru.. There's no rule in sikhi saying that the people without amrit are bad or they are not good enuf.. If one is doing naam simran and sooo much sewa toward panth, then BY NATURAL WAY.. he/she will take amrit.. It's just the magic of gurbani.. NO stress.. no forcing etc...

We all should follow "change yourself to adapt to sikhi don't change sikhi to adapt you"

Another thing.. Don't generalize whole community by the bad deeds of just one person.. Just take an ex of me: im amritdhari and if some day anyone see me doing bad stuff in public, then im responsible for whatever im doing.. JUST don't bring down the whole amritdhari community down ! (BTW, he/she ain't no more amritdhari by anyway if she/he is breaking tha rehit)

I didn't generalise the entire community, what I meant was this 1 person(s) can give other people totally different thoughts about sikhism SO in that sense he is very irresponsible.

[Gupt_Singh]

"some singh" spoke the truth. end of discussion :umm:

[honey81online]

Waheguru Satnam,

I am Totly agree with my brother TheGuyDudeman. He is Totaly right. Not only having five k's makes a person Sikh, thats how i think. one has to have kindness and love towards public. I am from Amritsar. I know there is no value of sikhi in the market even in the guru ke nagri. What do u Think brother, Can a liittle Kirpan save us from oppesite side when the attacker having AK-47 :g what would we do just pick out our little kirpan and though it on that man...."Wo Mara"

Don't u think if sikhi is to b created in nowaday The fifth K' wud have been replaced by AK-47. :T: ? I think AK 47 is better suited and help ful than our kirpaan when it comes to saving someones life.

Your Brother HOney

(Still having, by force, un-cut hairs )

[Gupt_Singh]

there were guns in gurus times. and bow and arrows.

what happens if u run out of ammo or arrows? kirpan doesnt run out.

the kirpan has a special significance in sikhi. it is referred to as "bhagautee" by guruji and bhai gurdas. the khanda is also a metaphor for naam (double edged = wahe . guru )

because sikhi has been westernised kirpan is the only weapon most singhs/singhnees carry. i heard that guru told singhs to carry at least 5 shasters. and carrying and ak47 around as a kakkar with u isnt practical, nor does it carry the symbolism. plus an ak47 needs cleaning etc. how are u going to take an ak to bed with you? or in the shower? to think sikhi would be any different today than then highlights teh lack of belief and trust in someones faith.

u are sikh when u take amrit. part of amrit is 5 ks. 5 ks exclusively doesnt make u a sikh, only amrit does.

[S1ngh]

Honey veer.. One quick question.. Can you carry ak47 all tha time with you ?

i know i can't ..

[S1ngh]

Your Brother HOney

(Still having, by force, un-cut hairs )

Brother veerjeeee

can you pls stop saying that.. it pisses me off.. (no offense)

[honey81online]

Ok Brother if u don't want to keep Ak-47 u can keep a little pistal With a NIAL ON it that if u run out of ammo? u can use that sharp nail which is above that gun.

If my brother u notice that todays kirpan is just for showing off that it is not sharp its size is too small.

if u want to obey sikhi why don't u try the big talwar. Is any goverment allowing u to take wepon like talwar in public places.

:g just leave AK-47 AND TAKE A PISTAL WITH SHARP NAIL THAT IS GOING TO BETTER THAN THE LITTLE KIRPAN.

YOUR BROTHER

HONEY

[Jkaur]

opps i think some of you did not get wut i was trying to imply there.. the moral behind da story was its equally important to be an amritdhari and also its important for us to be clean in our minds. thats all sorry if its manmaat in ur context.

Gurfateh