5 K's

[Ryu Hayabusa]

First off I'm not an Amritdhari but I've always wondered what are the significance of the 5 K's. I know many sikhs who are amritdhari but I do not think they are better people then me, some of them smoke and stuff.

What would make an Amritdhari Sikh better then me? Just becuase they have 5 K's? Guru Nanak said let good deeds be the soil and shabad guru be the seeds. We are not supposed to beleive in symbolic stuff so why do we need symbols? I can protect myself without have a small kirpan, I can have sexual restrainst without wearing a special kacha etc. It is shabad guru that will tkae away our sins and finally merge with God not becuase I wear symbols.

Why would I need to take amrit to make myself better? I think people who are amrit dhari and do stuff like smoke and stuff if worse then a non amritdhari smoking and stuff. Also what is up with UK trend of guys wearing pugs but being clean shaven. Man I will never understand this world.

I don't mean to offend anyone , just would like a better understanding.

[Gupt_Singh]

there was just a huge discussion on amrit here.

the conclusion was - amrit is compulsory in order to get naam from guru gobind singh.

to think of others as "better" or u as "better" defeats the whole point of sikhi. concentrate on urself. if u dont have a natural urging for amrit, then uv got sum paath n namsimran to do :umm:

yes and phug w/ no dhari is very very stoopid. pity it happens so much in hindia.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

To be a student, you must "enroll" with a teacher. So a Sikh must enroll with taking amrit from the Panj Pyare, the physical embodiment of the Guru Sahib. Guru Granth Sahib also states that a Guru is needed to attain salvation:

houmai karathaa jag muaa gur bin ghor a(n)dhhaar ||

Engrossed in egotism, the world perishes. Without the Guru, there is utter darkness.

Guru Amar Daas Ji

Siree Raag

34

kott jathanaa kar rehae gur bin thariou n koe ||2||

Trying millions of things, people have grown weary, but without the Guru, none have been saved. ||2||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji

Siree Raag

51

bhaaee rae gur bin giaan n hoe ||

O Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, there is no spiritual wisdom.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji

Siree Raag

59

(Further quotes can be found by searching in Gurmukhi "Gur Bin" into http://www.sikhitothemax.com).

That is the need of amrit.

[Mkhalsa]

I know many sikhs who are amritdhari but I do not think they are better people then me, some of them smoke and stuff.

obviously they arent amritdhari anymore mate!! lol

[Ryu Hayabusa]

Sat Sri Akal:

To be a student, you must "enroll" with a teacher. So a Sikh must enroll with taking amrit from the Panj Pyare, the physical embodiment of the Guru Sahib. Guru Granth Sahib also states that a Guru is needed to attain salvation:

houmai karathaa jag muaa gur bin ghor a(n)dhhaar ||

Engrossed in egotism, the world perishes. Without the Guru, there is utter darkness.

Guru Amar Daas Ji

Siree Raag

34

kott jathanaa kar rehae gur bin thariou n koe ||2||

Trying millions of things, people have grown weary, but without the Guru, none have been saved. ||2||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji

Siree Raag

51

bhaaee rae gur bin giaan n hoe ||

O Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, there is no spiritual wisdom.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji

Siree Raag

59

(Further quotes can be found by searching in Gurmukhi "Gur Bin" into http://www.sikhitothemax.com).

That is the need of amrit.

Very good explanation.

[Jkaur]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

For those who are amritdhari, they arent allowed to smoke and drink.. its in the bejjer kurehet.. we had this discussion in one of our samelans.. a lot of people tell this that they love guruji from their heart... from inside .. so why do they need to show it by having all the kakaars.. that doesnt make them any good.. usually this people will always say that whats inside of u that matters not outside.. so virji below is a story for all of us to ponder:

THere was a couple who were happily married for few years. One day the husband had to go outstation for some work. He was suppose to come back after three days. But the husband thought to himself that he will come back a day earlier as it was his wife's birthday and give her a surprise.

When he did reached home, he had a shock of his life seeing his wife with another man. He got very :umm: . He asked his wife why she did all that. His wife said.. "Physically I had relationship with this guy. But internally I only love you. Even though I have given my body to this guy, but my heart and soul is only for you." She also included, "what really matters what is in the heart and not physically."

Now I would like to ask the sangat on this forum; can anyone accept this. That his wife is having an affair with another person but instead she says that the only person that she loves in her heart is you and it doesnt m

atter about the physical aspect. NO one can accept this I am sure.

Then why when it comes to our Guruji.. we will always say its okay as long as we are pure in our heart we don't need to show it (physically). And for those who are amritdhari, wearing kakaars is not the end. We have to link with guruji, internally also. OUr heart, soul, mind and body has to be ONE.

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Balait_da_Sher]

JKaur ji thats the best analogy i have ever heard.

[Ryu Hayabusa]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

For those who are amritdhari, they arent allowed to smoke and drink.. its in the bejjer kurehet.. we had this discussion in one of our samelans.. a lot of people tell this that they love guruji from their heart... from inside .. so why do they need to show it by having all the kakaars.. that doesnt make them any good.. usually this people will always say that whats inside of u that matters not outside.. so virji below is a story for all of us to ponder:

THere was a couple who were happily married for few years. One day the husband had to go outstation for some work. He was suppose to come back after three days. But the husband thought to himself that he will come back a day earlier as it was his wife's birthday and give her a surprise.

When he did reached home, he had a shock of his life seeing his wife with another man. He got very :umm: . He asked his wife why she did all that. His wife said.. "Physically I had relationship with this guy. But internally I only love you. Even though I have given my body to this guy, but my heart and soul is only for you." She also included, "what really matters wha

t is in the heart and not physically."

Now I would like to ask the sangat on this forum; can anyone accept this. That his wife is having an affair with another person but instead she says that the only person that she loves in her heart is you and it doesnt matter about the physical aspect. NO one can accept this I am sure.

Then why when it comes to our Guruji.. we will always say its okay as long as we are pure in our heart we don't need to show it (physically). And for those who are amritdhari, wearing kakaars is not the end. We have to link with guruji, internally also. OUr heart, soul, mind and body has to be ONE.

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

JKaur

This story is WAY too extreme, and I do not think it applies here.

If you want to apply the logic of this story then that means I can do do drugs of all kinds, be sexually promiscuois, kill people all that stuff but still do naam simrana nd think I'm a good sikh. This is very much extreme and has nohting to do with someone who has a haircut but is a good sikh.

:T:

[r.singh]

This is very much extreme and has nohting to do with someone who has a haircut but is a good sikh.

I guess depends on what you define as sikh. Guru Nanak's first hukam to Bhai Mardana Jee was that he can't cut his hair. If you break the fundamental hukams of our guru's, can you really call yourself a guru ka sikh? Why do you consider doing nashay worse than cutting hair? Just because cutting hair is more acceptable to the world? But is it worse sikhiwise?

Cleaning your mind, your heart, isn't an easy task. It can take lifetimes. Having true love in your heart, to the point where seperation from your guru is worse than death, can also take lifetimes and massive amounts of dedication. It's easy saying I have love, or am clean of mind and soul, but those are just empty words. If we can't even follow external rehit and the physical discipline given to us by our guru's, how do we ever expect to keep that inner rehit, which is much harder?

I don't want to sound rude or anything, but think about this. Why do you cut your hair? What drives you to have to run a blade over your face every morning? Or take the time and money to go running to a barber? Does it mean that you're still stuck in the maya of societal pressures? What can your spiritual level really be if you still have these desires? Especially considering that your guru, Guru Nanak Dev Jee, told you to keep kes.

The

problem occurs when you try comparing yourself to others. Whatever mistakes some amritdharee is making doesn't make your spirtituality or your level any higher. Those are mistakes that they'll answer for. And why do you expect amritdharees to be perfect? Shukking amrit is just the start; many mistakes can and will be made.

The thing is, you're not trying to be the sikh of so and so amritdharee, you're trying to be the sikh of your guru. When you die and face dharm raaj, are you going to point to someone like me and say, "Well, that singh there took amrit but slept in everyday, didn't do enough paat, stared at girls, lied, cheated and all sorts of other things. I'm obviously a better person than him." Will you get a pat on the back for that? You have to answer for yourself, not others. So many times, I've tried to make myself feel better about myself by looking at other singhs and their weaknesses. I look at their mistakes and think, "Hey, I'm doing pretty good. Look at how messed up they are. Compared to them, I'm a real sikh. God'll be happen with me, no doubt about it." Unfortunately, it won't be like that. We're simply deluding ourselves and trying to escape from our own weaknesses.

Please don't take this personally, as it wasn't my intention to attack anyone personally. What you've asked is something that most of us have been through, at one level or another.

[Guest SikhForLife]

If you want to apply the logic of this story then that means I can do do drugs of all kinds, be sexually promiscuois, kill people all that stuff but still do naam simrana nd think I'm a good sikh. This is very much extreme and has nohting to do with someone who has a haircut but is a good sikh.

i think ill have to agree to some extent.. a sikh does good deeds.. u cant be a sikh and do bad things..

anyone who does naam simran and then goes out and kills people.. etc. cant be a sikh