The Gurus Pictures

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

the most impressionable time is when you are a child, if you teach your children Sikhi by pictures of Gurus you have done years of damage. When shabad Gurus is our Guru, how will Sikhs who have been taught with pictures of Gurus get over pictures and be attached to Shabad Guru SGGS? I have been to a few Sikh camps and most children say we have ten Gods....It's all Hindu-mat..Hindus have pictures of debis and evtas, we have our colorful pictures of Gurus...we say we only believe in Shabad Guru:

isKhu sbdu ipAwirho jnm mrn kI tyk ] (320-5, gauVI, mÚ 5)

sikhahu sabad pi-aariho janam maran kee tayk.

O Sikhs, love the Word of the Shabad; in life and death, it is our only support.

muK aUjl sdw suKI nwnk ismrq eyk ]2] (320-5, gauVI, mÚ 5)

mukh oojal sadaa sukhee naanak simrat ayk. ||2||

Your face shall be radiant, and you shall find a lasting peace, O Nanak, remembering the One Lord in meditation. ||2||

As Harmeet singh and ikomkar have stated, thes epictures are nothing to sikhs, because we worship Nirankaar through Baani...Baani is our Guru, not some pic. How do you people know that is what the Gurus looked like? I doubt Guru nanak was some fat jolly looking man, for God sakes he walked all the way to Mecca and baghdad! What if someone guessed what you father looked like and drew a picture, would you say that is my father's pic? You want to meet the Gurus, do darshan of SGGS.

Today pictures, tomorow statues..people will say the statues remind us to be good sikhs....You will never find any pictures of Prophet Mohammad in Islam, but our faith..geez..we're pretty close to idol worship, i know some of you say we don't worship pictures, but then why are you afraid to throw them out? Do you think the pictures have powers in them, are they the embodiment of naam? Can you get amrit from the pictures? Do the pictures teach you Gurbani? They are just paint and paper probbaly made by non-sikhs in the first place....

Photoah da khera shado te SGGS le larr lago. Otherwise Sikhs have a weak argument that they are not Hindus....

[UntitledSingh]

Thanks for all the replies, I will burn them, good thing i didn't put them in the trash. By the way I think there is nothing wrong with art. I have a pic of the Guru taking Amrit, or some Sikhs be scalped because they didn't give up their faith, or Guru Gobind Singh Ji asking the Sikh to sacrafice their head for the faith. A picutre is worth a thousand words. Even though I know that the Gurus probably didn't look like that, and I dont bow my head to the pic, the pics are just there to remind me of the actions the Gurus took.

[Jaspaul Singh]

Pictures ?!

.. this topic comes back like once ever so often .. but eventhough the topic started didnt mean it that sense .. it always gets converted into one .. :doh:

.. pictures = worshipping >>> NO !!!

.. pictures = inspiration/education >>> YES !!!

bus.. dats it ... end of story .. simple as it is ..

btw.. ikomkar .. just wondering about your name .. just curious .. why is it that and not ikONKAR .. !? (no harm intended just want to know .. )

bhul chuk maph!

[Harmeet Singh]

I completly agree with Man kaum de lai Qurban veer

Jaspaul singh ji

How can you use pictures for inspiration? Inspiration comes from inside and when you tell kids without pictures they build themselves very strong inside because they don't have to depend upon outside images. Inside build up is more strong than anything outside.

EG. The 6 yr old muslim kids probably knows much about his/her history than a 6 yr old sikh kid knws these days who is bz playing pokemon and cartoons.

[Jaspaul Singh]

veerji ..

the example you gave about the 6 year old kids is very true and i agree with you .. but i disagree on the fact that pictures are wrong..

i have posted on this topic before and basically my whole life.. i had no sikh friends.. i had no source of knowledge of sikhi .. i had no reason to grow up as an amritdhari cuz in my family there was no one that i could look up to .. no one..

.. one thing i remember is when i would be small .. i use to ask my family .. grandma.. mom .. who is that in the pictures.. i use to goto gurdwaras and ask who is that .. what is guru ji doing .. why is he kneeling down to those 5 guys.. how can guru ji fight that lion.. is that guru jis hand in the stone, wow how did he stop that big stone wit only his hand .. and the list goes on and on ..

veerji .. it is right some people use pictures as worshipping .. but myself .. i came into sikhi cuz of this.. main reason was this .. if i didnt have this in my life to reflect on i wouldnt have any knowledge of sikhi .. if they didnt have these pictures up in gurughars iw ouldnt have any knowledge..

..now i may be a lost soul but at the time i took amrit 3 yrs.. i was one happy soul !

.. let me tell you one thing.. up til i was 18 .. i didnt give any feelings towards what was done in the darbar hall.. what was sung or said from guru granth sahib ji .. i didnt care !!! all i did was come in .. matha taek .. get the yummy parshad .. maybe seconds.. and then go chill outside and do watever ..

damn if it wasnt for those pictures i wouldnt have felt so GUILTY !!!

jio .. it depends on YOU .. it depends on one INDIVIDUAL person .. not EVERYONE is the same..

just my two cents ji .. no hard feelings ji :doh:

[Cksinghani]

wiked post Jaspaul singh :wubc:

[All-Info]

I completly agree with Man kaum de lai Qurban veer

Jaspaul singh ji

How can you use pictures for inspiration? Inspiration comes from inside and when you tell kids without pictures they build themselves very strong inside because they don't have to depend upon outside images. Inside build up is more strong than anything outside.

EG. The 6 yr old muslim kids probably knows much about his/her history than a 6 yr old sikh kid knws these days who is bz playing pokemon and cartoons.

108199[/snapback]

Ever heard the phrase a picture paints a 1000 words or what ever it is??

Think about it, a picture is inspirational, if it wasnt then WHY do we have them? Why have pictures of Shaheeds, why wear Sant Ji tops, Babbar Khalsa? They pictures people! We wear them all the time, i too wear them but then at the same time i also keep pictures of Singhs back in the day, Gurus Pictures. I dnt matha tekh them, i only matha tekh Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj BUT these pictures taught me our history.

Pictures are good for kids, if people are to stupid to realise the differnce in a pic and Living Guru is that the fault of the artist? not really. thats the fault of the person who told the foolish individual thats your Guru, Matha Tekh etc.

As for how to dispose, Burn. Why? Thats Gurus Image. Dont matter if its Not Bani or Guru Ji, but still show just a fraction of respect to the fact its an Image of Guru Ji. You are looking at the roop, that Roop is still Guru Ji. You see Khalsa, thats Guru Jis Soldier, thats HIS SIKH.

Sikhs dnt believe in idolistic worship, CORRECT, but how is having Sikhi Pictures of Gurus Pictures making it idolisitc Worship? Obviously ALL the Gurdwara people go to dont really have pictures huna, they jst our imagination showing them as pictures. People dnt start matha tekhing the pictures, they matha tekh Guru Sahib (and if you crzy enuf you will start matha tekhing a baba too).

If a picture teaches someone history then whats wrong with it? Takes 2 min to burn a picture, not hard. For all you know, that picture might have Gurbani on it, like in calendards the Gurdwara hand out. What do you do then? Throw away to?

Seriously people its a stupid topic,.

I agree Guru Ji is everywhere, but we aint that stage, and we are a LONG way away from that stage but that dnt mean we cnt have a pic. But then that wud contradict the purpose of what you sayin yeh, coz if Guru Ji is everything then the picture is him too. No point in making mountains out of mole hills, for the sake of doing something for 2min. Im not ritualistic and this pracitse is not ritualistic, its called making sure you dont do beadbi.

Correctly so, the images we see are not what Guru Ji looked like, its someones imagination, but if that imagination has helped SO many people, then in my opinion, nothing wrong with it.

WJKK WJKF

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"Think about it, a picture is inspirational, if it wasnt then WHY do we have them?"

I don't know ask Sobha singh...We run into problems because in another thread people were saying the Gurus were God, and you say pictures are not being worshipped, trust me people matha tek to photos..go to punjab, people wake up in the morning and bow to pictures of gurus...watch bend it like beckham, it's not a sikh film but many if not most "sikhs" live this way, where they pray before a picture of Guru Nanak...

"Thats Gurus Image. Dont matter if its Not Bani or Guru Ji, but still show just a fraction of respect to the fact its an Image of Guru Ji. "

Funny how a faith which preaches worship of nirankar, the formless Lord is concerned about images...

Ok let;s look at a present day problem with pics...the VHP said last week in amritsar that they are going to put pics of Guru Gobind Singh ji in all mandirs in India...They also said they are going to put saroops of SGGS in mandirs, the sikhs are fighting this, protecting the saroops of SGGS has been taken up but now sikhs are going to have to fight for pics of Gurus as well...if we didn't have pics of Gurus our faith would never have to fight such dumb things...

When Gurbani says worship baani, worship the shabad, get inspiration from Shabad Guru, why do we do these things?

How come the billion Muslims in the world never needed a pic of their prophet?

with all the patit Sikhs and Sikh girls becoming Muslims, how many people have your pics helped?

Pics of shaheeds represent spirit of the panth, but pics of Gurus is doing a lot of harm..

oh well....you say sikhs don't worship pictures then what are we gonna tell the world when pictures of Gurus are forcibly taken from mandirs by singhs with kirpans? Pics can be hung on a wall by any faith, why can't mandirs have pics of gurus? keeping SGGS out of mandirs is easy to defend but good luck fighting for your photos....

[Ikomkar]

the most impressionable time is when you are a child, if you teach your children Sikhi by pictures of Gurus you have done years of damage.  When shabad Gurus is our Guru, how will Sikhs who have been taught with pictures of Gurus get over pictures and be attached to Shabad Guru SGGS?  I have been to a few Sikh camps and most children say we have ten Gods....It's all Hindu-mat..Hindus have pictures of debis and evtas, we have our colorful pictures of Gurus...we say we only believe in Shabad Guru:

isKhu sbdu ipAwirho jnm mrn kI tyk ] (320-5, gauVI, mÚ 5)

sikhahu sabad pi-aariho janam maran kee tayk.

O Sikhs, love the Word of the Shabad; in life and death, it is our only support.

muK aUjl sdw suKI nwnk ismrq eyk ]2] (320-5, gauVI, mÚ 5)

mukh oojal sadaa sukhee naanak simrat ayk. ||2||

Your face shall be radiant, and you shall find a lasting peace, O Nanak, remembering the One Lord in meditation. ||2||

As Harmeet singh and ikomkar have stated, thes epictures are nothing to sikhs, because we worship Nirankaar through Baani...Baani is our Guru, not some pic.  How do you people know that is what the Gurus looked like?  I doubt Guru nanak was some fat jolly looking man, for God sakes he walked all the way to Mecca and baghdad! What if someone guessed what you father looked like and drew a picture, would you say that is my father's pic?  You want to meet the Gurus, do darshan of SGGS.

Today pictures, tomorow statues..people will say the statues remind us to be good sikhs....You will never find any pictures of Prophet Mohammad in Islam, but our faith..geez..we're pretty close to idol worship, i know some of you say we don't worship pictures, but then why are you afraid to throw them out?  Do you think the pictures have powers in them, are they the embodiment of naam?  Can you get amrit from the pictures?  Do the pictures teach you Gurbani?  They are just paint and paper probbaly made by non-sikhs in the first place....

Photoah da khera shado te SGGS le larr lago.  Otherwise Sikhs have  a weak argument that they are not Hindus....

108181[/snapback]

WJKK WJKF

Well said Mann Kaum, I totally agree. Victory belongs to GOD

[Ikomkar]

Pictures ?!

.. this topic comes back like once ever so often .. but eventhough the topic started didnt mean it that sense .. it always gets converted into one ..  :doh:

.. pictures = worshipping >>> NO !!!

.. pictures = inspiration/education >>> YES !!!

bus.. dats it ... end of story .. simple as it is ..

btw.. ikomkar .. just wondering about your name .. just curious .. why is it that and not ikONKAR .. !? (no harm intended just want to know .. )

bhul chuk maph!

108190[/snapback]

MIS TYPED, THATS ALL. IT SHOULD BE IKONKAR AND NOT IKOMKAR - THANKS