Is Goi The Only Culprit?

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

GOI of India is responsible and the Sikh fight is aginst the gov't, however interesting though that 900 million Hindus in India have yet to speak out aginst injustice to Sikhs....especially hindu punajabis who passed out ladoos after darbar sahib was attacked...nobody hates hindus but hindus are yet to lend their hearts to sikhs fighting for justice.

The question is not about sikhs not having a heart, the question is for the majority hindus.  After darbar sahib was attacked how many thousands of hindus were massacred by mobs in PUnjab?  Yeah that's what i thought.

How many sikhs were slaughtered after <admin-profanity filter activated> indira was sent to hell, 10,000 in five days.  Who has lost compassion?  How many people have been punished for killing 200, 000 sikhs, none!  who has lost compassion?

110462[/snapback]

Do you people even read the posts or do you just have your pre-composed bias ready to type awat when you see the word Hindu mentioned on a sikh forum?

Ok let's examine the post again:

Raju: "Are you saying that no hindus were killed in punjab during the 80s ??"

Post: After darbar sahib was attacked how many thousands of hindus were massacred by mobs in PUnjab?

Ok I was talking about mass organized mobs of sikhs after the attack like in Delhi so read carefully.

Naamstang: "sorry if it sounded harsh but i m frequent reader on this forum for almost 6 months on this forum. I see few people on here have complete bias, double standards.

bad mouthing 900 million hindus is example of that. "

Post: GOI of India is responsible and the Sikh fight is aginst the gov't, however interesting though that 900 million Hindus in India have yet to speak out aginst injustice to Sikhs....especially hindu punajabis who passed out ladoos after darbar sahib was attacked...nobody hates hindus but hindus are yet to lend their hearts to sikhs fighting for justice.

nobody hates hindus but hindus are yet to lend their hearts to sikhs fighting for justice.

Ok since when is sasking why 900 million hindus haven't spoken up against GOI killing is hindu bashing?! Come on your joking right?! It si not logical to ask why 900 million voters can't keep murderers out of public office? Also please read the post because your talking about double standards well your just typing about what you assume people to believe rather than what is actually posted.

Typical.

Fateh.

[sewak sikh]

WJKKWJKF

WELL WELL WELL !

I THINK THIS IS BEING BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTIONS

BEFORE GIVIN ANY REPLY

SEE REHATNAMA :

"AAN DHARAM DUNINYA MEY JETE

NIND KARE NA KABHOO TETE".

SIKH NU HUKAM HI NAHI KE KISI WI DUJE DHARAM DI NINDA KARE

TE HUKM ADOOLI(DISOBEYANCE) HI PAAP HAI.

YES MY HEART ALSO PIERCED WHEN I 1ST SAW PHOTOS OF AKAL TAKHT &DEAD BODIES OF OUR SIKH BROTHERS AFTER 84 MASSACRE .

BUT TIMES HAVE CHANGED AFTER 1984. SINCE THEN(I MUST ACCEPT) SIKHS HAVE GAINED MORE RESPECT IN THE WORLD

MANY PEOPLE(INC. ME) R STILL IMPRESSED OF CLASS PERSONIFED PERSONALITY OF SANT BABA JARNAIL SINGH JI KHALSA BHINDRAWALE.

THE MOST IMPRESSIVE BEING THAT HE TOOK IT NOT TO ANY ORGANISATION BUT KNOCKED A STRAIGHT PUNCH IN THE FACE OF GOI .BUT BABA JI NEVER DISRESPECTED ANY HINDU U CAN LISTEN BABA JI IN THEIR OWN VOICE IN A VIDEO ON NEVERFORGET84.COM

HE EVEN BUILT A SHIV MANDIR.(CAN LISTEN)

WAHT I WANNNA SAY IS THAT INSTEAD OF DISRESPECTING OTHER RELIGIONS

WHY NOT UNITE OUR BROTHERS OF PUNJAB WHERE:

1. TREND OF TRIMMING IS AT UTMOST NOW

2. ALCOHOL/DRUGS HAVE REPLACED TEA / COFFEE OF THE YOUTH

3. GIRL CHILD KILLING IS HIGHEST

4. RELIGION CONVERSION IS TAKIN PLACE IN MANY PINDS DUE TO POVERTY

SO NOW IS THE TIME FOR ACTION RATHER USING OUR ENERGIES HERE LETS PLEDGE TO INSPIRE PATITS TOFOLLOW SIKHI . BECOZ DON'T EXPECT MUCH FROM SGPC WHERE DHARAM IS A MERE DHANDA

BHUL CHUK MUAF!

GOD BLESS

CHAT NAAM DAY AND NIGHT

WJKKWJKF

[buddasingh]

I might well be crucified for saying this on the forum but even with my rudimentary knowledge of history I can recollect General Dyer who was the murderer of Jallianwala Bagh killed 20,000 people in one evening. The British committed countless atrocities on the Sikhs yet many on this forum are shamelessly sitting in UK. how should one decipher that ??

General Dyer was a protestant Christian...so how come today Christians are your brothers and you are sitting in their countries ??

What a load of utter rubbish. To compare the British and their Raj to the last 20+ years of tyrannical Brahmin India is a complete joke.

Firstly about 500+ people died as a result of the Jallianwala Bagh Massacre, where then did you get that ridiculous figure of 20,000.

In general the British did there fair share for Punjab and Sikhs, with great advancements of agriculture taking place. Sikhs in the UK are the most successful ethnic minority in Britain, that including the Whites.

The only countless atrocities I remember is the murder of 100,000+ Sikhs since the early 80's. Today we face a different kind of war in Punjab, our History, Religion, People (Drugs & Alcohol) and Economy is being killed, this is the direct result of Government policies that are aimed at eradicating the Sikhs as an independent nation.

Another thing I would like to say this that I am sick and tired of all these people that comment that the militants were not popular or supported in Punjab. What the hell do these people know about the rural Sikh people, NOTHING! These bhapa they meet in the cities that are neo-Sikhs that have mixed marriages with their Hindu counterparts (one brother Sikh and the other Hindu) and they are the "Sikhs" who claim to love India en mass.

KHALISTAN ZINDABAD.

110574[/snapback]

Malwi part of what you say is a repeated theme which is an insult to sikhi. Leave your racist caste c#$ out of it please. If you must start being technical about lineage, your guruji's were much closer to being 'bhapa' than being jatt. Of course this is irrelevant other than to shock your musty caste pride.

There have been so many who have gave their lives to sikhi. I personally know the stories of those, NOT RURAL, who put their head on a platter to give up everything for the panth, ended up spending the majority of thier lives in jail cells still unknown to the world and holding in the pains of their tortures, while others beat their chests, collected donations, and made speeches... only for you to come along and reduce things to caste labels.

[Malwai]

Malwi part of what you say is a repeated theme which is an insult to sikhi. Leave your racist caste c#$ out of it please. If you must start being technical about lineage, your guruji's were much closer to being 'bhapa' than being jatt. Of course this is irrelevant other than to shock your musty caste pride.

There have been so many who have gave their lives to sikhi. I personally know the stories of those, NOT RURAL, who put their head on a platter to give up everything for the panth, ended up spending the majority of thier lives in jail cells still unknown to the world and holding in the pains of their tortures, while others beat their chests, collected donations, and made speeches... only for you to come along and reduce things to caste labels.

Did you actually bother reading my post in full or did you feel your inner inferiority complex coming out when you saw the word bhapa???

You show your intelligence and stereotyping by assuming I am a Jatt, did I say I was a Jatt?? However if you would like to know I am a Jatt and I am very comfortable with saying it, as it is my ethnic background which I can not change.

Now let me break down what I did say for your brain (or lack of it) to understand:

Another thing I would like to say this that I am sick and tired of all these people that comment that the militants were not popular or supported in Punjab.

Ok which bit did you not understand or have offence with??? By "these people" I mean Hindu commentators who portray this lie.

What the hell do these people know about the rural Sikh people, NOTHING!

Yes, what do Hindu commentators know about rural Punjab and it's people??

These bhapa they meet in the cities that are neo-Sikhs that have mixed marriages with their Hindu counterparts (one brother Sikh and the other Hindu) and they are the "Sikhs" who claim to love India en mass.

This is the part I believe that touched the nerve? Well the truth hurts. Now let me explain the context in which I said this. These Hindu commentators interact with Sikhs based in the cities on whom they base their opinions on regarding support for the militants. These same bhapa for a FACT have no problem with marrying Hindus of the same "caste". This is undeniable, you only have to look at various matrimonial sites, on the same note, you will never find a Jatt Sikh even considering a Hindu Jatt for marriage. There lies the gulf in mentality and culture. This is not the case for all urban class Sikhs, however it is the majority that accept this neo-Sikh culture.

Now that leads to asking the question what have I said that is offence or racist?? I stated the truth, and I will continue to do so even if that means stepping on other peoples toes.

[kds1980]

waheguru ji ka khalsa

wahegur ji ki fateh

atleast we bhapa's have preserved the sikhi in keshadhari form

jat sikhs of punjab have already become monay. we never

give preference to caste like jats.you give preference to caste thats why there is a site jattworld.com.as far marriages are concerned no urban sikh like to marry

a hindu.

bhul chuk maaf

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

hmmm...shall we change the thread to, are Bhapas the culprits?"

I'd just like to say that Satwant Singh and Beant Singh who killed Indira <admin-profanity filter activated> gandhi were not jatt, Sukha nd Jinda were not jatt. I'll tell you who is jatt, KP Gill, Brar that dog, Badal, Beant Sio the former CM of PUnjab, Ajit Sandhu that dog SSp from Taran Taaran who committted sucide like a coward because his crimes were exposed...

anyways I come from a jatt baclground and have noticed that Sikhs killed Sikhs mostly. However I will agree that Sikhs in delhia nd the cities which are called bhapa are marrying Hindus in large numbers, khatri sikhs, arora sikhs, etc I don't believe in caste but the matrimonials in newspapers are proof of this. There should be no caste in our religion in the first place but many sikhs still are drwoned in this stuff. The truth does hurt.

anyways hope we can unite one day under kesri nishan sahib.

[dhan_dhan_sikhi]

My dear sikh brothers and sisters

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Its hurting to find the use of word "Bhapa" at this very good web site.I request Malvai veer to use Urban Sikh instead of Bhapa.

I come from a jatt sikh family and was a clean shaven illogical over proud jatt dude some time back.I took amrit 1 month back.Presently the only thing I can associate myself in this world is Khalsa Panth.I have had experiences of living aside both Urban sikhs in delhi and some "typical" jatt dudes in Punjab and abroad.

If some sikh(urban,jatt,chinese,black,white whatever...) is lucky to have the grace of his Satguru,his cultural(caste) effect on his personality and way of life doesnt matter at all.

I had the honour of knowing a bihari converted Singh Sahib Ji who was one of the most fine and committed KHarrkoo and gave up everything he had for the kaum including his life.

But not all sikhs are lucky to achieve that level in their life and their cultural and family upbringing has a significant effect on their life.

IMPORTANT:=Caste doesnt effect ones way of life but culture does.So when I use urban sikh,it will mean any sikh(jatt or non jatt) brought up in places like delhi,kanpur etc and when I will use jatt,it will be synonimous to a "typical" Punjabi guy.

Jatt guys are more straighforward,honest and higly UNPREDICTABLE.You can make a jatt dude to be General Suhbeg Singh or a clean shaven over proud senseless drinker and smoker.If jatt dudes are shown right sikhi way,they can do great things due to their ability to non-hypocratical,ability to take stand,and love for punjabi and punjab and sikh panth.

In case of urban sikhs,its sad to say that they dont have same love for Gurmukhi,many urban sikhs speak hindi at homes too which is sad as 1 or 2 generations back they used to speak punjabi.Many of them are not that straightforward,some of them call themselves hindus, and many of them are non-khalistanis(this thing i really dislike).They are economically one of the most well off and hence sacrifice the need of Panth and compromise.

But they have lots of positive points as they do very good seva of guru ghars and maintain them very well.They dont cut hair that easily as jatt dudes do.

Exceptions exist in all the cases.

KHALISTAN ZINDABAD

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"In case of urban sikhs,its sad to say that they dont have same love for Gurmukhi,many urban sikhs speak hindi at homes too which is sad as 1 or 2 generations back they used to speak punjabi.Many of them are not that straightforward,some of them call themselves hindus, and many of them are non-khalistanis(this thing i really dislike).They are economically one of the most well off and hence sacrifice the need of Panth and compromise.

But they have lots of positive points as they do very good seva of guru ghars and maintain them very well.They dont cut hair that easily as jatt dudes do.

Exceptions exist in all the cases."

Yeah i have noticed this too. I don't kow why they don't speak punjabi at home? anyways i agree with ya.

[buddasingh]

Malwi part of what you say is a repeated theme which is an insult to sikhi. Leave your racist caste c#$ out of it please. If you must start being technical about lineage, your guruji's were much closer to being 'bhapa' than being jatt. Of course this is irrelevant other than to shock your musty caste pride.

There have been so many who have gave their lives to sikhi. I personally know the stories of those, NOT RURAL, who put their head on a platter to give up everything for the panth, ended up spending the majority of thier lives in jail cells still unknown to the world and holding in the pains of their tortures, while others beat their chests, collected donations, and made speeches... only for you to come along and reduce things to caste labels.

Did you actually bother reading my post in full or did you feel your inner inferiority complex coming out when you saw the word bhapa???

You show your intelligence and stereotyping by assuming I am a Jatt, did I say I was a Jatt?? However if you would like to know I am a Jatt and I am very comfortable with saying it, as it is my ethnic background which I can not change.

Now let me break down what I did say for your brain (or lack of it) to understand:

Another thing I would like to say this that I am sick and tired of all these people that comment that the militants were not popular or supported in Punjab.

Ok which bit did you not understand or have offence with??? By "these people" I mean Hindu commentators who portray this lie.

What the hell do these people know about the rural Sikh people, NOTHING!

Yes, what do Hindu commentators know about rural Punjab and it's people??

These bhapa they meet in the cities that are neo-Sikhs that have mixed marriages with their Hindu counterparts (one brother Sikh and the other Hindu) and they are the "Sikhs" who claim to love India en mass.

This is the part I believe that touched the nerve? Well the truth hurts. Now let me explain the context in which I said this. These Hindu commentators interact with Sikhs based in the cities on whom they base their opinions on regarding support for the militants. These same bhapa for a FACT have no problem with marrying Hindus of the same "caste". This is undeniable, you only have to look at various matrimonial sites, on the same note, you will never find a Jatt Sikh even considering a Hindu Jatt for marriage. There lies the gulf in mentality and culture. This is not the case for all urban class Sikhs, however it is the majority that accept this neo-Sikh culture.

Now that leads to asking the question what have I said that is offence or racist?? I stated the truth, and I will continue to do so even if that means stepping on other peoples toes.

110961[/snapback]

Malwi

I don’t know you, but I do know this type of ignorance and consider it the scourge of sikhi. The type of attitude in both your posts, in fact reinforced by your second post… although prevalent, has no place in sikhi. Your honesty about where you stand, although offensive, is appreciated.

Would it stun you to know that there are urban people who are just as racist as you are and with an arrogant pride think as low, or lower of you than you think of them? I refuse to adhere to any such labels, but it might interest you that I don’t fit into the label you use.

Apart from the stunted response right after yours stereotyping rural people, I absolutely agree with the risky yet intelligent posts subsequent to yours that are critical of urban and rural people. BUT, they do not make the same point as you whatsoever. Your point is never made beyond contempt, judgment and childish reply… and sadly you have much company amongst many claiming sikhi.

Do you have similar sweeping character descriptions expressed in contempt for other groups of people? Say, blacks, jews, women? Do any defining characteristics exist? If so what is a responsible manner of referencing them?

What propagates ones ethnic background as Jatt? This c*&$ about Jatt being an ethnic background worthy of acknowledgment for Sikhs is complete rubbish. It is constructed by and for those who left sikhi or those who can’t reconcile that the Jatt pride instilled in them by their parents was a CASTE based RACIST belief, no different than Brahmin pride or what Hitler drew upon as a base. For anyone who is remotely aware of the foundations of ‘sikh Jatt’ pride in a global society, it defies sanity to suggest that it is not CASTISM or RACISM or anti-sikh!

Name calling is unbecoming Malwi. If I may attempt to shed some light, all of us are inclined to be racist and sexist. If we realize this, only then we can attempt to counter our weakness. Being free of racist attitudes is not a logical exercise or a decision made once, but a process that constantly challenges all of the subtle racist and sexist messages around us.

As human beings it is necessary for us to categorize in order to make sense of the world around us. However, it takes an ongoing heightened awareness as to where the line is drawn between distinctions and racist assumptions. There are so many assumptions we grow up with and have reinforced for us. Our minds are comforted by the world falling into the schemas, often subconsciously adopted at young age and at times too readily accessible. Schemas are so powerful, that our brains visualize things that are not present, we create memories that never happened, let alone ascribe characteristics to people.

For every racist schema there is for the urban person, there is a reciprocal racist schema. urban, sly, rural, dim-witted; --- urban: marrying outside faith, rural: strict belief in caste and marriage on caste basis --- urban: devalue punjabi & speak hindi; rural: devalue kes & de facto rural hindus… There may be some remote basis to some aspects of this, but IT IS IRRATIONAL TO SUGGEST TRAITS as some hate filled evaluation of higher or lower values as compared against the other!

The lecture is necessary because racism, castism, & sexism just below the surface amongst western educated sikhs who consider themselves beyond these things is alarming! On a positive note, there are also young sikhs who are shunned amongst ‘their own’ for making no bones about telling them to shove their caste cr$# or sexist cr*% where the sun don’t shine when they make derogatory references to groups of sikhs. Rather than regress into the dark ages and lay any claims or acknowledgments to caste using the pathetic pretence of “ethnicity”, Sikhs should be forerunners in promoting thought about race and ethnicity globally.