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A Singh/Kaur should be tyaar-bar-tyaar correct? That means Guru Sahib can call on us for our head or our seva at any given moment. Do you think you are tyaar bar tyaar standing naked in the shower with not even a kacherra to cover yourself up?

Are you tyaar-bar-tyaar when your kakaars are off? Simple question. No.

Prabhu mentioned that only some Jathas keep this rehit. Among these Jathas are Akhand Kirtani Jatha, Damdami Taksal, All Nihang Dals and I know that at the Takhats (SGPC maryada) they tell you that you cannot be apart even during a shower. Which Jathas are there that allow you to separate from your kakaars?

I think it boils down to an issue of love. These are gifts given to us by our Guru. Do you love that gift enough to keep it with you at all times and at all costs?

Bhai Amarjeet Singh Babbar was stripped of his kakaars and after that point, despite the agonising torture he faced, he refused to even drink a drop of water until his kakaars were returned to him. He was martyred during the torture. Jathedar Gurdev Singh Kaunke when he was arrested, was ordered to take off his kakaars for interrogation. He refused. Swarn Ghotna, the interrogator dreaded across Punjab for being a butcher, put his hand on Jathedar jee's gatra to take it off. Jathedar Gurdev Singh grabbed him by the throat and said, "You dog of the Brahmins! You don't know the value of these to me!". It took 9 officers to remove Jathedar Sahib and he was then tortured to death.

These Singhs gave their lives but wouldn't be separated from their kakaars by their own will. And here we are taking off our kakaars to go for a swim or take a shower.

Who showed the love?

Taking off our kakaars is a kurehit. It isn't a bujjer kurehit, but it is indeed a kurehit. Willingly taking them off requires that we present ourselves before the Punj Pyaaray for forgiveness.

Countless Gursikhs have found a way to keep their kakaars at all times including work, sleep and bathing. Are you saying your situation is so unique that you can't manage? I have slept with my kirpan for 8 years. Haven't injured myself yet.

You can follow the example of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, Baba Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa, Jathedar Gurdev Singh Kaunke or Bhai Amarjeet Singh Babbar.


You can follow the advice of some guy posting on an internet forum.

Your choice.

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Being stripped of your kakkars is far different than respectfully removing them during a shower or other activities which might bring disrespect. How do you wash yourself when wearing kacheras in the shower? How do you keep your kirpan from getting rusty? How do you keep your kirpan from accidentally shaving the hairs on your naked body?

I assure you nobody will strip me of my kakkars. You know nothing of my love for my kakkars. If you did you would understand my perspective. You don't have to agree, but you would understand.

We're all just "some" guy or girl posting on the internet. It doesn't matter if you are familiar with me or my practices, or the practice of people who were tortured to death. There's no need to compare my love against somebody else's. I was not tortured to the point of the death, but I've defended myself against extreme situations where me and my faith was threatened. It is the same love in those instances as those who didn't make it through.

The point is, hear both sides, don't allow somebody to influence you in ways that you will later regret. I would surely regret showers and sports and sleeping if I was forced to wear something that injured me during those times. These are so common that it could quickly lead to resentment of my 5 k's. I'm not about to put myself in a situation where they become ritual and meaningless and hurtful to me.

What's the difference between wearing a gatra at night and having your kirpan at arms length?

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vaheguroo jee ka khalsa vaheguroo jee ke fateh

I hav also been sleepin with my kirpan for ages nufin happeped to me. Also wen showering it can be wrapped around your head If u are washing your hair you can hav it round you waist and put a nother 1 on afta wen bathing coz the gatra mite b wet

Bhul Chauk maaf

vaheguroo jee ka khalsa vaheguroo jee ke fateh

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Although my "some guy" remark wasn't directed specifically at you Prabhu, it is for anyone that says kakaars can be removed.

When bathing, a Sikh will first wash his/her hair. The kirpan doesn't get wet and the keski is tied to the waist. After washing the kesh, the keski is tied back on and the kirpan is tied to the dastaar. Doesn't really cause any problem. Even old rehitnamas say that a Sikh should not remove the kacherra at once and should be changed one leg at a time. Washing with it on is a question that is so obviously answered, I'm not going to bother replying to it.

Prabhu Singh, these Singhs I mentioned would not give up their kakaars under any circumstances. They could have just said "oh well, I have no control on the situation, let it go" But they didn't they chose death over it. I really doubt "It is the same love in those instances as those who didn't make it through." if someone is taking off their kakaar to bathe.

If your kirpan is on a gatra or if it's nearby when sleeping makes a BIG difference. I can easily walk up to you when you're asleep and take your kirpan away. A kirpan on a gatra cannot be taken away without disturbing the person wearing it. The person with his kakaar is "tyaar bar tyaar" for any call to battle but the person lying there without it is NOT.

Question: when at darbar sahib, do you see people leaving their kirpans by the side of the sarovar? No. They wear them. Why? Because they know it is wrong and will look bad on them if they do that (even if they do it at home).

Rehitnama References:

Bhai Nand Lal Jee's Tankhanama states;

"He who abandons the Guru and follows another, who sleeps at night naked from the waist down, whoh engages in intercourse while naked, or who bathes while naked [let him be regarded as a grevious offender" verse 42.

Rehitnama Bhai Desa Singh

"Sustain within your man, compassion, obedience to your dharam and tap. Never be separated from your kachh or your kirpan. In a fight never turn your back or flee from the field of battle" verse 15.

Bhai Daya Singh Rehitnama:

This is for after bathing, how to change the kacherra:

"For changing his kachhera, he should have alength of cloth measureing 2.5 gaz" (what would be the need of this if he could just take it on or off. All Singhs who keep their kacherra at all times need this cloth to change their wet to dry)


"If a Khalsa bathes without a kachh or with his kes uncovered instead of h aving a turban properly tied, he should incur a tankhah..." (verse 53)

There is no doubt that Guru Sahib's precious kakaars cannot be removed willfully by a Sikh. If they are, he should appear before the Punj Pyaaray for a tankhah.

Who would willfully want to be apart from Guru Sahib's gifts?

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These Sikhs can write what ever they want, but they certainly are NOT Guru Gobind Singh, who could have given the same instructions but didn't.

They are even going into the specifics of how long our kacheras should be. What if it is an inch off? The people who follow their rehit better be really careful. If one thread unravels and it is less than the prescribed length they better fix that right away.

I'm being sarcastic because that is the level of fanaticism some people will go to.

I'm not saying what others do is wrong, I don't mind if others shower with everything on, I don't know how they wash the areas covered by the kachera but I guess that's for them to figure out.

You can doubt my love for my kakkars all you want, but you can never know unless you are me.

It is real easy to remove anybody's kirpan from them when they sleep. whether they're wearing a gatra or not. Trust me in my life I've seen a lot of pranks when people are sleeping and removing things is one of them. If my kirpan's under my pillow it will be a lot harder.

If I sleep with or without the gatra my kirpan will be at an arm's length. I'm I to consider my gatra as sacred too? What if I decide not to wear a gatra? I know some Sikhs who wear their kirpans tucked into their cummercussen. Can you not see that every perspective is different?

I don't think Guru Gobind Singh wished for our kakkars to be hinderances. I follow the GURU. People can write any rehit they want. I've been called Bhai ji before, should I write bhai Prabhu ji's rehit? If I were to use strong words my rehit would read "Do not do anything that brings disrespect to your kakkars. Do not clean your body while wearing filthy kacheras. Remove the kacheras while bathing and put clean kacheras on afterwards. Avoid submerging your kirpan in water. DO NOT allow your kirpan to injure yourself."

I'm never going to change my practices, I've asked the Guru too many times for assurances and I always receive them.

I would liken this issue to the way people bow to the Guru. Everbody does it differently, but they all do it out of Love. Some people have written instructions for how to do this, and some have argued this point. Why? What does it do for anybody?

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I'm sure you could write "Bhai Prabhu ji's rehit" but who would care?

Do you even know who Bhai Nand Lal was? How about Bhai Daya Singh? Were these Sikhs on par with you? Where has Guru Gobind Singh written any rehit? You said if he wanted he could have said this but didn't. Where did Guru Gobind Singh write any rehit at all? The rehit by Bhai Nand Lal (the acclaimed poet of Guru Sahib's darbar who's writings along with Bhai Gurdas's are the only ones accepted to be sung in Darbars according the Sikh rehit maryada) and Bhai Daya Singh (first of the Punj Pyaras) are the closest we have to what Guru Gobind Singh wanted rehit to be. But because of your sheer IGNORANCE you don't recognise who these Sikhs were nor do you really care.

Rehit is something that is passed down through the Khalsa. Every jathebandi believes that kakaars are not separable from our bodies. Do you think all of them had it wrong but you've now got it right?

I've felt this a number of times reading your blog but was reluctant to say anything until now. Your words reek of ego. "I know what Sikhi is" ; "I'm never going to change my practices". How far are you going to get in Sikhi while proclaiming "I'm right everyone else is wrong" and "I know it all!".

Not far at all brother. As a Sikh you learn from other Sikhs. If a Sikh learns of a new rehit he jumps to take it on. He does't say "I'll never change".

For your information (not that you care I guess) a kacherra is changed every time a bath is taken be it once a day or 5 times a day. It can never get "filthy" unlike taking it off and then putting it on over and over again day in and day out. This actually forces you to change it every time you bathe. How is it filthy? If you ask me, that person is filthy who takes his/her filthy kacherra off and after a bath puts it right back on. One leg is taken out and then put in the new kacherra and then the other so that the Sikh is never apart from it. If teh kirpan HAPPENS to get wet, it is immediately dried and never allowed to rust.

It's one thing to say "yeah, that's rehit but I can't follow it at this time" and another to say "I don't do it so it CAN'T be rehit".

Open your mind.

But if you continue to feel you're smarter and know better than Bhai Nand Lal and Bhai Daya Singh jee, what can I say. Keep living in your delusion I guess...

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I'm sorry that you felt the need to personally attack me. Yes I have ego, I never said I conquered the five vices. Neither did I say I don't recognize the contributions of Bhai Nand Lal or Bhai Gurdas. If Bhai Nand Lal's authority was to be the law for all Sikhs, Guru Gobind Singh may have made him the 11th Guru rather than the Siri Guru Granth Sahib. As evidenced on another discussion Baba Siri Chand was also shown respect by Guru Gobind Singh, should I follow his rehit?

My mind is very open, I never said anybody was wrong for practicing what they do. But other close-minded individuals cannot accept that other Sikhs practice things differently. You can describe my sheer ignorance, but what you believe to be my ego is not confidence in myself, but confidence in the Guru. I have repeatedly asked and prayed to the Guru for guidance. I have always received hukams that confirm my current practices. There is no need to get upset. Will I hurt you with my lifestyle?

I should mention that the shabad "waho waho Gobind Singh" which is sung in many Gurdwaray is written by a different Bhai Gurdas.

It is pitiful, when I cannot even air a different opinion without being attacked.

Sometimes I use strong words when being attacked. When people attack me and say things with authority as if it is the only way, I also make statements with authority. Though I do not say it is the only way. What I mean is that I ALSO know Sikhi, you can guess at my level of ignorance, but I have hardly revealed anything to you about what I do or do not know. You are assuming I don't know of the Sikhs of the past. You can assume a lot of things about me, but several have already been wrong.

Please do not put quotes around statements that I did not make, this shows total lack of respect and irresponsibility on your part:

"I'm right everyone else is wrong" and "I know it all!".

I never said anything so stupid as this.

I'm not arguing with anybody about this issue, I'm just saying there's more than one way to live as a Sikh, and there are more important issues than this. Just understand one more thing: If I could safely wear my kirpan when swimming or playing sports I would, but I have yet to find a way. Do you want me to wear a symbolic kirpan? Is that what you want? What is the point of arguing?

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You're right there is no point in arguing. If you're convinced you are doing something that is right, then how can I convince you otherwise?

The difference between Baba Sri Chand (not a Khalsa) and a Bhai Nand Lal and Bhai Daya Singh and Bhai Desa Singh is huge. They were Khalsa Sikhs who were close with Guru Gobind Singh jee. If they all concurr that taking off kakaars is not right, I think they must have a point. This is only supplemented by the fact that this practice is followed by most amritdharis even today.

If you take off kakaars, I guess that's your choice. But it's not really an ok choice in terms of rehit. It's wrong in that light.

Most Sikhs have found a way to wear their kirpans when swimming and playing sports. I think maybe a better and more productive approach would be to ask HOW they can be worn during these activities not if.

Sorry if I came off as too harsh. I personally at one point was an amritdhari who took off his kakaars and realised later that it was wrong. I feel very strongly about this issue.

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