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i m a moorakh Lost Soul ji...so i m not going to give any "logical" answers here !!

all i feel is that most of the sangat here just FOLLOWS GURU'S ORDERS !!

AND THAT IS WHT A SIKH SHLD DO !!

when Guru Nanak Dev Ji ordered Bhai Lehna (Guru Angad Dev Ji) to eat the meat of a dead body , was Bhai Lehna shocked ? did a doubt came to his mind that y Guru Ji said so, whts the reason ?

NO... NEVER.. he just humbly accepted each and every word of Guru Ji.

That makes absoulutely no sense at all. Your basically telling everybody to be brain dead and follow orders without thinking. Why the hell would you want to follow something if you dont understand it? How can you have "sharda" when you dont understand what your pledgeing yourself to??? You cant believe in a thing if you havent questioned it and understood the reason behind it!

well that was the "real shraddha" of bhai Lehna. and thats wht Guru Ji wanted. now if u wanna gain shraddha with understanding and following orders of Guru JI with thinking .. then its upto u. even both sons of Guru Nanak Ji had shraddha for him, but whenever Guru Ji used to tell/order them something they wud think y he said so but never is the case with bhai Lehna !!

now according to "logic" that makes bhai Lehna Ji ..brain dead !! no.gif

as far as eggs go... i dont care whether we eat fertilized/unfertilized eggs !!

if Guru Ji said NO to it ..then so shall it be !!

dont ask for evidence when did Guru Ji told not to eat eggs specifically !!

by Guru Ji , i mean the Panj Pyareh !!

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i m not an amritdhaari.. and i avoid 99% non-veg ..but since i live alone and a student.. i do sometimes eat eggs like in cakes !! no.gif

but if i do take amrit in the near future ... i wud die rather going against the REHIT !! (may guru ji give me that opportunity and strength!!) pray.gifpray.gif

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"Now, that would lead us to conclude that in terms of daya, or compassion for animals, free range eggs are the most vaiable for consumption. However, many would protest around the afct, again highlighted byy animal welfare societies such as PETA taht in free range hens, issues such as some hens being bullied by more dominant ones etc exist (the pecking order argument etc, that the keen biologists on this thread will know more about, unlike my unfortuntely uneducated self). Again, more information on this can be found on animal welfare sites such as PETA, alongside information regarding the mistreatment of animals in the dairy industry."

Thats a complaint against nature. If they were in the wild they would have the same tendencies, theyre animals thats what they do, we cant go and tell them "dont bully that hen." :lol:

"And now onto the interesting part of the post, I came across an article in the British Newspapers around a year ago, where Tesco were selling some specail breed of hens eggs, which if I remember correctly have a different colour to normal hens eggs. These eggs were free range. Now, one chappie brought these eggs, and somehow deduced it had been fertilised (can't recall how), and as such hatched it and voila, out came a special funky coloured hen."

I find that hard to believe. Say the egg was fertilized, it would have been collected proccessed and shipped, all in the cold, if the egg does not recieve warmth, (a hen sitting on it), the fetus will not develop. So after having the eggs sitting in the firdge for who knows how long, and travelling all that distance, this man brought it home and hatched it, wow. A hen lays an egg every 18-26 hours, regardless is he was mounted. About the semen question, I apologize I thought maybe you were just asking a silly question. Semen ejaculates from a males <admin-profanity filter activated>, and egg from a females ovary. Thats a big difference, and yes if you want to eat semen go ahead! After it enterers the open air the tiny microscopic sperm in it is killed pretty quickly, so I never said dont eat rooster sperm, just thought it was a silly question, thats all. :umm:

133719[/snapback]

The bullying is natural, yes! Thats why I said according to daya and terms of compassion this would be the most acceptable eggs to be eating!! BUt remember, perhaps in the wild we do not ahve the situation of these chiken ina defined area etc, so where they are protected from carnivores (to some extent lol) on a poultry farm, they are not so well guarded against each other, as perghaps in the wild they would run away from the big bad bully chickens- I dunno, I'm not an expert, so can't say.

Now, the story is true, will find that article for you as soon as I can. I know I have a print copy somewhere, will get looking. If I cant scan it (Have no scanner) will post you a copy so taht you can verify the details, or will try get someone else to scan it for you. (unfortunately am rather busy with my fifth grade studies at the moment, so could be a while)

BTW regarding the rooster semen, I never said I wanted to eat it, I was suggesting it was rather disgusting, so is it so hard to see why some see eating eggs equally as disgusting???

Again, its down to personal choices, some would say yes, others no, just as some may delight in feasting on rooster juices!

Also, is the sperm killed really quick?? the fluid in the semen would maintain them for some while would they not? (Again, I'm not a biologist, so couldnt tell you).

By the way, I love the respectful way you debate on forums, very admirable indeed.

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"Also, is the sperm killed really quick?? the fluid in the semen would maintain them for some while would they not? (Again, I'm not a biologist, so couldnt tell you)."

Yes the sperm is killed very quickly, hurry and make it to the sixth grade so you can learn it :lol:

By the way, I love the respectful way you debate on forums, very admirable indeed."

I hope you love it as much as I loved your sarcasm :umm: Lighten up relax, take a deep breathe and say OOOMMM! I can see it got to you cause you keep repeating it, lol sorry bhai sorry! About the story, hope to see it, but hey miracles do happen. As for Brother moorakh, you are alot more intelligent than me, you posted that sakhi, and yes I agree with that. However I am not at the level, so I do need reasoning in order to strengthen my belief :umm:

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>>>>>>

cow produce milk for its calf not for humans.for centuries hindus befooled people

that cow is a mother and it is producing milk for humans.strange that some sikhs still beleive in it

>>>>>>

If that's the case, then it seems you think our Guru Sahibs were fooled as well? 

Guru Sahib drank milk.  There is no doubt about it. 

If you think our Guru Sahibs can be fooled, then I don't think you can even be a Sikh.

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No doubt Guru Ji treated their animals with total respect I dont think our Guru Ji undertook intensive breeding of cows or water buffaloes to produce animals like the ones we see today at the majority of dairies. These animals suffer from many problems as a result of the way they have been bred.

These cows are virtually always pregnant in order to satisfy the commercial demand for milk.

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"Also, is the sperm killed really quick?? the fluid in the semen would maintain them for some while would they not? (Again, I'm not a biologist, so couldnt tell you)."

Yes the sperm is killed very quickly, hurry and make it to the sixth grade so you can learn it :lol:

By the way, I love the respectful way you debate on forums, very admirable indeed."

I hope you love it as much as I loved your sarcasm :umm: Lighten up relax, take a deep breathe and say OOOMMM! I can see it got to you cause you keep repeating it, lol sorry bhai sorry! About the story, hope to see it, but hey miracles do happen. As for Brother moorakh, you are alot more intelligent than me, you posted that sakhi, and yes I agree with that. However I am not at the level, so I do need reasoning in order to strengthen my belief :umm:

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What did you do? look at your own with a microscope mr science buff??? lol- just messing bro, and take it easy, I don't need to OOOMMM lol, I just kept repeating it for jokes. Sorry if my humour is of poor quality, maybe they'll teach me some better material in the sixth grade.

Take it easy bro, we're both not really the most serious of people judging by this thread. Anyways better be off now, gotta pray for a miracle to make sure i get into 6th grade, but hey, they do happen innit.

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final attempt:

egg vs. milk or anything else is a question of function.  Not what function *I* take from it, but the function it was specifically created for.

Milk:  no function except food.  Produced by the cow for food.  It cannot be used for any other purpose.

Egg:  no function intended except reproduction.  Not intended as food.  If you choose to eat it, you are creating your own purpose for it, not what it was designed for. 

If you go with your logic, it opens the doors to legitimately eating/drinking all kinds of things like urine, blood, and yes, even meat. 

But this is all logic.  Fact is that all Gursikhs in the past and now say that eggs are not acceptable for a spiritual diet and are in fact the equivalent of meat.

133704[/snapback]

Milk : food for calfs. but humans also consume it.

Unfertilised egg - no reproductive use and it can be used for food

When people think about eggs they always think there is a chick inside. This is far from reality. Others think you are on about Egg bank.

As to the Panj Piare telling you not to eat egg, why are they disrespecting the 1980 Hukumnama ?

The veggie diet is a new concept in Sikhi. If you visit the Sikhs in Afghanistan and Pakistan (who have escaped from the brahmin influences the Sikhs in India have absorbed) you would see that eating meat is not a taboo for them.

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marrying in the family and wearing salwar kameeze is also not taboo for them. Is this also authentic Sikh tradition?

Re. your "cow suffering" point: I've already said that it's unacceptable and a lot of Sikhs chose organic for that very reason.

As for the hukumnama: I'd prefer the Guru Hargobind Sahib hukumnama saying not to go near "maas machhee" than one issued in 1980.

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Milk : food for calfs. but humans also consume it.

Unfertilised egg  - no reproductive use and it can be used for food

When people think about eggs they always think there is a chick inside. This is far from reality.  Others think you are on about Egg bank.

As i asked before... how people know if the egg is fertilised/unfertilised when a hen lays it off? Considering that unfertilised egg doent have life.... what if you eat a fertilised egg(which surely has reproductive use) thinking its unfertilised......

This unfertilised egg ideology is similar to "jhatka" concept..... since guruji banned kutha (interpreted as muslim way of butchring), which was the ONLY kind available till somebody coined the term "Jhatka"........

As to the Panj Piare telling you not to eat egg, why are they disrespecting the 1980 Hukumnama ?

As i posted before hukumnama of sri guru hargobindji, telling sikhs to stay away from maas- machi..... then why akal thakt disrespected guruji's hukumnama in 1980?

The veggie diet is a new concept in Sikhi.  If you visit the Sikhs in Afghanistan and Pakistan (who have escaped from the brahmin influences the Sikhs in India have absorbed) you would see that eating meat is not a taboo for them.

My dear friend sikhs in india are not only influenced by bhramins but to muslim pirs as well..... i'm sure if you go and see sikhs in afghanistan and pak you would see meat eating is not a taboo for them, but so would be some other non sikh activites they might be indulging in.....

Also as you stated earlier that cows are constantly made preganent so as to get milk from them.......By that process we are NOT KILLING a creature to satisfy our taste buds..... a cow would have gotten pregnent every now and then...... so its not that it is being tortured and killed..... also people who keep them take good care of them and feed them properly.

Bhul chuk maaf

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Milk : food for calfs. but humans also consume it.

Unfertilised egg  - no reproductive use and it can be used for food

When people think about eggs they always think there is a chick inside. This is far from reality.  Others think you are on about Egg bank.

As i asked before... how people know if the egg is fertilised/unfertilised when a hen lays it off? Considering that unfertilised egg doent have life.... what if you eat a fertilised egg(which surely has reproductive use) thinking its unfertilised......

This unfertilised egg ideology is similar to "jhatka" concept..... since guruji banned kutha (interpreted as muslim way of butchring), which was the ONLY kind available till somebody coined the term "Jhatka"........

As to the Panj Piare telling you not to eat egg, why are they disrespecting the 1980 Hukumnama ?

As i posted before hukumnama of sri guru hargobindji, telling sikhs to stay away from maas- machi..... then why akal thakt disrespected guruji's hukumnama in 1980?

The veggie diet is a new concept in Sikhi.  If you visit the Sikhs in Afghanistan and Pakistan (who have escaped from the brahmin influences the Sikhs in India have absorbed) you would see that eating meat is not a taboo for them.

My dear friend sikhs in india are not only influenced by bhramins but to muslim pirs as well..... i'm sure if you go and see sikhs in afghanistan and pak you would see meat eating is not a taboo for them, but so would be some other non sikh activites they might be indulging in.....

Also as you stated earlier that cows are constantly made preganent so as to get milk from them.......By that process we are NOT KILLING a creature to satisfy our taste buds..... a cow would have gotten pregnent every now and then...... so its not that it is being tortured and killed..... also people who keep them take good care of them and feed them properly.

Bhul chuk maaf

133826[/snapback]

Cows in dairy farms barely get 2 or 3 months before they are impregnated again. Can you imagine a woman having to endure such things ?

Also the level of intensive breeding has led to very bad health problem for cows. See my post in the Subway thread (general section) whereI have detailed the problems.

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Milk : food for calfs. but humans also consume it.

Unfertilised egg  - no reproductive use and it can be used for food

When people think about eggs they always think there is a chick inside. This is far from reality.  Others think you are on about Egg bank.

As i asked before... how people know if the egg is fertilised/unfertilised when a hen lays it off? Considering that unfertilised egg doent have life.... what if you eat a fertilised egg(which surely has reproductive use) thinking its unfertilised......

This unfertilised egg ideology is similar to "jhatka" concept..... since guruji banned kutha (interpreted as muslim way of butchring), which was the ONLY kind available till somebody coined the term "Jhatka"........

As to the Panj Piare telling you not to eat egg, why are they disrespecting the 1980 Hukumnama ?

As i posted before hukumnama of sri guru hargobindji, telling sikhs to stay away from maas- machi..... then why akal thakt disrespected guruji's hukumnama in 1980?

The veggie diet is a new concept in Sikhi.  If you visit the Sikhs in Afghanistan and Pakistan (who have escaped from the brahmin influences the Sikhs in India have absorbed) you would see that eating meat is not a taboo for them.

My dear friend sikhs in india are not only influenced by bhramins but to muslim pirs as well..... i'm sure if you go and see sikhs in afghanistan and pak you would see meat eating is not a taboo for them, but so would be some other non sikh activites they might be indulging in.....

Also as you stated earlier that cows are constantly made preganent so as to get milk from them.......By that process we are NOT KILLING a creature to satisfy our taste buds..... a cow would have gotten pregnent every now and then...... so its not that it is being tortured and killed..... also people who keep them take good care of them and feed them properly.

Bhul chuk maaf

133826[/snapback]

Cows in dairy farms barely get 2 or 3 months before they are impregnated again. Can you imagine a woman having to endure such things ?

Also the level of intensive breeding has led to very bad health problem for cows. See my post in the Subway thread (general section) whereI have detailed the problems.

133954[/snapback]

Veerji can you answer my other questions too......

fateh!

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