Freedom In India

[buddasingh]

First of all as someone stated before, try governing ONE Gurudwara before you try governing a Country.

Gurdwaras are being run by not Gursikhs but by monay people who want to "modernize" Sikhi. Of course we need to learn politics and everything but that in no way means that there is no need for Khalistan.

yeah keep blaming the monay. This is funny .

Gand soo called amritdhari sikh paun taie blame monaya taie..lol...

who organized drinking party in lemingtong gurdwara? was it mona? who scandal thousand of thousands of dollars in khalsa credit union and took advantage of sikh sangat?? was it mona? who scandal 50,000 dollars from galok at the dixie gurdwara's?? was it mona? who commits adultery, drink sharab and still makes it to commitee member(tut tut- hansra khalistani)?? were they monai? who get their kachera's gillae and have two nagar kirtan instead of one in toronto because of gurdwara's and ego competation?? are they mona's??

Think before you speak mate, you already showed your subtle hatred towards monay's kinda reflects how soo called khalistani katar vadi sikhs will treat monay in khalistan?

Then sikhs these days think, how they are any different from talibans? yes yes scream out- kafirs kafirs kafirs kafirs monaye get out from khalistan.

anyway i m disguisted. Good luck.

134678[/snapback]

I'd say you've missed the boat on this one, but that's if you were near the water.

How does any of the above if true make it OK for a person to be a representive of beliefs which s/he violates?

You think about that. While you do so, here's another aside for you to chew on. One of the examples you give above is of malik. Your earlier post had this to say.

"...just another way of making money take- Khalsa credit union trust in BC for example you got vadaie khalsa like- malik taking advantage of innocent families and frauding money from them in the name of the panth and khalistan."

I do not know Malik, nor am I a fan of his. You speak of "scandal and thousands of thousands of dollars". Information is part of the public record. The information reported by the papers is misleading and what you say is not reported anywhere and factually incorrect and defamatory. Those providing info to Ficom on the most recent allegations are anonymous. There is doubt whether Ficoms decision would stand on appeal to the court.

Look up the legal definition of defamatory Namstang. Once you have done this state your precise source for your assertion that innocent families have had money taken from them. Then consider whether you wish to retract this here or risk further action to have information subpoenaed to obtain the proper name of a defendant 'namstang' for a defamation suit.

I think we get a bit excited and take things too far. I state the above so you realize that defamation is serious thing. Malik is a person who was tried on the flimsiest of evidence and declared not guilty by a judge. Apparently he lives amongst a vibrant community of Sikhs in BC. You are entitled to be critical of anyone as I am. However you could be held personally accountable for sensationalistic inventions even on a discussion group. When addressing the topic, it's wise not to let your imagination run.

and once you're finished do answer the question above. "---How does any of the above if true make it OK for a person to be a representive of beliefs which s/he violates?"

[Bijla Singh]

Gand soo called amritdhari sikh paun taie blame monaya taie..lol...

who organized drinking party in lemingtong gurdwara? was it mona? who scandal thousand of thousands of dollars in khalsa credit union and took advantage of sikh sangat?? was it mona? who scandal 50,000 dollars from galok at the dixie gurdwara's?? was it mona? who commits adultery, drink sharab and still makes it to commitee member(tut tut- hansra khalistani)?? were they monai? who get their kachera's gillae and have two nagar kirtan instead of one in toronto because of gurdwara's and ego competation?? are they mona's??

Those who don't follow Rehat Maryada of Guru Ji are all monay. Those who look like Sikhs are the worst. I don't hate anyone but it is you who lose sensible thinking when it comes to Khalistan. Your posts clearly show hatred towards Khalistanis. People never write a single word against GOI but if one person is killed by Sikhs you all have to write long posts about 'terrorism' and 'immorality'. Guru Rakha.

[N30S1NGH]

Gand soo called amritdhari sikh paun taie blame monaya taie..lol...

who organized drinking party in lemingtong gurdwara? was it mona? who scandal thousand of thousands of dollars in khalsa credit union and took advantage of sikh sangat?? was it mona? who scandal 50,000 dollars from galok at the dixie gurdwara's?? was it mona? who commits adultery, drink sharab and still makes it to commitee member(tut tut- hansra khalistani)?? were they monai? who get their kachera's gillae and have two nagar kirtan instead of one in toronto because of gurdwara's and ego competation?? are they mona's??

Those who don't follow Rehat Maryada of Guru Ji are all monay. Those who look like Sikhs are the worst. I don't hate anyone but it is you who lose sensible thinking when it comes to Khalistan. Your posts clearly show hatred towards Khalistanis. People never write a single word against GOI but if one person is killed by Sikhs you all have to write long posts about 'terrorism' and 'immorality'. Guru Rakha.

134686[/snapback]

Why call them monay? who not call them malesh?

There is no reference in gurbani about monay but yes malesh and patit, bemukhs.

Do you have any idea how your post can be fully mis-interpertated by mona's(cut-hair) on this forum? stop making this as another monay vs thakedars amritdhari sikhs.

[N30S1NGH]

People never write a single word against GOI but if one person is killed by Sikhs you all have to write long posts about 'terrorism' and 'immorality'. Guru Rakha.

off course, you never heard of saying of wise people- first clean your own house instead of cleaning others and besides two wrong does not make it right. Killing of innocent lives regardless whatever the cause is , whosoever doing it is wrong.

I don't want nishan sahib as a flag which is drenched in innocent people's blood in khalistan. do you?

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Khalsa was never meant to have peace of land because Khalsa is Chakarvathi Fauj.

134275[/snapback]

So I take it that Banda Singh Bahadur was wrong to create a Khalsa Raj in East Punjab between 1710-1716?

Misls were wrong to take over areas of Punjab from the Mughals and then defend it against the Afghan invaders like Abdali?

Maharaja Ranjit Singh should not have ruled Punjab and called his rule as Sarkar Khalsaji?

[N30S1NGH]

Khalsa was never meant to have peace of land because Khalsa is Chakarvathi Fauj.

134275[/snapback]

So I take it that Banda Singh Bahadur was wrong to create a Khalsa Raj in East Punjab between 1710-1716?

Misls were wrong to take over areas of Punjab from the Mughals and then defend it against the Afghan invaders like Abdali?

Maharaja Ranjit Singh should not have ruled Punjab and called his rule as Sarkar Khalsaji?

134701[/snapback]

Khalsa raj you talked about was different than khalistan you guys are aiming for. Khalsa raj by Banda Singh Bahudar and Sher-e-Punjab Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji appreciated diversity in Sikhi, khalistan gives no signifance to flourish beautiful garden of sri guru nanak dev where diversity is there in form of different flowers all unique in its own way. Instead khalistan or khalistanis will provide acid rain to people who follows different mindset/approach to sikhi which was quite acceptable in Khalsa Raj we had in puratan times. Examples like- kharkho sikhs killing monay because they couldn't fullfill promise to grow their kesh and kharkho sikhs killing senior members of old nihangs just because they drank sukha in moderation.

[LostSoul]

Shut the hell up and stop calling out for more needless murder.

134664[/snapback]

If your sensibilities don't want to be party to the discussion then feel free to leave the thread. "Shut the hell up" is not really in the spirit of a sikhsangat discussion group.

I did not notice someone calling for murder here lostsoul! If you have deciphered such information here perhaps we should contact authorities so they can obtain search warrants for sikhsangat records to follow up on your acute murder sniffing abilities OR simply charge you with obstruction of justice or equivalent provisions of your country. Perhaps you want to retract the suggestion that someone is calling for murder.

To address your question regarding injustice against Sikhs in India affecting us, my family's life has been affected in unspeakable and unchangeable ways due to loved innocent ones being tortured and jailed.

Should I not care because I may not be in the punjab? Those that differ in distance, citizenship or culture are somehow less deserving of justice is an eerie stance. Ever heard of a man by the name of Adolf?

134677[/snapback]

Is not the taking up of arms going to lead to death, and should I dare say it, but maybe a innocents murder! Some people here are trying to incite another civil war where, in the previous one thousands of people were killed. I send my condolences for the tragedies against your family, but does that mean now after many years some one elses family should also have to suffer the same difficulties yours has, because of a personal vendetta? I did not say do not get justice, but why not go the way of peace? Why call for more death, to avenge death? Are you now trying to parallel Hitlers Germany to modern India? If someone here can call me a "agent of india", lol, I cant respond? Bilja Singh take control of the Gurudwaras first, live in the present not the past, currently the Guru ghars are going through extreme difficulties, why not call attention to what is currently happeing right in your own community? When have I ever said I love or hate India? You know nothing about me or my stance, I look down on violence, Ive realized it accomplishes nothing, you my friend should watch your mouth, and not label "agents" so quickly, starting to sound a bit paranoid... child.

[Bijla Singh]

No Sikhs ever supports violence. Thank you for your suggestion that Gurdwaras need to be run properly but that still doesn't prove that there is no need for Khalistan. Guru Rakha.

[buddasingh]

Shut the hell up and stop calling out for more needless murder.

134664[/snapback]

If your sensibilities don't want to be party to the discussion then feel free to leave the thread. "Shut the hell up" is not really in the spirit of a sikhsangat discussion group.

I did not notice someone calling for murder here lostsoul! If you have deciphered such information here perhaps we should contact authorities so they can obtain search warrants for sikhsangat records to follow up on your acute murder sniffing abilities OR simply charge you with obstruction of justice or equivalent provisions of your country. Perhaps you want to retract the suggestion that someone is calling for murder.

To address your question regarding injustice against Sikhs in India affecting us, my family's life has been affected in unspeakable and unchangeable ways due to loved innocent ones being tortured and jailed.

Should I not care because I may not be in the punjab? Those that differ in distance, citizenship or culture are somehow less deserving of justice is an eerie stance. Ever heard of a man by the name of Adolf?

134677[/snapback]

Is not the taking up of arms going to lead to death, and should I dare say it, but maybe a innocents murder! Some people here are trying to incite another civil war where thousands of people were killed. I send my condolences for the tragedies against your family, but does that mean now after many years some one elses family should also have to suffer the same difficulties yours has, because of a personal vendetta? I did not say do not get justice, but way not go the way of peace? Why call for more death, to avenge death? Are you now trying to parallel Hitlers Germany to modern India?

134767[/snapback]

Lostsoul,

Regarding the reference to Adolf… Suggestions that we can’t care for people in other parts of the world because they differ from us is absurd if not eerie. People have spoken up about inhumanity in Rwanda, Bosnia, Iraq etc.. If you said to those people “shutup unless you live there or are willing to pack your bags and go there”, they would think you’re mad. If you said that you not Iraqi so you should not care, you are asking us to forget the fact that all are human.

With respect, yours is a leap in thinking regarding violence. You suggest that if one believes in sovereignty for Sikhs, they advance picking up the nearest weapon and shooting people. This would be no different than me suggesting that you and others here want to promote torture and murder by the state. It simply does not make rational sense. A rational stance should not require this type of sensationalistic tarring.

I appreciate your gesture regarding my family. However, I was simply replying to Namstang and others who suggesting that we should not be affected if not in punjab. HOWEVER this is not about my family or your family. It is about human beings of any family facing injustice. There are innumerable families who may never rest peacefully. I don’t feel sorry for myself, rather sikhi has taught me maintain a sense of justice for all. I do not think that I need to spell out the fact that in promoting self-governance for sikhs, there should be the highest possible regard for all, regardless of background based on fundamental universal values of sikhi, consistent with universal human values.

No one is forcing you to be part of seeking justice. If you think that the world is fine or Punjab is fine and your voice is not required then that is your choice. There is no shortage of many young sikhs who promote self-governance for sikhs that are amongst the most educated, liberal sikhs. They are also almost inevitably involved in seeking justice for people who have nothing to do with sikhi. Their idea of khalistan does not arise from a typical punjabi caste based self-glorification thinking, rather they have an innate sense of dignity and justice with a critical mind to decipher topics beneath the media’s gloss of sludge.

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Khalsa was never meant to have peace of land because Khalsa is Chakarvathi Fauj.

134275[/snapback]

So I take it that Banda Singh Bahadur was wrong to create a Khalsa Raj in East Punjab between 1710-1716?

Misls were wrong to take over areas of Punjab from the Mughals and then defend it against the Afghan invaders like Abdali?

Maharaja Ranjit Singh should not have ruled Punjab and called his rule as Sarkar Khalsaji?

134701[/snapback]

Khalsa raj you talked about was different than khalistan you guys are aiming for. Khalsa raj by Banda Singh Bahudar and Sher-e-Punjab Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji appreciated diversity in Sikhi, khalistan gives no signifance to flourish beautiful garden of sri guru nanak dev where diversity is there in form of different flowers all unique in its own way. Instead khalistan or khalistanis will provide acid rain to people who follows different mindset/approach to sikhi which was quite acceptable in Khalsa Raj we had in puratan times. Examples like- kharkho sikhs killing monay because they couldn't fullfill promise to grow their kesh and kharkho sikhs killing senior members of old nihangs just because they drank sukha in moderation.

134762[/snapback]

You need to get off the forum and read a couple of good books on Sikh history and maybe then you might be able to take part in a worthwhile discussion. Diversity is Sikhism? I think your sanatan thinking is coming out here. As I wrote on another thread there is no such thing as 'diversity in Sikhi', none of the sampardhas you keep going on about were created by the Gurus. There was none of your diversity in Sikhism during the times of Banda Singh Bahadur, just a division between Khalsa into Bandai and Tat Khalsa. Same with the Misl period. Your diversity in Sikhi came about only during the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.