I Am Willing To Be Khalistani.

[jagjit_waheguru]

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Pyare jio, thank you for your well balanced response. Ultimately you have just proved my point.

You have come on this forum, which is read by kids who never even saw the period of 1978-1992. Then you asking them for accountability for the actions of people that most of them have never met. Every Sikh is perfectly happy to be accountable for the likes of Bhai Fauja Singh, Sant Jarnail Singh and Bhai sukhdev Singh Babbar and like Gursikhs. But I am the first to admit I find Dr Jagjit Chohan, zaffarwal, Dr Sohan Singh, and many gurdwara pardans are highly dubious characters. If we say their actions are representative of khalistan, then equally are thier actions representative of Sikhi? Clearly we can only judge Sikhi according to its idealogue, and not by the actions of some characters.

My point is a leader can only inspire, no man can control. You ask for leaders to control a nation, yet yourself, you cannot provide the same accountability for just your messageboard. Please think about it.

Then, just the mention of your messageboard, has put you in a huff and a puff. So you ask for accountability for a nation, but you are unable to control your own mind. Please think about that one more...

Lets just all do as much seva with the high morals that you have said, and try and control our minds to build a better world.

Please do not refer to me as jathedar. I have been offered many, but accepted none. They have no spiritual benefit.

What you do on sikhawareness is your business. Whatever you sow you will reap, just like us all. I have no reason to judge you, I just used it as an example. However I would state that the kind of hatred you show to us, despite the fact you do not know us, and have never met us, is more of a hinderance to you, than us. I have enmity to you. I read what you write sometimes, and just wonder how an intelligent young lad can come up with this stuff. You are a sort of X-file. maybe that would be a good name for your next ID. :lol:

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

P.S. sorry to hear about your family. Members of my family were killed aswell by Police. It hurts doesn`t it. Especially when they were so young.

[KH4L1$T4N1]

lostsoul veer i am 16 yrs old. how old r u? you think the hollywood movies are effecting my mind, but i dont think so because the hollywood movies i watched i  can count them on my finger tips. everything, all the  rage, the anger, the revenged mind came from the 1984 killings of innocent people and my uncle was one of them who was killed in a fake encounter and i can never forget the look on my grandma's face when she talks about him. ok. i hope i answere your question.

135553[/snapback]

Khalsa force, was your Uncle a Kharkoo and if so can you tell us his name and what gruop he was from

[N30S1NGH]

Gurfateh Jagjit Singh,

Pyare jio, thank you for your well balanced response. Ultimately you have just proved my point.

You have come on this forum, which is read by kids who never even saw the period of 1978-1992. Then you asking them for accountability for the actions of people that most of them have never met. Every Sikh is perfectly happy to be accountable for the likes of Bhai Fauja Singh, Sant Jarnail Singh and Bhai sukhdev Singh Babbar and like Gursikhs. But I am the first to admit I find Dr Jagjit Chohan, zaffarwal, Dr Sohan Singh, and many gurdwara pardans are highly dubious characters. If we say their actions are representative of khalistan, then equally are thier actions representative of Sikhi? Clearly we can only judge Sikhi according to its idealogue, and not by the actions of some characters.

I have made this post not by looking for answers just from kids but wide range of age groups. I do beleive there are some senior singhs here who were with the movement. Also i don't find anything wrong asking kids this listed of questions i posted either..what if this blood shed starts again..these questions i posted and rules of dharam yudh by sri guru gobind singh ji are very very relevant to everyone not just older generation but young lads on here as well..after they will carry the torch fwd don't you think? if they couldn't even answer these questions then we are just seeking for blood for blood(innocent).. i can fairly assume this young lads who pretent to be internet kharkhoo are poisoned and brainwashed by fanaticism. Also if young singhs like gupt_dasandass who is very young i beleive (for his knowledge) can answer them sensibly and why others cannot?? we got people like bikramjit (he is 32 yrs older i think) trying to justify killings by just saying - oh it used to happen in misl...killing of innocent cannot be prevented in the war..he himself being older singh failed to mention many dharam yudhs fought by Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji.. what kinda reflection he is putting fwd to young people here???

Lets just all do as much seva with the high morals that you have said, and try and control our minds to build a better world.

very good advice.

What you do on sikhawareness is your business. Whatever you sow you will reap, just like us all. I have no reason to judge you, I just used it as an example. However I would state that the kind of hatred you show to us, despite the fact you do not know us, and have never met us, is more of a hinderance to you, than us. I have enmity to you. I read what you write sometimes, and just wonder how an intelligent young lad can come up with this stuff. You are a sort of X-file. maybe that would be a good name for your next ID. .

I don't hate anybody. Hate word itself is very strong, don't you think? Premia, if you wish you can send me pm with your pictures..i ll do meditation on your face given by akaal... lol.

you see what I dislike is "twisted parchar" tat khalsa does ie- anti ragmalla, pro-keski, anti-sant mandali, anti-lineages(damdami taksal , nirmale, udasi, nihangs, seva panthis). You guys promote black white sikhi by using names of great saints like sant baba attar singh ji mustanewale, bhai vir singh ji. When one of us try to show you picture of sant baba attar singh ji maustanewale - free from kakar then you guys don't have anything to say because it challenges your beleif...you tend to bring bhai vir singh ji name to promote your tat khalsa maryada but when we bring truth from his own books like- bhai vir singh ji ate meat at end of his life because of health reasons then you guys don't have anything to say, because it challenges your black and white sikhi, you sing anti-sant bhajans all day long on your forums but when we bring quotes from bhai randhir singh ji books how he himself called baba jawala singh ji harkhowale as "sant jawala singh ji" in his books then you guys don't have anything to say because it challenges your beleif..you create fusses about dharna's, katha's that they are not according to "Gurmat" but when one of us comes along show how gurmat sangeet maryada is not even followed in samagams, how Waheguru mantar gets distorted in the course of singing fast simran then you got nothing to say because it challenges your beleifs, you promote how bibai's should wear keski on while doing kirtan but when one of us shows dhan dhan bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji himself sitting with two bibia's without keski and singing kirtan you got nothing else to say because it challenges your beleif- black/white sikhi... instead you label other "nangs".

When i see my fellow human regardless of labels or different beleifs in trouble.. it's my duty to help and defend them.. so where is then hate you talking about? I only hate ideology not people... you promote what i dislike and i ll promote what you dislike...whoever parchar is according to gurmat advait sidhant will get success...so i guess time will tell...without guru's kirpa nothing is possible...i leave it at that.

[jagjit_waheguru]

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Pyare jio, clearly veer ji , you have a number of issues with a number of people on a number of issues. I think at some point you have to accept that there is a significant majority of sikhs that do not agree with you on a number of subjects. Why do you wish to force them to do so, by saying if they do not, then they are doing "twisted parchaar".

In my experience, I have seen alot of very lax Sikhs, and some very strict ones. I am sort of in the middle, a person who tries to concentrate on the simple and important things and tries to get them right. Sometimes I have seen strict singhs do things that I found strange, unnecessary and wrong. But I seen lax singhs do things that I find icomprehensible.

I think I would rather see my sangat as people who are strict with some assols (principles) than Sikhs going to gigs, having girlfriends, drinking booze, eating meat, and doing all this in bana.

I also notice that you have been unable to stick the subject about control and accountability from leadership. I still ask you to name one incident where a young khalistani leader of name, has killed any innocent?

As far as your little rant about various issues. I would probably come into the category of those people who you state do twisted parchaar. I wish to take issue with that. I and many young sikhs who form the majority, nowadays follow Sikhi which is based on gurbani and factual research. We reject Sanatanism, Hinduised Sikhi, "easy sikhi", and feel that we do not need to apologise for not accepting what many percieve as RSS sikhi.

However I would ask you, if you still think that you have validity in your viewpoints. Then probably the most strict in rehat, message board is tapoban. Start a thread on each issue that you deal important and debate it on there, with the very people who you claim are wrong.

But please try and be factual, rather than ranting. Let me remind you of a few threads.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=15293&hl=

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=14906&hl=

You have once again mentioned this whole bibi thing. Are you really saying the Jyot is a liar. He/she has presented photographic evidence.

The problem is everytime we get past the rants, and get to to the nitty gritty with facts. You do not seem to be able to provide any.

I understand if you had some bad experience with some strict sikhs. I have had some, and others may have aswell. But I do not thing having a vendetta against strict sikhs just because they do not except easy sikhi, with kissing, and the rest is the answer.

Just try to understand, why you have such issues.

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

[N30S1NGH]

Gurfateh Jagjit Singh,

Pyare jio, clearly veer ji , you have a number of issues with a number of people on a number of issues. I think at some point you have to accept that there is a significant majority of sikhs that do not agree with you on a number of subjects. Why do you wish to force them to do so, by saying if they do not, then they are doing "twisted parchaar".

Signifcant majority of Sikhs don't agree sampardhai parchar of Sikhi or as you grossly generalize as easy Sikhi? Where did you get this number? May be you got this number by looking at forgein sikhs in forgein countries who either follow new age sikhi or follow tat khalsa Amristar singh sabha, bhausari singh sabha sikhi. Tat Khalsa got it's support 80-90 years ago. Before that only parchar which was done for 180 some years was via Sampardha's. Great warriors, scholars, saints, Matyrs like- baba deep singh ji, baba gurbakash singh ji, baba sahib singh ji bedi, baba bir singh ji nurangabad, baba maharaj singh ji, baba sahib singh ji kaladari, baba hanuman singh ji and many more. when they did seva, they did seva by rising above from their sampardha's they belong to and they did seva for Khalsa Panth but you cannot ignore these great people got their vidya from instituations(sampardha's) that Guru's created. Just how when we talk about shaheed bhai sahib fauja singh ji.. you cannot ignore the fact shaheed bhai sahib bhai fauja singh ji was inspired by akj jatha.

In my experience, I have seen alot of very lax Sikhs, and some very strict ones. I am sort of in the middle, a person who tries to concentrate on the simple and important things and tries to get them right. Sometimes I have seen strict singhs do things that I found strange, unnecessary and wrong. But I seen lax singhs do things that I find icomprehensible.I think I would rather see my sangat as people who are strict with some assols (principles) than Sikhs going to gigs, having girlfriends, drinking booze, eating meat, and doing all this in bana. 

Good to know.. I am also more towards in the middle rather than being lax singh. Just for record, I don't drink bhang, sharab or eat meat(mas) or go out in gigs, have girl freinds nor Nirmale samparda i lean towards beleif in such things. I m engaged. I don't wear Bana as in chola because I think bana is priceless ratan given by Guru's. I want to make sure if i m really worthy of it.

I also notice that you have been unable to stick the subject about control and accountability from leadership. I still ask you to name one incident where a young khalistani leader of name, has killed any innocent?

No young khalistani on here I don't think have killed any innocent but my questions is not if they killed an innocent or not but my questions are quite clear- If they were to become leaders - -what actions will they take as a leader against self proclaimed khalistan freedom fighter who across the line and become ruthless murders of innocent person in course of making khalistan because of unjustified offence caused by blind hatred? three choices were wrong in the orginal post.

As far as your little rant about various issues. I would probably come into the category of those people who you state do twisted parchaar. I wish to take issue with that. I and many young sikhs who form the majority, nowadays follow Sikhi which is based on gurbani and factual research. We reject Sanatanism, Hinduised Sikhi, "easy sikhi", and feel that we do not need to apologise for not accepting what many percieve as RSS sikhi.

Sanatan Sikh, Hinduised Sikh, Easy Sikhi that's your and ex-akj- Jagdeep invented terminology....Sampardha's i came across with- Taksal, Nirmale, Nihangs in Buddha Dal in India all name it "puratan Sikhi" instead of sanatan Sikhi. I thought you probably gathered that by now. Problem with you is you see sampardha's through Nihang teja singh /jagdeep singh version. As you know he may be a Nihang but he has no offical authority by other sampardha's to write about them.

an example: i decided to write about Akj and created an website. It's not a offical site of Akj, it's a third party source. Person who understands that will not take word by word as Gospel truth about akj because it's not offical site.

However I would ask you, if you still think that you have validity in your viewpoints. Then probably the most strict in rehat, message board is tapoban. Start a thread on each issue that you deal important and debate it on there, with the very people who you claim are wrong.

I would rather not to waste my further time going through forums. As i already told you, it's not the poster or hate monger or fanatic I have issues with, I have issues with ideology and methodology that new age sikhs and tat khalsa amritsar singh sabha, bhausaria singh sabha's follows

But please try and be factual, rather than ranting. Let me remind you of a few threads.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=15293&hl=

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=14906&hl=

Please re-read what i posted: I posted:

read bhai sahib orginal texts in punjabi. I wouldn't trust english translations..lot of chelas of sant, bhai sahib, baba in general have tendency of adding lot of "mirch masala" in course of translating.

That was general comment rather than specific type of comment targetting against english works/translations of bhai sahib randhir singh ji by premi singhs.

I understand if you had some bad experience with some strict sikhs. I have had some, and others may have aswell. But I do not thing having a vendetta against strict sikhs just because they do not except easy sikhi, with kissing, and the rest is the answer. Just try to understand, why you have such issues.

I have bad expereince with ideologies whether it's tunnel visioned or very laxed one and it's context. I have no issues with any sikh.

Also consider this as my last post. I am sorry to go off-topic but i felt i needed to clarify myself. Thanks for everyone who understood the relevance of dharam yudh rules by sri dasmesh pita ji and my questions and answer them honestly.

Gurfateh Ji

[sher-e-panjab]

Namstang i got a question for you, if possible please answer it. You say your willing to be khalistani, well what difference will it make, its not goin to give us our state overnight because we have you on our side is it?

[namg1]

isnt khalistan a state of mind??? ther is no room for politics in sikhi! khalistan is sum1 winning their mind not a country. it doesnt make sense to say we will have khalistan. gurus taught us to live like a lilly.(its a lilly isnt it?lol.i werent sure) We have to live with society and its maya bt we stand out from it. plus how can we rule a country. we can't even get on amougest ourselves.

sorry if ive sed anythin wrong.

'gursikha kee har dhoor deh, ham pappi be ghat pae'

bhull chuk maaf

wjkk wjkf

[KH4L1$T4N1]

isnt khalistan a state of mind??? ther is no room for politics in sikhi! khalistan is sum1 winning their mind not a country. it doesnt make sense to say we will have khalistan. gurus taught us to live like a lilly.(its a lilly isnt it?lol.i werent sure) We have to live with society and its maya bt we stand out from it. plus how can we rule a country. we can't even get on amougest ourselves.

sorry if ive sed anythin wrong.

'gursikha kee har dhoor deh, ham pappi be ghat pae'

bhull chuk maaf

wjkk wjkf

136107[/snapback]

Wagwan namg1

Firstly whats a lilly?

Secondly so all those hundreds of Sikhs who died fighting for Khalistan were fighting for a "state of mind". I have heard this ridiculous theory about Khalistan being a "state of mind" before and i would like to find out who made it? if you know please tell me.

Bhul Chuk Maf

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Guru Sahib left us with one Khalsa Panth or a bunch of brahmanified jathaybandis who have their own maryadas out of ego? Please remove my doubt.

[H4RPAL]

isnt khalistan a state of mind??? ther is no room for politics in sikhi! khalistan is sum1 winning their mind not a country. it doesnt make sense to say we will have khalistan. gurus taught us to live like a lilly.(its a lilly isnt it?lol.i werent sure) We have to live with society and its maya bt we stand out from it. plus how can we rule a country. we can't even get on amougest ourselves.

sorry if ive sed anythin wrong.

'gursikha kee har dhoor deh, ham pappi be ghat pae'

bhull chuk maaf

wjkk wjkf

136107[/snapback]

Did you mean lotus?