Importance Of Diva

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Jasdeep22 Ji!

You wrote "There is No Connection between Gurmat and Lighting up a Deeva as a religious practice." And "It is pure Manmat and we shud try spreading knowledge so that more poeple come to know abt it and this practice can be put to an end."

Please provide a reference from Gurbani to support your views. I will be thankful.

Balbir Singh

[jasdeep22]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Jasdeep22 Ji!

You wrote "There is No Connection between Gurmat and Lighting up a Deeva as a religious practice." And "It is pure Manmat and we shud try spreading knowledge so that more poeple come to know abt it and this practice can be put to an end."

Please provide a reference from Gurbani to support your views. I will be thankful.

Balbir Singh

141985[/snapback]

Dear All and Balbir Singh Veerji,

Lets say that a Lamp is lit for the pure purpose of providing light in darkness. Now in this case, u are not thinking about it as a ritual. You are purely thinking as a source of light so that u are able to read or do wotever u are working upon.

Now on the other hand, some one lights a Deeva in front of a Moorati, or in Gurdwara or Mandir or Akhand path purely thinking that I have to make sure that this Deeva shud not get diffused or shud be kept lit for ever. In this case one thinks it as a ritual. It is a kind of ritual started by Brahmans as a Puja of Agan Devta. Gurmat does not support any kind of Puja of any Devta or Devis. Gurmat only support Puja Akaal Ki.

Guru Ji Says:

"Poojo Raam Ek Hi deva" That one shud Worship only One the Almighty.

Now Guru Ji also dispels lighting of such Sansarik Lamps or Deevas coz those Deevas or lamps are not going to be permanent.

Deeva made of Mud may break, It can be put off by water, or wind etc. So Guru Ji has asked us to Lit the kind of Deeva which is Permanent and cannot be put off by anything.

Wot Deeva is that?? I have already mentioned that in my last post.

How do I support that it is permanent??? Here is Guru Ji supporting it:

This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Raamkalee on Pannaa 878

rwmklI mhlw 1 ]

raamakalee mehalaa 1 ||

Raamkalee, First Mehl:

surqI suriq rlweIAY eyqu ]

surathee surath ralaaeeai eaeth ||

Focus your consciousness in deep absorption on the Lord.

qnu kir qulhw lµGih jyqu ]

than kar thulehaa la(n)ghehi jaeth ||

Make your body a raft, to cross over.

AMqir Bwih iqsY qU rKu ]

a(n)thar bhaahi thisai thoo rakh ||

Deep within is the fire of desire; keep it in check.

Aihinis dIvw blY AQku ]1]

ahinis dheevaa balai athhak ||1||

Day and night, that lamp shall burn unceasingly. ||1||

AYsw dIvw nIir qrwie ]

aisaa dheevaa neer tharaae ||

Float such a lamp upon the water;

ijqu dIvY sB soJI pwie ]1] rhwau ]

jith dheevai sabh sojhee paae ||1|| rehaao ||

this lamp will bring total understanding. ||1||Pause||

hCI imtI soJI hoie ]

hashhee mittee sojhee hoe ||

This understanding is good clay;

qw kw kIAw mwnY soie ]

thaa kaa keeaa maanai soe ||

a lamp made of such clay is acceptable to the Lord.

krxI qy kir ckhu Fwil ]

karanee thae kar chakahu dtaal ||

So shape this lamp on the wheel of good actions.

AYQY EQY inbhI nwil ]2]

aithhai outhhai nibehee naal ||2||

In this world and in the next, this lamp shall be with you. ||2||

Awpy ndir kry jw soie ]

aapae nadhar karae jaa soe ||

When He Himself grants His Grace,

gurmuiK ivrlw bUJY koie ]

guramukh viralaa boojhai koe ||

then, as Gurmukh, one may understand Him.

iqqu Git dIvw inhclu hoie ]

thith ghatt dheevaa nihachal hoe ||

Within the heart, this lamp is permanently lit.

pwxI mrY n buJwieAw jwie ]

paanee marai n bujhaaeiaa jaae ||

It is not extinguished by water or wind.

AYsw dIvw nIir qrwie ]3]

aisaa dheevaa neer tharaae ||3||

Such a lamp will carry you across the water. ||3||

folY vwau n vfw hoie ]

ddolai vaao n vaddaa hoe ||

Wind does not shake it, or put it out.

jwpY ijau isMGwsix loie ]

jaapai jio si(n)ghaasan loe ||

Its light reveals the Divine Throne.

KqRI bRwhmxu sUdu ik vYsu ]

khathree braahaman soodh k vais ||

The Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas

inriq n pweIAw gxI shMs ]

nirath n paaeeaa ganee seha(n)s ||

cannot find its value, even by thousands of calculations.

AYsw dIvw bwly koie ]

aisaa dheevaa baalae koe ||

If any of them lights such a lamp,

nwnk so pwrMgiq hoie ]4]7]

naanak so paara(n)gath hoe ||4||7||

O Nanak, he is emancipated. ||4||7||

Now gurmukh pyareo, Guru Ji says that only such Deeva, the kind described in the Shabad is acceptable to Waheguru. So if only that kind of Deeva is acceptable to Waheguru, the sansarik deevas which are Lit thru out Akhand paaths and gurdwaras become mere rituals and nothing else.

Naam da Deeva Jalao ........ which dispels the darkness of agyanta.

Any Ways, Sikh Rehat Maryada prohibits any kind of Jyot, Coconut etc During Akhand Path. It is written in Sikh Rehat Maryada. Pity that we dont know wots is described in our Sikh Rehat Maryada.

Thanks

[Balbir Singh]

Satsriakal to all and Jasdeep22 Ji!

Thanks for the wonderful references from Gurbani.

Please let all know which of the Guru's Vaak from your posts is saying "There is No Connection between Gurmat and Lighting up a Deeva as a religious practice." And "It is pure Manmat and we shud try spreading knowledge so that more poeple come to know abt it and this practice can be put to an end."

--------------

Perhaps you want to say that you do not know anyone who has reached God by putting a lamp on. So everyone or at least Sikhs should not light a lamp on.

Are you sure that one may reach God by rejecting the use of lamps?

Please let all know if you have come across a person who got enlightened by rejecting Divas in Gurudwaras.

Your answer may be that only by doing Simran one reaches God Consciousness.

You may say this is true? Then rejecting a lamp or accepting it play a role anymore?

Are we able to instruct God to visit us the way we describe?

By the way I have found only praises for Divas in Gurbani.

Like the light of a lamp (diva) give us to recognize everything in darkness, O God! Give us Simran. So that we get the light to recognize Waheguru in all activities.

To get the inner lamp lit one does not need to blow off the clay lamps in outer worlds.

Love.

Balbir Singh

[Singhstah]

why light a joth when we have the greatest joth, Sri Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Mahraj!

[jasdeep22]

Satsriakal to all and Jasdeep22 Ji!

Thanks for the wonderful references from Gurbani.

Please let all know which of the Guru's Vaak from your posts is saying "There is No Connection between Gurmat and Lighting up a Deeva as a religious practice." And "It is pure Manmat and we shud try spreading knowledge so that more poeple come to know abt it and this practice can be put to an end."

--------------

Perhaps you want to say that you do not know anyone who has reached God by putting a lamp on. So everyone or at least Sikhs should not light a lamp on.

Are you sure that one may reach God by rejecting the use of lamps?

Please let all know if you have come across a person who got enlightened by rejecting Divas in Gurudwaras.

Your answer may be that only by doing Simran one reaches God Consciousness.

You may say this is true? Then rejecting a lamp or accepting it play a role anymore?

Are we able to instruct God to visit us the way we describe?

By the way I have found only praises for Divas in Gurbani.

Like the light of a lamp (diva) give us to recognize everything in darkness, O God! Give us Simran. So that we get the light to recognize Waheguru in all activities.

To get the inner lamp lit one does not need to blow off the clay lamps in outer worlds.

Love.

Balbir Singh

142086[/snapback]

Veer Balbir Singh Ji,

I think u gave the answer to your own question by saying:

"By the way I have found only praises for Divas in Gurbani.

Like the light of a lamp (diva) give us to recognize everything in darkness, O God! Give us Simran. So that we get the light to recognize Waheguru in all activities."

Bhaji the Deeva which got praises from Guru ji in Gurbani is NAAM Diva, SHABAD Deeva, and not the Clay deeva. Please search more and u will understand wot I am trying to say.

I dont know where I said that Sikhs shud not light any Deevas, YES u can light Deeva, but just like u Light a BULB or any other Light but NOT as a spiritual symbol as that wud like indulging in Karam Kaand and Sikhi is against such Karam Kaand.

and as I said, IT IS DESCRIBED IN SIKH REHAT MARYADA THAT LIGHTING DEEVA IS MANMAT. Read the Rehat Maryada PLEASE.

This answers it.

About the other questions u raised in ur post? I rather not answer them. They dont make any sense to me and I dont want to start a new debate on them.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Jasdeep22 Ji!

You wrote about lighting up a Deeva (lamp) "It is pure Manmat and . . . this practice can be put to an end."

And in this post you wrote "I dont know where I said that Sikhs shud not light any Deevas . . ."

Our Gurus never asked us to stop using Deevas in Gurudwaras.

Rather the Gurbani says AMDkwr dIpk prgwsy ]

"anDhkaar deepak pargaasay."

Darkness is lightened by lamp.

nwnk Brm moh duK qh qy nwsy ]6] SGGS page 287

"naanak bharam moh dukh tah tay naasay."

O Nanak, doubt, attachment and pain are destroyed from that."

Also dIpk qy dIpku prgwisAw iqRBvx joiq idKweI ]7]

deepak tay deepak pargaasi-aa taribhavan jot dikhaa-ee. ||7|| SGGS page 907

From a lamp the lamp is lit. The flame of three worlds is made visible.

Strange is that you suggest rejecting Deevas as spiritual symbol.

Everything is spiritual as God resides in everything.

Gurbani says Awpy dIp loA dIpwhw ] SGGS page 699

"aapay deep lo-a deepaahaa."

HE Himself is the lamp, the flame and the illuminator.

Also quDu jyvfu Avru n BwilAw ] SGGS page 79

"tuDh jayvad avar na bhaali-aa."

I do not realize any other as you are.

qUM dIp loA pieAwilAw ]

"tooN deep lo-a pa-i-aali-aa."

You are lamps (all forms) its flame and residing in.

I hope you are not successful in leading people to darkness unconsciously by rejecting God as Deeva.

Gurbani also says DUp dIp iGRq swij AwrqI ] SGGS page 695

Dhoop deep gharit saaj aartee.

With incense, lamp and ghee decorate Aartee.

Jasdeep 22 Ji, please elaborate. How Aartee is performed when our mind is busy throwing lamps out of Gurudwaras?

--------------

You also wrote "and as I said, IT IS DESCRIBED IN SIKH REHAT MARYADA THAT LIGHTING DEEVA IS MANMAT. Read the Rehat Maryada PLEASE.

This answers it."

I have not read 'Sikh Rehat Maryada'. I am still not convinced that it is one of my Gurus.

By the way is this the same 'Sikh Rehat Maryada' you have referred here amended by SGPC which you are criticizing in the other thread titled 'Rehat Maryada'?

Love to all

Balbir Singh

[jasdeep22]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Jasdeep22 Ji!

You wrote about lighting up a Deeva (lamp) "It is pure Manmat and . . .  this practice can be put to an end."

And in this post you wrote "I dont know where I said that Sikhs shud not light any Deevas . . ."

Our Gurus never asked us to stop using Deevas in Gurudwaras.

Rather the Gurbani says AMDkwr dIpk prgwsy ]

"anDhkaar deepak pargaasay."

Darkness is lightened by lamp.

nwnk Brm moh duK qh qy nwsy ]6] SGGS page 287

"naanak bharam moh dukh tah tay naasay."

O Nanak, doubt, attachment and pain are destroyed from that."

Also dIpk qy dIpku prgwisAw iqRBvx joiq idKweI ]7]

deepak tay deepak pargaasi-aa taribhavan jot dikhaa-ee. ||7|| SGGS page 907

From a lamp the lamp is lit.  The flame of three worlds is made visible.

Strange is that you suggest rejecting Deevas as spiritual symbol.

Everything is spiritual as God resides in everything.

Gurbani says Awpy dIp loA dIpwhw ] SGGS page 699

"aapay deep lo-a deepaahaa."

HE Himself is the lamp, the flame and the illuminator.

Also quDu jyvfu Avru n BwilAw ] SGGS page 79

"tuDh jayvad avar na bhaali-aa."

I do not realize any other as you are.

qUM dIp loA pieAwilAw ]

"tooN deep lo-a pa-i-aali-aa."

You are lamps (all forms) its flame and residing in.

I hope you are not successful in leading people to darkness unconsciously by rejecting God as Deeva.

Gurbani also says DUp dIp iGRq swij AwrqI ] SGGS page 695

Dhoop deep gharit saaj aartee.

With incense, lamp and ghee decorate Aartee.

Jasdeep 22 Ji, please elaborate. How Aartee is performed when our mind is busy throwing lamps out of Gurudwaras?

--------------

You also wrote "and as I said, IT IS DESCRIBED IN SIKH REHAT MARYADA THAT LIGHTING DEEVA IS MANMAT. Read the Rehat Maryada PLEASE.

This answers it."

I have not read 'Sikh Rehat Maryada'. I am still not convinced that it is one of my Gurus.

By the way is this the same Sikh Maryada you have referred here amended by SGPC which you are criticizing in the other thread titled 'Rehat Maryada'?

Love to all

Balbir Singh

142225[/snapback]

Pyare Veerji,

The deevas that u are refering to in the Gurbani Quotes are all refering to NAAP Dipak or Shabad as Deeva........non of those refer to the burning a clay deeva for Spiritual sense.

If everyone was to attain God by burning Deevas of clay, then on Diwali in India everyone lights Deevas.........that means everyone shud be able to attain God that day????

Bhaji Gurbani refers to Naam da deeva to be lit inside ur own self. Please try to understand the meaning of those quotes. U are just taking the literal meaning of the word deeva. Please try to understand the Bhaav Arth.

The amendments that I am talking about Sikh rehat Maryada are not related to any Deeva issue. I was talking about those changes which are needed with time. Every constitution makes amendments so shud we, in our Rehat Maryada, which has missed certain issues like Child Abortion etc. and By the way, I did not criticise it. I just voiced my opinion that certain issues which were not addressed shud be discussed.

I am not trying to mislead anyone. People are good enough to decide who is right and who is wrong.

Sikh Rehat Maryada shud be read by every sikh. If you havent read it, please do, coz I think u will understand the topic better.

This is my last post in this thread. I hope people can judge for themselves.

Thanks

[Balbir Singh]

Satsriakal to all and Jasdeep22 Ji!

It is surprising that you do not quote Guru's Vaak to support your views.

Surely NAAM is the Deeva for all inner and outer worlds, and we should pray to get it lit by the Satguru. But please explain where our Gurus have asked us to reject any kind of Deeva?

You wrote "If everyone was to attain God by burning Deevas of clay, then on Diwali in India everyone lights Deevas.........that means everyone shud be able to attain God that day????"

Should a person give up eating, drinking and praying or going to Gurudwara because he is waiting to attain God.

The wonder and joy of watching Deevas can easily be seen specially in children's eyes. I feel HE is God Himself.

Please do not make yourself poorer then God wants you to be.

Accepting HIS Hukam is enough.

Love.

Balbir Singh