Sarabloh

[Gupt daasan daas]

jus folowing a rule?

we shud all remeber one thing

evenif we dont follow bibek

many gurmukhs HAVE

and we shud respect this fact at least

even if we dont agree wit it

and just because OUR KNWOLEDGE AND LIMITED understanding is not enough to grasp the reaons to y guru je has said to keep bibek, if u belive they have, then that does not mean there is something wrong with that reight, there is something lacking in our own area of gian

jus remeber, people like bhai randheer singh je wernt idiots

there avasthas are weay higher than us who r posting

first lets get out avastha to tha point, and if u can, and then worry bout things like this

bhula chuka maf

[ParnaamShaheedaNu]

Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh ji were amazing. Like gupt daasn daas was trying to say, such gurmukhs know certain things that normal paapis like me do not. Study the jeevan of Gurmukhs who kept or keep Sarbloh, and see how much bani and simran they did, Bhai Randhir Singh ji, holy waheguru, they did massive amounts of abiyaas, read their biography, read their life history, they did so much simran and had lots LOTS LOTS of Guru Granth Sahib ji & Dasam Bani memorised.

Someone said:

"The bottom line is Sarbloh bibek isn't neccessary and it is karam kaand. That is all. Read Guru Granth Sahib Ji and try to understand Gurbani."

The thing is, Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji had more of Guru Granth Sahib ji read and memorized than (probably) any of us replying in this post. Therefore, like Gupt daas said & Bijla Singh, we need to try to get our avasthas to that level or approach the situation with humility, rather than assuming we know everything and disregarding a component of rehat that may actually be very significant.

[ParnaamShaheedaNu]

p.s. Anyone who is arguing strongly against sarbloh bibek might benefit from trying it out for a while and seeing if they feel different.

[amarjeet_singh_1699]

woah, u guys are messed up. how can u argue against bibek? we shud practise bibek all the tym, bibek of the eyes, nose, ears, mouth, etc. what we eat should effects our bhagti. if we do naam simran whilst making food and then eat the food our naam will flow more easily during the day. we use sarbloh because sarbloh conducts naam. why do we have amrit from a sarbloh bata? its not jus a coincidence. people like kharkoo hu say sarbloh bibek has no effect on ur spirituallity, wat eveidence do u have for this. naam will obviusly effect ur spirituality, and sarbloh bibek is all about naam.

those ppl hu like eating at restaraunts and so on, from smokers, drinkers, meat eaters. will obviously b against sarbloh bibek as it restrcits their worldly enjoyments.

so basically by saying sarbloh bibek is useless, ur saying the practise of naam is useless.

it amazes me to see how mislead some sikhs are nowadays.

[LostSoul]

"we use sarbloh because sarbloh conducts naam"

Could you please write a reference from bani showing that?

"those ppl hu like eating at restaraunts and so on, from smokers, drinkers, meat eaters. will obviously b against sarbloh bibek as it restrcits their worldly enjoyments."

Wonderful line of thought. If someone doesnt follow sarbloh bibek, they indulge in sinful acts. So everyone who does follow this, are saints by your reasoning?

"so basically by saying sarbloh bibek is useless, ur saying the practise of naam is useless."

No no ones said that.

[Kharkoo4Life]

we use sarbloh because sarbloh conducts naam. why do we have amrit from a sarbloh bata?

144439[/snapback]

Fateh,

I can understand how u can take offense to my posts, for im sure you have probably been practicing the sarbloh bibek for some time now and anyone who challanges its validity will seem like a personal attack on you. I would like to remind you i am not attacking you personaly or anyone else for that matter who wishes to follow this sarbloh bibek. All i have stressed is that the physical vessel from which you consume your food does not alter the state of your soul. How can you tell me tha if i drink milk from a sarbloh cup it will be better for my spirituality versus if i drink from a plastic cup? I would be interested in hearing ur views.

WIth regards to ur statement that sarbloh conducts naam would you please care to elaborate. Last i remember naam is a non-physical entity which serves to affect change in our spirituality which is also a non-physical entity. So how can a mere physical entity (like a particular metal) be crucial for this transformation? Naam is not some sort of electrical current which is "conducted" thru a metal container. Naam refers to the gunn, or collection of all divine virtues. It is when we encompass these virtues (gunn) in our life, i.e. by changing our thoughts, words and deeds so that they are based on these virtues, that CONDUCTANCE of naam takes place in our lives.

I have stressed before if anyone personally feel that using vessels made of a particular vessel are better than by all means i respect their decicsion and they may continue to do so. But i do have objection to someone who wishes to attach special meaning to a type of metal using gurbani as a refernce guide.

As a last point, all matter, including ALL METALS have been created by God. This means anything form gold, silver, aluminum, copper, titanium, IRON etc. Now how can you go around and say that any ONE of these metals is more important or more SPIRITUALY CONDUSIVE than another? Is gold inherintly evil? Is silver only for show? Are copper and aluminum without any value? These heavy metals , as all other natural resources, have been provided to us by god to make use of them and live a more comfortable enjoyable life. THe ways in wich we can use the natural resources are countless, but the key point is to use them to help mankind (be it socially, economically, or physically). TO single out any one particular natural resource of God and to call it more important for our spirituality would be a big mistake.

To attach special significance or meaning to one type of matter over another would be tantamount to brahmnisam (i.e. hollow rituals and blind faith). They have been confusing the masses into beleiving all sort of myths and falsehoods and we as sikhs are following that same path today. Even though the guru has given us the ultimate defense, gyaan of gurbani, we fail to use it.

The guru tells us that if we dont have the One Lord in our minds at all times, it is pointless what efforts we make. Because it is not those physical efforts which matter, but the constant remembrance and Love of God within our minds that matters.

iqsu ivxu sBu ApivqRü hY jyqw pYnxu Kwxu ]

Without Him, all that we wear and eat is impure.

hoir glW siB kUVIAw quDu BwvY prvwxu ]4]5]

Everything else is false. Whatever pleases Your Will is acceptable.

What is important is not the type of material (e.g. metal vs, plastic, styrofoam, glass) which comes into contact with our tongue, for they have no effect on our spirituality. The only thing which comes in contact with our tongue and is important for our spirituality (our soul) is repeating the name of the LOrd with it.

rsnw scw ismrIAY mnu qnu inrmlu hoie ]

With your tongue, repeat the True Name, and your mind and body shall become pure.

This my friends is what true bibek is all about. Cuz bibek is a measure taken to help one attain purity. And the only true purity is keeping god in ur mind at all times for all else besides God is impure.

I deeply hope we can all rise above these superstitious karaam kaand beliefs which have crept into Sikhi and practice it in its true form.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Karam Kaand = Karam Kaand

Bharam Bhaikh Ray Rhai Niaara So Khalsa SatGuru Hamaraa!

[Bijla Singh]

First and foremost I am neither a bibeki nor sarablohi.

Are my actions supported by the teachings of gurbani or do they go against it (i.e. karam kaand)? These questions are what form the basis for any Sikh to assess the spirituality of any action. Otherwise his spirituality would be based on blind faith which is strongly condmened by the Guru.

Very true but we are strictly speaking of sarab loh rehat which has been practiced by many true gursikhs who very well understood Sikhi. Sarab Loh is a hard rehat for a normal person to keep. Unless someone understands its importance they cannot simply start keeping it. “Blind faith” usually results from cultural traditions that are practiced by majority of the people in the society and are easy to follow.

SO if i feel that an action which many people engage in is also based on meaningless karam kaand and choose to condemn it, how does it become hypocricy yet when we all condemn idol worhsip it is fyne? If anything, it is only by openly challenging the many hollwo rituals and rites which have crept into the regular practice of Sikhi amongst the masses that we shall be able to restore the true image and meaning of Sikhi in this world.

There is a fine line between idol worship and sarab loh rehat. Gurbani clearly condemns idol worship because only ONE is worthy of worship. Sarab Loh is not worshipped in any way. Neither it is a hollow ritual nor did it creep into Sikhi from outside. If it did maybe you can show some reference. If you are questioning sarab loh then you seek answers which require you to read Gurmat Bibek and understanding what it really is.

Firstly what evidence is there that ALL THE SINGHS kept this sarbloh bibek?  Secondly, even if some, or even if the majority of the jujharoo Singhs kept this bibek how does that have any effect on what i was saying? Just because the majority of people do something does not make it right or true.

In other words you are against it no matter what. First you asked for evidence then escaped through a loop hole by stating that their actions couldn't be called "right". Not all Singhs kept sarab loh but that doesn’t prove that it is a “hollow ritual” or has no significance. Majority of the people we are considering in this case are the ones who had better understanding about Sikhi than all of us otherwise they wouldn’t have been able to sacrifice for Sikhi.

The majority of the people believe and practice whatever they have been taught by their local "elders" or "wise ones" they grew up around (e.g. babas, sants, sadhus etc.). This does not necessarily imply that what they were taught by these people was in accordance with the teachings of gurmat.

The same also applies to you. Puratan Sikhs who kept sarab loh bibek did not learn it from their “sant/sadhus” because most derawadi people do not keep this rehat. Sarab Loh rehat is practiced by Gursikhs. So if majority of the Gursikhs support bibek/sarab loh then it is right. Perhaps you can explain who taught Bhai Randhir Singh Ji and Akali Kaur Singh Ji to keep sarab loh? and how they were wrong?

Guru Nanak travelled nearly the whole world eating out of the same utensils as the local people did and it had no effect on his "spirituality" so why should we feel that the utensils should affect ours?

First of all, Guru Nanak Dev Ji ate from the house of His Sikhs and not from people like Sajjan thug. So it makes Him a bibeki. Second, it is foolish to compare our spirituality with that of Guru Sahib’s. Keep sarab loh for a while and see how it affects you. No sarab lohi person claims that all the spirituality lies within sarab loh. Every bibeki and sarab lohi person knows that without Gurmat Bibek Rehat Bibek is of no importance.

All i have stressed is that the physical vessel from which you consume your food does not alter the state of your soul.

I beg to differ. Every physical action has some impact on our mind and soul. For example, Sikhs use Sarab Loh Bata during Amrit Sanchaar which has deeply spiritual effect on anyone who drinks it. If anything we eat and drink had no effect on us then Guru Ji wouldn’t have made it mandatory to take Amrit. By the way, have you ever eaten food that was prepared by Amritdhari Sikhs while reciting Gurbani? You should to see the difference.

Last i remember naam is a non-physical entity which serves to affect change in our spirituality which is also a non-physical entity. So how can a mere physical entity (like a particular metal) be crucial for this transformation?

So using plastic bowl during Amrit Sanchaar is ok if metal doesn’t matter? Naam is everything. Naam purifies one’s soul, mind and physical body. Gurbani says so.

The guru tells us that if we dont have the One Lord in our minds at all times, it is pointless what efforts we make. Because it is not those physical efforts which matter, but the constant remembrance and Love of God within our minds that matters.

We should remember Waheguru Ji 24/7 no one denies that especially sarab lohi Sikhs who put great emphasis on Naam Simran. However, physical efforts do matter. Four bajjar kurehats are physical, are they not? Panj Kakkars are physical as well. One cannot be a Khalsa without keeping inner and outer rehat.

This my friends is what true bibek is all about. Cuz bibek is a measure taken to help one attain purity. And the only true purity is keeping god in ur mind at all times for all else besides God is impure.

I urge you to study Gurmat Bibek so you can understand what bibek really is. In Sikhi remembering Waheguru is only one type of bibek, however, there are others. Naam is the foundation which requires strong house of rehat to be built upon it.

ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਰਛਾ ਹਮਨੈ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਦੀ ਰਛਿਆ ਹਮਨੈ ॥

ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਰਛਿਆ ਹਮਨੈ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਸਦਾ ਰਛਿਆ ਹਮਨੈ ॥

The non-temporal Purusha (All-Pervading Lord) is my Protector. The All-Steel Lord is my Protector. The All-Destroying Lord is my Protector. The All-Steel Lord is ever my Protector.

What about the quote above? Or did I fail to understand the metaphor again? Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[amarjeet_singh_1699]

"How can you tell me tha if i drink milk from a sarbloh cup it will be better for my spirituality versus if i drink from a plastic cup?"

plastic cup can get jooth, sarbloh one cant, as u remove a layer wen u wash it

if u do no naam of either there will be no difference, if u do naam over both, there will b a difference, the milk in the sarbloh bata will help u jap naam more.

i ask agen, y do we have amrit from a sarbloh bata?

all metals have been created by god, tht dnt make them all the same.

all men have been made by god, so are u aying that a man who utters naam with every breath is the same as a man who commits millions of sins all the time because god made all men??

dont presume im a bibeki or a sarblohi bibeki jus because i belive in the sarbloh bibek rehit

all metals are diferent and have different properties

sarbloh is what we should eat from, full stop

jus like ur kirpan and kara should be sarbloh

or are u gonna argue with that as well

do u want urs in titnanium, as its more practical?

[jagjit_waheguru]

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji kefateh

Pyare jio, personally I am not sarblohi. My sarbloh bibek is my nitnem and amrit vela. Maybe in future as I build some kind of a jeevan, I will adopt it. However as yet I am still in the stage where I concentrate on the simple things and try and do them well.

I have experience of sarbloh. Not because I was one. But because a Gursikh who kept that rehit lived with me for 6 months. So we ate and made food together. My personal experience was that I did find it helpful. It simplifies your diet and your chioces, creating less "wants". Because it simplified that side of your mind, it made me personally feel more content and humble. Instead of having cravings for ffod, you have cravings for naam and bani. Also I found it made me stronger in my belief in Gurmat. So I was glad I spent them six months with that Gursikh. It is only by trying something do you really understand it.

However I did not interact in the sangat as a Sarblohi, because I never have formally adopted it. When one interacts with the sangat, for some, it leads to difficulty, of subtle ego, or with others mindless debates when every one questions your rehit. I find both unhelpful. It is not usually the sarblohi who has a problem, but those around these Gursikhs.

In other cases you get some sarblohis, who seem deviod of compassion or sehaj, and are far too bothered about food, who touched what, and how it was cooked, etc. This I feel is also wrong. How can you concentrate on naam, when your mind is stuck in food? It should be a simple rehit, but when it becomes an obsession, then it can be far more dangerous to your mind, than anything else.

In conclusion, the rehit of sarbloh is a very hard rehit to keep. I have utmost satkar for those who do it. But if you do it, do not become a pakhandi by doing it, but use it to build upon a strong amrit vela and jeevan of bhagti. If you do not have that then your sarbloh is of little value. It is a rehit that should bring even more compassion and humilty, and not a rehit which should bring ego.

Personally I would advise gursikhs, if they are thinking of this rehit to spend one year doing Amrit vela. If in a year, you never miss a day, then start to keep the rehit. If you miss a day, then start your year again from that day. Only when you are firm in your abyass do you need to protect that abyass.

On the waheguru network forum, this subject also came up. Someone sent a link to at article on tapoban. It is quite informative on this subject, for thse who wish to debate it.

http://www.tapoban.org/langar.htm

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh