Modernisation Of Sikhim: Is It A Requirement?

[Manchester_Sikhi]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa... Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

I've often thought that religions often need to be spring-cleaned and sometimes need to go through a modernisation of sorts to re-appeal to those lost souls out there.

In this KalaYug we need some deep-rooted and tried and tested principals by which to lead out lives, but do you think religions (not necessarily focused on Sikhi but incorportating Sikhi) require this upheaval now and then?

I always thought of Sikhi as being a forward looking religion...which I guess it is...

But look at the RC church and Christianity....both in decline..both stuck in their dogmatic principles and practices.

Then look at Islam, in the West, fast becoming the prevalant religion of choice. However, it seems Islam (in the West at least) has some foresight and seems to be able to adapt to the modern day...

Whilst I havent studied Sikh religion and culture enough to make such a statement, do we think Sikhism is in a similar position where it is adapting to the current day? If it doesnt need to be adapted, why isnt it as popular as the other major religions...

Or do we think it needs some modification or scope for modernisation (and I'm not talking about relaxing some of the core principles of Sikhism...espicially on the issue fo sex).

Lets see what ideas we come up with.

[singh_comradz]

Sikhi doesn't need to modernise to keep up with the world..the world needs to modernise to keep up with Sikhi

[Sinner]

VJKK VJKF

Sikhi doesn't need to modernise to keep up with the world..the world needs to modernise to keep up with Sikhi

144807[/snapback]

:e:

[singh_comradz]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa... Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

I've often thought that religions often need to be spring-cleaned and sometimes need to go through a modernisation of sorts to re-appeal to those lost souls out there.

In this KalaYug we need some deep-rooted and tried and tested principals by which to lead out lives, but do you think religions (not necessarily focused on Sikhi but incorportating Sikhi) require this upheaval now and then?

I always thought of Sikhi as being a forward looking religion...which I guess it is...

But look at the RC church and Christianity....both in decline..both stuck in their dogmatic principles and practices.

Then look at Islam, in the West, fast becoming the prevalant religion of choice.  However, it seems Islam (in the West at least) has some foresight and seems to be able to adapt to the modern day...

Whilst I havent studied Sikh religion and culture enough to make such a statement, do we think Sikhism is in a similar position where it is adapting to the current day? If it doesnt need to be adapted, why isnt it as popular as the other major religions...

Or do we think it needs some modification or scope for modernisation (and I'm not talking about relaxing some of the core principles of Sikhism...espicially on the issue fo sex).

Lets see what ideas we come up with.

144806[/snapback]

let me expand a bit more. Sikhi in my opinion isn't just another 'ism' like other faiths. Sikhi is a faith for all religions. the SGGS contains hundreds of names for God and is a message for all mankind. but people in defining it have made it just that

Islam is the fastest growing religion, but civilisations rise and fall.

also Sikhi doesn't compete in the numbers game, we're not a missionary faith and we don't seek converts. its more a personal spiritual experience and about self realisation.

and numbers have also been limited because of numerous holocausts, attempts to assimilate, negative culture, ignorance etc...

furthermore Sikhi isn't something we inherit, but its something we earn.

anyone who takes amrit, takes it because it is their pre-ordained destiny.

also the Guru's teachings and most, if not all our history is in solid form. it can't be changed despite attempts to. and despite my limited knowledge i don't think its the same with other religions

[Kharkoo4Life]

Fateh,

Thank you for ur post. It seems that ur intentions are good and that u wish to share the message of sikhi with as many people as possible. And Sikhi being a path so different (both theologically and practically) from all other faiths can appear quite an overwhelming and daunting lifestyle to follow to the uninitiated. In this struggle to try and spread the message of Sikhi so that all can benefit from it and at the same time balancing it with the almost certain apprehensions and disinterest with those the message is bieng shared with it is understandable that many would see a benefit of a more lax or 'modernized' version of sikhi for these newcomers.

However, before we discuss whether such an approach is warranted with Sikhi, we must first understand why this whole concept of 'modernization' and attempts at doing such evolved, particularly with other faiths which have already made such attempts. The majority of faiths (if not all) prior to Sikhi had over time strayed very far from their original purposes. I am sure that if the founders of many of these faiths were alive today they would be horrified at what the present practice of their faith had deteriorated into. THe reasons for this are manyfold. Firstmost, none of the religiously enlightened ppl (prior to Guru Nanak) had left any documented self-authored beliefs/philosophy for their disciples to learn from. Much of what was passed one was done primarily thru oral accounts and second, and third hand writings, most of which were written long after the demise of the founders of the faith. Gradually over time, many beliefs and practices crept into these faiths and since there was no unified authenticated source with which to evaluate the truth behind thse new intrusions of falsehoods most were left to accept whatever was being preached.

Secondly even when attempst were made to measure the value or importance of these new bliefs and practices based on the available 'scriptures', since most of the scriptures were 2nd, 3rd hand writings, these scriptures themselves were filled with many falsehoods as well. In many cases, even tho many of the stories, words, of the original founder were kept intact, people began to misinterpret them and derive far-fetched distorted interprations of them. Many of these misinterprations resulted in such things as ranging from ppl taking the earth to be flat and central in the universe, to diff ppl being born with diff status, all the way to ppl viewing the founders as gods, or god incarnations.

In this present age of information, knowledge man is no longer inclined to just believe and follow whatever any folkstory or preachers tells him. There is an ever increased desire by most ppl to re-evluate all the religious sermons they have taught since childhood and see if they hold any truth. They want explanatios laced in logic and reason and not just mysticisim and folklore. THus every religions is going thru if not already gone thru a process of critical self-analysis. It is suffice to say in this process most faiths will be faced with the bitter truths that much of their foundations and philosophy do not hold ground or have been riddled with many falsehoods. Thus the need to "reform" these faiths to their true forms.

WIth regards to sikhi, a special situation exists for it faces no direct threat to its systems of belief and philosophy. The gurus themselves left first hand accounts of all the central princples of this faith for anyone to read and evaluate. Furthermore these scriptures did not get caught up in a listing of endless physical 'facts' or 'truths' dealing with physiology, biology, astronomy, evolution. Wherever any refernces have been made to thse subjects there is sound scientific basis to them such that even modern science will never be able to disprove them. If anyone has any question has to the validity of this faiths beliefs in light of modern science/information then they are welcome to critically analyse them as recorded firsthand within Guru Granth Sahib. ANd it can be guaranteed with 100% assurance that if anyone finds any faulst or irregularities they will be only do to the unwillingness of the reader to accept and follow the truth, and not be based on actual reason or logic.

So how does this tie into the modern perception and following of Sikhi. Firstly Gurus were never interested in the sheer numbers of followers and nor was it there intent to try and get as many people to follow the sikh faith as possible. If such was their intent they cud easily have used many scare tactics or even force to pressurize the masses into following this path. And if they felt that certain parts of the belief system were too strict for the majority they cud have easily relaxed the edicts of the faith back then. But they didnt. Even in face of death they chose to stick to the ideal of the fiath and not compromise even a single iota of the faith now matter how tempting it may have seemed. ALl those who followed SIkhi did so thru voluntary choice and this is how it should remain today.

When we get into talks of modernization of Sikhi, then the essence of it will surely be lost. We read all the time how even against the most insurmounatable odds, when no other end result but a sure death was seen, that not a single man, women or even child dared to even modify or conform a single part of their faith. Even when sikhs were being murdred in the hundreds every day in open markets, and a mom made last minute desparate please to save her teenage son by saying he was only a child, her only support, and that he was raised in appearance of a sikh but himself knew nothing about it, the son rather than jump at this rare opportunity to save his life courageously responded back, "Do not listen to her, she is not my mom, and i not her son. I am a Sikh! and shall live as a sikh and if God so wills die as a Sikh too. Now do not waste time and show me pity, for i crave to be united with my Beloved."

Such was the mindset of the follower of Sikhi during those days. In todays world the pressures we face are trivial when compared to those of then. Yes we face peer pressure of looks, appearance, of wantint to fit in, or being viewed as backward or overy traditional but these are minor stresses compared the stress of iminent death looming over our heads every time we step out into public. If ppl are reluctant to follow sikhi we shud not be dismayed or discouraged. It is every persons right to practice whatever faith, if any fiath they choose to. However, we should not devalue the faith and conform its practice to the needs of the individual, rather the person who wishes to follow the faith should conform his own lifestyle to that of the faith. And if they wish not to and see it as too much, then we should respect that persons decision and let them live life however they wish to and remain by their side so that if they ever do develop a true inner desire to learn more about Sikhi that we can do our best to help them.

For sikhi to retain its value and have the intended beneficial effects on the invidiual, which is to be able to transform an ordinary lowly labourers, masoneries, farmers into men women of the highest character, courage and resilience it must be understood and practiced in the form with which it was taught to us by the Gurus themselvs. And this form (both in theory and practice) was shown to us firsthand by the lives of the Gurus themselvs. And anyone who wishes to take full benefit from SIkhi, and reach that state of etenral inner bliss while still alive, will have to model their life and practice Sikhi exactly as the gurus themselves did. Any alteration to this, while will cause no harm to Sikhi (for it is Godsend and eternal), it will surely cause harm to the practicer of this altered modernized Sikhi for they will never be able to reach a state where they can experience permanent 'anand' or spiritual bliss. And if one cant reach the end goal of a path, then what value remains in that path?

[ParwinderSingh]

i dont understand why ppl bring this up,

why should we change the religion or the path to God............shouldnt it be the other way around........we should change not the religion.

this is why islam and christianity n hinduism has lost its reall meanings , beos ppl change it.

if we change it to meet modern time then ppl wud make it the easiest thing ever.

just cos its hard doesnt mean it needs modernising........thats my veiw in a few words, hope no one is offended.

WJKK

WJKF!!

[Manchester_Sikhi]

Thanks Kharkoo4Life for your reply!!!

I learnt quite a few things!

Why is there a problem wiht such debates though...

My point of view is that we/I have no intention of changing the original teachings of the Gurus...I dont think any of us want that.

But, in the same breath, maybe there is something to be said by the way we go about spreading the word or keeping our youth, for example, within Sikhi.

Sikhism is not a missionary religion...and to some extent, I dont think its even a religions...more so a way of life...

But the point of the thread was really to focus on how we prevent the degreadation of Sikhism (not that is anywhere near degrading), but how do we keep it special, how do we keep the youth within Sikhi and essentially how do we attract them BACK INTO Sikhi from the Pubjabi way of life they are living at the moment. THATS the million dollar question...

Sure, Sikhi may not need modernising....but maybe we need leaders within the faith, current day (21st Cent.) icon who can inspire our youth..maybe we need to make the youth aware of these figures...whats clear is we need to change "something" that we are doing to bring back into the fold those youngsters who have gone astray...

Its upto Sikhis to assit and bring back those who have gone astray...with Gurus Kirpa, back into Sikhi and make them see the beauty of Sikhism.

There has to be a reason why they, and its clear the work we are doing is helping to some extent, but I see countless Sikhis within the University who are only Sikhis by name and thats it...drink, meat, girls and drugs are all rife...

Its that groups we need to catch...and I feel it something "missing" or something we need to "change" in the way we "preach" or the way we "teach" that will strehgthen the future.

No doubt some of that will raise some eyebrows, but I think we need to be active in certain parts of the faith to keep it alive and flourishing.

[msjskb]

Guru Ji created something that will never need to be modernised. Their foresight is way ahead of anyones and always will be. If they can say that Vaheguru will be true forever then they are saying that because they have looked that far ahead.

I know sometimes new ideas can be brought in....but we must always remember 1 thing:

Sikhi is not for sale.

So long as we dont bend or relax our morals its all good.

hope that made sense.

[Manchester_Sikhi]

Dear msjskb,

thats the point I made...the teachings and morals DO NOT need changing at all...

But, I pose a question to you.

How do you suggest we get back our youth?

I guess with Guru's Kirpa they will come back...but as followers of Sikhi arent we supposed to be guiding our youth and teachings them?

If thats the case, how do we change our practises to guide these back into the Sangat.

[MiriPiri]

I cannot disagree with anyone, but hopefully I can contribute in a useful way...my eyes opened wider than ever when I experienced the words of a wedding ceremony being prjected in English on a screen in my gurudwara. The "gorer" guests were impressed with the sacred words expressed in the ceremony.

The original Sikh teachings cannot be changed, and even the language can be said to be sacred (Gurmukh) but it does not mean the message means less in a different language.

Come on people, Sikhism should be about Universality, inclusivity. NOT exclusivity.We are not our own or a doctrine's servants, but those of the creator. Are we not?