Arranged Marriage And Caste

[koonergs]

I think people do it as they feel more comfortable with people of their own caste, because different castes have different traditions and stuff

[amankaur]

I think people do it as they feel more comfortable with people of their own caste, because different castes have different traditions and stuff

145553[/snapback]

i agree with what u jus said which is tru stil but what beats me is how comes people do things diff like the way they pray n stuf cus end of day we al sikhs shudnt we do things the same especialy the praying stuf? hmm...

[buddasingh]

Without going into my caste, I disagree about attitudes of different castes.

145541[/snapback]

Randip Singh, your right in that just because you come from a different caste that doesn't mean you'll have a different attitude with someone else. After all there are various factors which contribute to this.

In general people of a common up bringing will share similar traits and attitudes, and my whole point is that often times ones caste can give indiviauls a general if not stereotypical, overview of what ones upbrining was like, and make it possible to get a hyptothetical snapshot or guess at how that person may now be. This does not in no way mean that one is forced to be that way, since like I said, various other things contribute.

So the fact that people marry people of similar caste-lineage as them is not anti gurmat when the families are just looking towards marrying families they feel they can better relate with. Same goes when families give preference to people of similar districts over one another, or how families try to get people of a similar occupation or level of education together.

It doesn't mean that going against any these makes a marriage less likely or more likely to fail or succeed, just means that people are trying to find people they can relate better with.

Simply put two families who share similar backgrounds will have more in common then two families who come from complete polar opposites. This does not apply just with caste, but with anything such as schooling, place of upbringing etc.

145547[/snapback]

Shinda,

Modern day educated white supremacists use the same rationale of common culture, similar backgrounds to push segragation. The reason we don't buy their argument is because we know the truth and we know it is a crock of @#@.

We also know the reality of caste prejudice amongst sikhs (not mere preference as you suggest). Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us the similar background we need. The ERADICATION of caste was part of that background.

[randip singh]

Thank you for the replies, as most people realised this was not a topic about caste. It was the relationship that exists between arranged marriages and caste system. Parents only look for someone from the same caste, possibally because they have easier access to the family's background, relatives who know the other family etc and also because of common traditions that exist in one's caste.

The main thing i wanted to say was that as somone suggested if Gurdwara started arranging the marriages or the arranged mariage system was changed so that caste was not a factor in the decision then caste based divison can become less and less.

My belief is that caste in sikh community has only flourished because of the Arranged marriage.

145550[/snapback]

Just for the record I DIDNT have an arranged marriage and I am glad of it because it meant I got married out of "caste". If the arranged marriage system as it stands at the moment didnt reiforce caste then I would have been happy to go down that route too.

I am not against arranged marriages, but they do reinforce caste stereotypes. I think the Gurudwara thing is not a bad thing. Marriages that are not arranged are not a bad thing either.

[proud_to_be_singhni]

Thank you for the replies, as most people realised this was not a topic about caste. It was the relationship that exists between arranged marriages and caste system. Parents only look for someone from the same caste, possibally because they have easier access to the family's background, relatives who know the other family etc and also because of common traditions that exist in one's caste.

The main thing i wanted to say was that as somone suggested if Gurdwara started arranging the marriages or the arranged mariage system was changed so that caste was not a factor in the decision then caste based divison can become less and less.

My belief is that caste in sikh community has only flourished because of the Arranged marriage.

145550[/snapback]

Im not sure I agree on that one paaji....havent read many of above replies but far as Ive seen here...in arranged marriages the first things parents look at Is caste. Peeple that choose their own partners don't give that the slightest thought. Don't usually agree with Randip singh but theres a first time for everything..and hopefully the last..lollllll

[Balait_da_Sher]

Thank you for the replies, as most people realised this was not a topic about caste. It was the relationship that exists between arranged marriages and caste system. Parents only look for someone from the same caste, possibally because they have easier access to the family's background, relatives who know the other family etc and also because of common traditions that exist in one's caste.

The main thing i wanted to say was that as somone suggested if Gurdwara started arranging the marriages or the arranged mariage system was changed so that caste was not a factor in the decision then caste based divison can become less and less.

My belief is that caste in sikh community has only flourished because of the Arranged marriage.

145550[/snapback]

Im not sure I agree on that one paaji....havent read many of above replies but far as Ive seen here...in arranged marriages the first things parents look at Is caste. Peeple that choose their own partners don't give that the slightest thought. Don't usually agree with Randip singh but theres a first time for everything..and hopefully the last..lollllll

145784[/snapback]

errm,dont think u understood wat i was saying.

Parents only look for someone from the same caste, possibally because they have easier access to the family's background, relatives who know the other family etc and also because of common traditions that exist in one's caste.

While the above is true. i think it may have started out that way and then over time its changed to something like "Only look for someone from same caste". And the theme behind the topic is that until we change that "only look for someone from same caste" to "Look for someone who is Sikh" Caste will be here for a long time in sikh community.

[Shinda]

Shinda,

Modern day educated white supremacists use the same rationale of common culture, similar backgrounds to push segragation. The reason we don't buy their argument is because we know the truth and we know it is a crock of @#@.

We also know the reality of caste prejudice amongst sikhs (not mere preference as you suggest). Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us the similar background we need. The ERADICATION of caste was part of that background.

145606[/snapback]

Budda Singh,

With due respect, I think your being a bit naive. How can one argue that people who grow up in different area's not have differing attitudes?

The difference between farmers and city folk? The difference between Canadians and Americans?

I made note to say that as Randip Singh said this outlook is a stereotypical but that does not mean in most general cases a difference does not exist?

I never once said that one is better then the other, I just made a point to note that a difference does exist, in most GENERAL cases. This difference does not exist by default because of what caste one maybe labelled, but rather due to the circumstances and factors that effect ones upbring.

Families with military backgrounds will many times have preferance for other families with military backgrounds. Families with high education backgrounds prefer families with a similar background of high education.

Families want families they feel they can relate with. Simple as that.

How can one argue otherwise? Even aruging that Guru Sahib gave us the simple background and common link is a bit naive, and seemingly an effort to simplify something more complex. Lets put away the Walt Disney Videos and wake up to reality.

An amritdhari marrying an amrtidhari is simple enough, but what if someone has different oppinions in rehit? By saying that one seeks to marry someone who shares a similar outlook towards Sikhi and lives by a similar maryada, is that also promoting segregation?

All its doing is stating the obvious that it's easier and less complex to find individuals of similar backgrounds and believe it or not at one time or another ones caste label told a lot about about what one could expect. However in the East and even more so in the West, these standards are quickly becoming equal thus blurring the differences in the stereotypes of what ones caste may have meant.

[randip singh]

Shinda,

Modern day educated white supremacists use the same rationale of common culture, similar backgrounds to push segragation. The reason we don't buy their argument is because we know the truth and we know it is a crock of @#@.

We also know the reality of caste prejudice amongst sikhs (not mere preference as you suggest). Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us the similar background we need. The ERADICATION of caste was part of that background.

145606[/snapback]

Budda Singh,

With due respect, I think your being a bit naive. How can one argue that people who grow up in different area's not have differing attitudes?

The difference between farmers and city folk? The difference between Canadians and Americans?

I made note to say that as Randip Singh said this outlook is a stereotypical but that does not mean in most general cases a difference does not exist?

I never once said that one is better then the other, I just made a point to note that a difference does exist, in most GENERAL cases. This difference does not exist by default because of what caste one maybe labelled, but rather due to the circumstances and factors that effect ones upbring.

Families with military backgrounds will many times have preferance for other families with military backgrounds. Families with high education backgrounds prefer families with a similar background of high education.

Families want families they feel they can relate with. Simple as that.

How can one argue otherwise? Even aruging that Guru Sahib gave us the simple background and common link is a bit naive, and seemingly an effort to simplify something more complex. Lets put away the Walt Disney Videos and wake up to reality.

An amritdhari marrying an amrtidhari is simple enough, but what if someone has different oppinions in rehit? By saying that one seeks to marry someone who shares a similar outlook towards Sikhi and lives by a similar maryada, is that also promoting segregation?

All its doing is stating the obvious that it's easier and less complex to find individuals of similar backgrounds and believe it or not at one time or another ones caste label told a lot about about what one could expect. However in the East and even more so in the West, these standards are quickly becoming equal thus blurring the differences in the stereotypes of what ones caste may have meant.

145855[/snapback]

Hi Shinda I think people create differences in their own minds.

I remember one comment being made in jest about my surname and how people of my "birardri" were different from the Jatts birardri because of surnames.

It turns out their were Jatts with the same surname (in this case distantly related to my wifes family) of the same surname as mine.

The point was an attempt was made to highlight differences, rather than see obvious similarities. Caste exharbates differences where all to often there are none, or they are superficial.

Another exampleof this was of a friend of mine surname Jandu (Tarkhan). I recently met a Harayanavi Jatt who's surname was Jandu too. It turns out these same Jandu's were direct relations of his who had moved to a village called Literaan a few hundred years ago and had taken up carpentry.

Same for a Khambho friend of mine who had a same surname as another. Turns out they were actually blood relatives.

Caste, race are divisive, and teh Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji makes no bones about it. It does not dwell in the "Walt Disney Scenario", and tells us to tackle the reality of it and the shallowness of it head on.

My brothers wife from a Jatt family (Cheema), her first cousin in India got married to a Khatri guy. This was arranged. I know of similar arrangements between Ramgharia families, Khatri families, Jatt families, Khambho families etc etc.

The Taboo still is with untouchables, something that needs to be addressed.

[buddasingh]

Shinda,

Modern day educated white supremacists use the same rationale of common culture, similar backgrounds to push segragation. The reason we don't buy their argument is because we know the truth and we know it is a crock of @#@.

We also know the reality of caste prejudice amongst sikhs (not mere preference as you suggest). Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us the similar background we need. The ERADICATION of caste was part of that background.

145606[/snapback]

Budda Singh,

With due respect, I think your being a bit naive. How can one argue that people who grow up in different area's not have differing attitudes?

The difference between farmers and city folk? The difference between Canadians and Americans?

I made note to say that as Randip Singh said this outlook is a stereotypical but that does not mean in most general cases a difference does not exist?

I never once said that one is better then the other, I just made a point to note that a difference does exist, in most GENERAL cases. This difference does not exist by default because of what caste one maybe labelled, but rather due to the circumstances and factors that effect ones upbring.

Families with military backgrounds will many times have preferance for other families with military backgrounds. Families with high education backgrounds prefer families with a similar background of high education.

Families want families they feel they can relate with. Simple as that.

How can one argue otherwise? Even aruging that Guru Sahib gave us the simple background and common link is a bit naive, and seemingly an effort to simplify something more complex. Lets put away the Walt Disney Videos and wake up to reality.

An amritdhari marrying an amrtidhari is simple enough, but what if someone has different oppinions in rehit? By saying that one seeks to marry someone who shares a similar outlook towards Sikhi and lives by a similar maryada, is that also promoting segregation?

All its doing is stating the obvious that it's easier and less complex to find individuals of similar backgrounds and believe it or not at one time or another ones caste label told a lot about about what one could expect. However in the East and even more so in the West, these standards are quickly becoming equal thus blurring the differences in the stereotypes of what ones caste may have meant.

145855[/snapback]

Shinda what you say has logical truth to it. However it is practically DEAD WRONG. (Just a strong opinion bro, excuse the caps.) Let me explain what I mean. If someone was to physically push you would it be wrong or right? It depends on context.

A person can push you when you are standing on the edge of a cliff. They will take your life. A person can push you when you are standing in the path of an oncoming train. They will save your life. Context is crucial.

Your post refuses to acknowledge context of Caste in the psyche of those claiming sikhi. Caste is a DISEASE 100 times greater than it is something of convenience or commonality. In your most recent post you use the word background but did not mention the word Caste as you did in previous posts. To be clear if we follow your posts you mean Caste.

Who’s kidding who? Be a fly on the wall and you will find that 99.99 percent of people who acknowledge Caste do it in a manner totally contrary to Sikhi. Given this CONTEXT an argument such as yours, as intelligent as it may be, promotes the disease of caste. Many (not necc u) who can’t break the chains, rationalize it with some logic void of context.

Another example of context that is closer to caste --- would be that of a magazine publication in America say called “Black Culture” catering to the black community. This is quite acceptable. Logic would suggest that it would then equally be acceptable to have a publication called “White Culture” catering to the white community. Although logical it is wrong. Why? Because of CONTEXT.

[_K_]

"The Taboo still is with untouchables, something that needs to be addressed. :wub: "

hmmmm... thas soo truu Randip Singh paaji ( & btw i wish 2 big u up 4 marryin out'v caste )

i agree wiv wat balait da sher is sayin 2, arranged marriages have only added 2 divisions in wat shud b a united community bcuz its tru, 1st thing mommy n daddy luk 4 is CASTE. they worry to much "haaaw wa will so n so think bla bla bla " they need 2 wake up 2 reality that we r all 1, hopefully this will happen sooner rather than later (plz plz b4 my weddin LOL)

i dun think arranged marriages r wrong at all, there's evidence 2 suggest they r more succesful than love marriages (as long as there not forced) but i disagree with caste being a "criteria" tha needs 2 b assesed if u get me.

i mean, goin bak 2 wa randip singh was sayin, ye th issue wiv th so called " untouchables" is ridiuclous, if th girl is chamaar then often her parents r afraid 2 let her marry in2 a "higher" caste, cuz they worry how the saas ji will treat her they dont wish 4 any1 2 luk down on them.

did u guys know tha Guru Arjan Ji had actually tried 2 marry out'v the khatri caste???i think wen his marriage was being arranged he had requested it 2 b a girl frm a diff caste, it was his way of promotin equality, but it caused such a public outcry it was not allowed. the sad fing is tha this is goin on 2day...lukin down on 1another is stoooooopid, I am PRO "OUTSYD TH CASTE MARRIAGES", i think tha is th 1st step 2wards the fight for caste eradication

hawww iv gon on 4 2 long agen!