Heaven And Hell

[singh_khalsa]

inMdku jmdUqI Awie sMGwirE dyvih mUMf aupir mtwk ]

ni(n)dhak jamadhoothee aae sa(n)ghaariou dhaevehi moo(n)dd oupar mattaak ||

The Messenger of Death comes to slaughter the slanderer; he beats him on his head.

jmdUqI hY hyirAw duK hI mih pcw ]

jamadhoothee hai haeriaa dhukh hee mehi pachaa ||

The Messenger of Death sees him, and he rots away in pain.

BY BieAwnk jmdUq duqr hY mwieAw ]

bhai bhaeiaanak jamadhooth dhuthar hai maaeiaa ||

The Messenger of Death is terrifying and horrendous, and sea of Maya is impassable.

jmdUq mhw BieAwn ]

jamadhooth mehaa bhaeiaan ||

The Messenger of Death is dreadful and horrible.

ieku duKu skqvwr jmdUq ]

eik dhukh sakathavaar jamadhooth ||

Another pain is the attack of the Messenger of Death.

Aink swsn qwVMiq jmdUqh qv sMgy ADmM nrh ]

anik saasan thaarra(n)th jamadhootheh thav sa(n)gae adhhama(n) nareh ||

Associating with you, mortals are debased and punished by the Messenger of Death in so many ways.

(guru ji says you are punished, so cant be a ficitonal story for hindhus, as gurbani is 100% truth! i really cant belive guru ji is there to show hindhus that hell and jamdhoots are not real, there are so many refrences to the messenger of death. how can this be false? guru ji never points this out as false, guruji says the messenger o death.. and so on... so this must be truth, and we know guru ji wouldnt lie.)

AMqkwl jmdUq vyK puq nrwiex bolY CihAw]

a(n)thakaal jamadhooth vaekh puth naraaein bolai shhehiaa||

At the end of his life, seeing the messengers of death Ajamil cried for Narayan

[singh_khalsa]

another shabdh proving the reality of hell and heaven (but gursikhs want nethier of these, just want waheguru) so there will be shabdh saying that hell and heaven dont matter or something like that...

piq Ajwml pwp kr jwie klwvqxI dy rihAw]

path ajaamal paap kar jaae kalaavathanee dhae rehiaa||

Ajamil, the fallen sinner lived with a prostitute.

gur qy bymuK hoiekY pwp kmwvy durmiq dihAw]

gur thae baemukh hoeikai paap kamaavae dhuramath dhehiaa||

He became an apostate. He was entangled in the cobweb of evil deeds.

ibRQw jnm gvwieAnu Bvjl AMdr iPrdw vihAw]

brithhaa janam gavaaeian bhavajal a(n)dhar firadhaa vehiaa||

His life was wasted in futile deeds and was tossed and thrown within the terrifying worldly ocean.

iCA puq jwey vysvw pwpW dy Pl ieCy lihAw]

shhia puth jaaeae vaesavaa paapaa(n) dhae fal eishhae lehiaa||

While with the prostitute, he became the father of six sons. As a result of her bad deeds they all became dangerous robbers.

puqR aupMnw sqvW nwauN Drx noN icq aumihAw]

puthr oupa(n)naa sathavaa(n) naaou(n) dhharan no(n) chith oumehiaa||

A seventh son was born and he began to consider a name for the child.

gurU duAwrY jwiekY gurmuK nwauN nrwiex kihAw]

guroo dhuaarai jaaeikai guramukh naaou(n) naraaein kehiaa||

He visited the Guru who named his son Narayan (a name for God).

AMqkwl jmdUq vyK puq nrwiex bolY CihAw]

a(n)thakaal jamadhooth vaekh puth naraaein bolai shhehiaa||

At the end of his life, seeing the messengers of death Ajamil cried for Narayan.

jmgx mwry hirjnW gieAw surg jm fMf n sihAw]

jamagan maarae harijanaa(n) gaeiaa surag jam dda(n)dd n sehiaa||

The name of God made the death messengers take to their heels. Ajamil went to heaven and did not suffer the beatings from the club of the messengers of death.

nwie ley duK fyrw FihAw ]òú]

naae leae dhukh ddaeraa dtehiaa ||aa||

Utterance of Name of the Lord dispels all sorrow.

[Bundha]

<<< Interesting you say that the stories of the Guru's were false. >>>

Do not put words in my mouth Randip Ji. This is not what I said, I believe these not to be mere stories. What I said was that IF these were mere stories then Guru Sahib Ji would have nothing to do with them. Try to keep up yaar!

<<< Bal Singh of sikh-history.com, described this beautifully as Guruji description of life in the womb. >>>

Lol, I know of this Bal Singh article and this is the most silly piece of fiction I have read in a long time, I couldn’t stop laughing at the absurdity of this guy who plucks things straight of the air.

Hmmmmmmmm let me think, what can I make this a metaphor for, I KNOW the WOMB and off he goes straight into LaLa Land. I am surprised at you Randip Ji, and educated man like yourself falling for this rubbish!

<<You are contradicting yourself! >>

No contradiction.

<<<How can immortal beings die, unless of course they are not immortal? make your mind up, which is it? >>>

Devtay are not immortal, they have a life span, be it mega mega times longer then ours but at the end they also are taken by Kaal, so no contradiction.

<<< In many ways this reminds me of Bible thumpers who claim Jesus is the only son of God! >>>

Nobody is thumping any bible, but you seem to be determined not to see to what is staring you in the face.

Tell me , what about the Raja Janak shabad quoted earlier, this is a clear description of a maha-atma going into hell and releasing its occupants………. Another mere metaphor……….me thinks not!

[AK-47]

lol randip there aint any stopping you is there!!

Strange how 99% of these scholars seem to think the same thing, while its seems 99% of everyone else disagrees with you and these 99% of scholars!!

anyway id rather trust a gurmukh who has done bhagti then a scholar who just studies!

Practice is the way ... not just studying but the doing!!

You have insulted guru sahib again and again on various posts, sometimes questioning guru sahibs shakti, other times questioining the power of gurbani and now even questioing simple things like swarg and narkh. and i dnt really care if u get into a huff and a puff over the fact that i said ur insulting them, because in my honest opinion u are. u disagree fine. it doesnt bother me one bit.

why do u like to pigeon hole every thing so that it only has one meaning! yes heaven and hell can exisit on earth, yes gurmukhs dont care about heaven or earth all they care about is gods name, yes there are many heavens and many hells, yes the khands refer to both spiritual and physical places, yes dharam rajh passes judgement, yes we have karam, yes we have sin otherwise gurbani would not talk of washing our sins, yessss there are many many different understandings of the concepts of heaven and hell!!! not one, non contradictory but many! just depends on ur avastha and bhagti.

You say you speak to people with knowledge yet are not willing to read the knowedge gained by another gurmukh bhai randhir singh ji may i ask why? why listen to the views of other and not his and then say u would rather jus read gurbani?! lol i take it ur understanding of katha and veechar has reached that high a level that u can do khoj of every shabad yourself then yeh? that which takes many people there entire lives to get ready to do parchar of shabads you can now do? well done u randip!!!

You guys jus carry on man, when were all hangng upside down gettin shitar fer puta lagoo if heaven and hell and punishment exists or not for all of us!!

Have fun!! :TH:

[Bundha]

I am not surprised that you like Bal Singh’s “Lala Wooooo Womb story”, I think it falls nicely with your way of thinking, but it seems neither you nor Bal Singh have any inkling of how and when and in what context this shabad “Abh meh apni katha bikhanoo……” was uchaared (composed), let me enlighten you.

When Guru Gobind Singh Ji became Guru, Sahib Ji was only 9 years old. All the officials and Masandhs thought that Guru Ji was just a baal, a child and that they would be the real people incharge behind the scenes. They flexed their muscles and did what Massandhs do and tried to run things in the Gurus household.

Guru Ji obviously knew what was going on but the hunkaared Masandhs carried on with their activities.

Then one day after divan Guru Sahib Ji in full regal regalia, with beautiful kalgi, full shastar, got up infront of the congregation and with joshe uchaared this shabad. This was to let all those present who he was and what his mission was.

Guru Sahib Ji said – do not think of me as just a baal (child) , THIS is who I am and where I come from, and in this shabad Guru Ji says I am the one who did tapasia on Hemkunt mountain, the same place as the Raja of the Pandovs, and I became One with Akalpurkh (I may be a child in your eyes but do not be fooled by my appearance, this is who I really am) Guru ji then go on to tell them how he did not want to be disturbed in AkalPurkhs charan but was sent on a mission to matloke.

Now, in this context, it is silly to go off on the metaphor path as Guru Sahib Ji wanted to tell the Masandhs directly and forcefully who he was.

But alas, I feel this will be just some more water poured on hand stone (metaphor !!!!!)

[Bundha]

LOL,

<<< when were all hangng upside down gettin shitar fer puta lagoo if heaven and hell and punishment exists or not for all of us >>>

[Bundha]

You are right AK-47 people will always believe a jumped up scholar over a Gursikh.

Scholars have no naam abhias, no avasta they will research this that and the other and come up with another theory. We will believe them rather then a Gursikh. In the grand scheme of things Phd’s mean nothing, professorship’s mean nothing, what matters is copious amounts of Simran and once your dasam dawar is opened then all is revealed to you, but will anyone listen ?

Take this Bal Singh, I do not know if you have read his story, but it will make your blood boil. Out of nowhere he states that the shabad “Abh meh apni katha bikhano….” is about Guru Sahib Ji’s time in the womb ??????? This is a guy with a silly imagination who just cannot believe that there is anything other then what he can touch feel or see and so has to make sense of this shabad by this idiotic fantasy.

Randip Ji I feel your are going to be stuck in your metaphors for a while yet, may Guru sahib Ji do kirpa on you….yaar.

[randip singh]

<<< Interesting you say that the stories of the Guru's were false. >>>

Do not put words in my mouth Randip Ji. This is not what I said, I believe these not to be mere stories. What I said was that IF these were mere stories then Guru Sahib Ji would have nothing to do with them. Try to keep up yaar!

147624[/snapback]

Getting a taste of your own medicine. You always try and put words in other people’s mouths. Here’s and example of where the truth comes and bites you back.

<<< Bal Singh of sikh-history.com, described this beautifully as Guruji description of life in the womb. >>>

Lol,  I know of this Bal Singh article and this is the most silly piece of fiction I have read in a long time, I couldn’t stop laughing at the absurdity of this guy who plucks things straight of the air. 

Hmmmmmmmm  let me think,  what can I make this a metaphor for, I KNOW the WOMB and off he goes straight into LaLa Land.  I am  surprised at you Randip Ji, and educated man like yourself falling for this rubbish!

147624[/snapback]

Well if I remember correctly you were utterly defeated on sikh-history.com by a group of men who were all sikh scholars including Bal Sngh. Bal Singh is not here to defend himself but I would say he is a million times more knowledgeable than you.

His views are not swayed by semi-hinduism like yours, and are very objective.

<<You are contradicting yourself! >> 

No contradiction.

<<<How can immortal beings die, unless of course they are not immortal? make your mind up, which is it? >>>

Devtay are not immortal, they have a life span, be it mega mega times longer then ours but at the end they also are taken by Kaal, so no contradiction.

147624[/snapback]

LOL this is the funniest this I have ever read!

So these Hindu Gods weren’t Gods after all? What are you saying?

<<< In many ways this reminds me of Bible thumpers who claim Jesus is the only son of God!  >>>

Nobody is thumping any bible, but you seem to be determined not to see to what is staring you in the face.

Tell me , what about the Raja Janak shabad quoted earlier, this is a clear description of a maha-atma going into hell and releasing its occupants………. Another mere metaphor……….me thinks not!

147624[/snapback]

If you can’t understand metaphors than that is fine. I won’t judge you honestly.

I am determined not to be clouded by a shroud of ignorance, or swayed by Hindu and Semitic beliefs.

[randip singh]

AK-47

you stated:

You have insulted guru sahib again and again on various posts, sometimes questioning guru sahibs shakti

Now as you know normally I do bother answering your posts because they lack any substance or any ability to judge.

BUT don't ever make remarks about me insulting Guru Sahib. That is pure slander.

[Bundha]

<<<< So these Hindu Gods weren’t Gods after all? What are you saying? >>>>

Randip Ji I think you are confused with the word 'GODS.'

Now, even you will admit there is just one GOD, Akalpurkh, these "gods" are not lots of gods but devtay. In english they are refered to as gods, but rather they are more on par with angels, if you like. Never the less they all have a finite life and succomb to kaal.

The rest.................... you are just rambling.