Hazoor Sahib

[N30S1NGH]

Arti-arta ceremony would be hindu ceremony when-

if we doing arti of pictures, morti, baut etc

but if we doing arti of sri guru granth sahib maharaj along with sri dasam granth then it's not hindu ritual anymore, but is outer form of devotion towards shabad guru? surely you agree, naam is in sri guru granth sahib ji. then why feel uncomfortable if someone wish to show sharda and pyaar towards naam, guru (chaten saroop) in form of arti? surely we are not doing arti of a picture, morti, baut but expressing our love and sharda in form of doing arti of sri gurdev ji which in in shabad form? no one is saying - arti outer ritual will give you salvation but its just a form of devotion just like chaur sahib seva is form of devotion.

[Gupt daasan daas]

veer je i get wa u sayin

and i wud agree

if GURU JE HIMSELF handt told us wat the true ARTHEE IS

its NAAM

its like

if guru je says dont eat tha, it wont please me, eat this instea

and u go right ahead and eat wa guru je told u NOT TO EAT

and didnt eat wa guru je WANTS U TO EAT

dont make no sence does it

guru je true devotion is naam

if u want to show ure pyaar for them, NAAM is the arthee veer je

i think gurbanee is evry clear on this

chaour is a sign of resepct as was done in muslim courts, hindu courts, etc. its a universal sign of respect for a king

i think we discuessed tha already:D

bhula chuka maf

[N30S1NGH]

anyway, gupt dasan das, just talked to jasdev singh sevadar of taksal in toronto regarding this issue:

may you allow me to post what he said? just quoting:

Edited - You did not ask for his permission before posting it.

[Gupt daasan daas]

well ill talk to veer je when i can

but as far as ive talked to singhs as a little kid, and on the site, arthee is banned in taksal itself, the hindu way

i think wa jasdev singh je is sayi

we dont say nuthin to em

out of reespect to keep ektha

like taksal dont agrree with chatka either

but it wont start punkin nihang singhs when they do it, to keep the peace

but im almost 100 percent sure taksla is agasint arrthee

bhula chula maf

[N30S1NGH]

well ill talk to veer je when i can

but as far as ive talked to singhs as a little kid, and on the site, arthee is banned in taksal itself, the hindu way

i think wa jasdev singh je is sayi

we dont say nuthin to em

out of reespect to keep ektha

like taksal dont agrree with chatka either

but it wont start punkin nihang singhs when they do it, to keep the peace

but im almost 100 percent sure taksla is agasint arrthee

bhula chula maf

150496[/snapback]

yaar give it up already i already posted stuff in bold for you:

Edited

[Gupt daasan daas]

well thas jasdev singh jes opinion

the site for taksal says NO

and from w/e ive knwon as a kid taksalis have always said tha stuff is bipran ke reeth

and gurbanee says the real arthee is naam

so wa u think im gonna pick?

bhula chuka maf

[N30S1NGH]

gurbanee says the real arthee is naam

yeah so we do arti of sri guru granth sahib ji , Naam which resides in sri guru granth sahib. gurbani says arthi is naam, now think about it, in hazoor sahib of whom they are doing arthi? they are doing arthi of that naam resides in shabad guru to push further/re-affirm to prove that naam is real arthi? make sense?

[Gupt daasan daas]

thas a inccorect translation nfrom wa i kno veer je

NAAM thero arthee MAJAN MURARAI

it says naam is ure arthee( a devotinal prayer done by hindus to devthai) and naam is my like purifiyng bath

then the rest of the shsabad gors ion to to say tha its all about naam, this is the true arthee

and i aint taksals rep opr voice

jus cause i says somethindont mean taksal agree witit

but im sayin from wa i kno, which can obviously be wrong, taksla is agasint arthee as done by hindus

bhula chuka maf

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Coconut and joat are also manmat as coconut has no reason to be there.

As for joat, we have electricity now, no need to light it. Generators are also available.

Joat comes from hindus and represents aagan devtaa. That is why it is still there.

Lamps which provide more light than joat have been long developed.

Aarti is hindu for sure.

Read the Shabad!

poQI purwx kmweIAY ] Bau vtI iequ qin pweIAY ] (25-18, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)

pothee puraan kamaa-ee-ai. bha-o vatee it tan paa-ee-ai.

Let the reading of your prayer book be the oil, and let the Fear of God be the wick for the lamp of this body.

scu bUJxu Awix jlweIAY ]2] (25-18, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)

sach boojhan aan jalaa-ee-ai. ||2||

Light this lamp with the understanding of Truth. ||2||

iehu qylu dIvw ieau jlY ] (25-18, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)

ih tayl deevaa i-o jalai.

Use this oil to light this lamp.

dIvw myrw eyku nwmu duKu ivic pwieAw qylu ] (358-7, Awsw, mÚ 1)

deevaa mayraa ayk naam dukh vich paa-i-aa tayl.

The One Name is my lamp; I have put the oil of suffering into it.

nwmu qyrw dIvw nwmu qyro bwqI nwmu qyro qylu ly mwih pswry ] (694-16, DnwsrI, Bgq rivdws jI)

naam tayraa deevaa naam tayro baatee naam tayro tayl lay maahi pasaaray.

Your Name is the lamp, and Your Name is the wick. Your Name is the oil I pour into it.

nwm qyry kI joiq lgweI BieE auijAwro Bvn sglwry ]2] (694-16, DnwsrI, Bgq rivdws jI)

naam tayray kee jot lagaa-ee bha-i-o uji-aaro bhavan saglaaray. ||2||

Your Name is the light applied to this lamp, which enlightens and illuminates the entire world. ||2||

The verses above clearly state that there is no reason to light lamps or candles or create other types of fires for worship. Wick lamps were used in the old times because electricity was not yet developed. These days there is no reason to light lamps. This is an act of Brahmanism. It is also wrong according to the code of conduct from Sri Akal Takht Sahib. The focus should be on meditation on the name of God, not on a lamp or a candle. These lamps were never lit in Gurudwaras before the mid 18th century. When Sikhs went into jungles and Udasis were told to take care of Gurudwaras, Udasis under the effect of Brahmanism started glowing these lamps in Gurudwaras as aagan devta di pooja or worship of god of fire.

[Shinda]

Namstang, seems to have pulled a card from the works of Gurmant Grewal. Next time you have a conversation with anyone, I suggest you at least ask them before pasting onto message boards.

Lastly I also think next time you shoud clarify deeper yourself before using individuals to raise these comments. In what you pasted above all Jasdev Singh said was that Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh never took a stand against Arti-aarta but that was clearly after establshing the above that Taksal itself does not practice it.

Same manour that Taksal does not speak out against Chatka, or Sukh, yet it does not practice them, or encourage these practices, simply because these are petty issues that exist within the Panth right now.

I even went to the extent of calling Jasdev Singh, after reading your posts to clarify what he was saying, and he again reiterated those abouve thoughts.

Lastly as for your comments about Mehta Taksal returning to its roots. I personally, and had my sentiments echoed back after sharing them with other Singhs, found these quite insulting towards the Jatha itself. Mehta Taksal was always under the leadership of Great Panthic Mahpurskhs from Sant Giani Kartaar Singh to Sant Giani Jarnail Singh to Sant Baba Takhur Singh. To say that a dusht like Dhumma is restoring and fullfilling the tasks as if he was greater then these Sikhs is indeed profoundly insulting, considering he himself does not come any where near these Singhs, espeically with the rap sheet that he has.

I apologize for going off from the genuine topic, but in closing Taksal is against the practice of Arti-artaa and for that reason does not practice this itself. It was Sant Kartaar Singh Ji's bachan to never talk ill about any Takhat, and to get darshan of these places with shardaa in their hearts and not focus on things they disagree with such as the Maryada.