Hazoor Sahib

[Lion(LK)King]

Namstang, if Amritpal Singh opposes some of the traditions at Hazoor Sahib - then why do you insist that hazoor sahib has puratan Maryada+ Can you refute his research?

Ii you're saying that hazoor sahib has GURMAT MARYADA - then it goes agianst what Amritpal Singh says - which means you must have done some MASSIVE research to prove this. please provide us with this, as you keep on insisting it is THE GURMAT maryada.

Prof Sahib Singh is clear -

ArQ :—swrw AwkwS (mwno) Qwl hY [ sUrj qy cMd (aus Qwl ivc) dIvy bxy hoey hn [ qwirAW dy smUh, mwno, (Qwl ivc) moqI r`Ky hoey hn [ mlX prbq vloN Awaux vwlI hvw, mwno, DUp (DuK irhw) hY [ hvw cOr kr rhI hY [ swrI bnspqI joiq-rUp (pRBU dI AwrqI) vwsqy Pu`l dy rhI hY [1[

hy jIvW dy jnm mrn nws krn vwly! (kudriq ivc) qyrI kYsI suMdr AwrqI ho rhI hY! (sB jIvW ivc rumk rhI) ie`ko jIvn-rO, mwno, qyrI AwrqI vwsqy nwgwry v`j rhy hn [1[rhwau[

(sB jIvW ivc ivAwpk hox krky) hzwrW qyrIAW A`KW hn (pr, inrwkwr hox krky, hy pRBU!) qyrIAW koeI A`KW nhIN [ hzwrW qyrIAW SklW hn, pr qyrI koeI BI Skl nhIN hY [ hzwrW qyry sohxy pYr hn, (pr inrwkwr hox krky) qyrw ie`k BI pYr nhIN [ hzwrW qyry n`k hn, pr qUM n`k qoN ibnw hI hYN [ qyry Ajyhy kOqkW ny mYƒ hYrwn kIqw hoieAw hY [1[

swry jIvW ivc ieko auhI prmwqmw dI joqI vrq rhI hY [ aus joiq dy prkwS nwl swry jIvW ivc cwnx (sUJ-bUJ) hY [ pr ies joiq dw igAwn gurU dI is`iKAw nwl hI huMdw hY [ (gurU rwhIN ieh smJ pYNdI hY ik hryk dy AMdr prmwqmw dI joiq hY) [ (ies srb-ivAwpk joiq dI) AwrqI ieh hY ik jo kuJ aus dI rzw ivc ho irhw hY, auh jIv ƒ cMgw l`gy (pRBU dI rzw ivc qurnw pRBU dI AwrqI krnI hY) [3[

hy hrI! qyry crn-rUp kOl-Pu`lW dy rs leI myrw mn llcWdw hY, hr roz mYƒ iesy rs dI ipAws l`gI hoeI hY [ mYƒ nwnk ppIhy ƒ AwpxI imhr dw jl dyh, ijs (dI brkiq) nwl mYN qyry nwm ivc itikAw rhW [4[3[

not :—AwrqI—{Awirq, AwrwiZkw} dyvqy dI mUrqI jW iksy pUjX A`gy dIvy Gumw ky pUjw krnI [ ihMdU mq Anuswr cwr vwrI crnW A`gy, do vwrI nwBI auqy, ie`k vwrI mUMh auqy Aqy s`q vwrI swry srIr auqy dIvy Gumwxy cwhIdy hn [ dIvy ie`k qoN lY ky iek sO qk huMdy hn [ gurU nwnk dyv jI ny ies AwrqI dI inKyDI kr ky krqwr dI kudrqI AwrqI dI vifAweI kIqI hY [

You saying you researched more on Gurbani Than Prof Sahib SIngh?

You know more about Gurbani than Bhai Gurdas Ji? [shabad provided by Ms veer Ji]

vah jee vah!

Although I must comment that I like that you oppose black and white Sikhi, because SIkhi was never meant to be black and white - on controversial subjects especially...

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Coconut and joat are also manmat as coconut has no reason to be there.

As for joat, we have electricity now, no need to light it. Generators are also available.

Joat comes from hindus and represents aagan devtaa. That is why it is still there.

Lamps which provide more light than joat have been long developed.

Aarti is hindu for sure.

Read the Shabad!

poQI purwx kmweIAY ] Bau vtI iequ qin pweIAY ] (25-18, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)

pothee puraan kamaa-ee-ai. bha-o vatee it tan paa-ee-ai.

Let the reading of your prayer book be the oil, and let the Fear of God be the wick for the lamp of this body.

scu bUJxu Awix jlweIAY ]2] (25-18, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)

sach boojhan aan jalaa-ee-ai. ||2||

Light this lamp with the understanding of Truth. ||2||

iehu qylu dIvw ieau jlY ] (25-18, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)

ih tayl deevaa i-o jalai.

Use this oil to light this lamp.

dIvw myrw eyku nwmu duKu ivic pwieAw qylu ] (358-7, Awsw, mÚ 1)

deevaa mayraa ayk naam dukh vich paa-i-aa tayl.

The One Name is my lamp; I have put the oil of suffering into it.

nwmu qyrw dIvw nwmu qyro bwqI nwmu qyro qylu ly mwih pswry ] (694-16, DnwsrI, Bgq rivdws jI)

naam tayraa deevaa naam tayro baatee naam tayro tayl lay maahi pasaaray.

Your Name is the lamp, and Your Name is the wick. Your Name is the oil I pour into it.

nwm qyry kI joiq lgweI BieE auijAwro Bvn sglwry ]2] (694-16, DnwsrI, Bgq rivdws jI)

naam tayray kee jot lagaa-ee bha-i-o uji-aaro bhavan saglaaray. ||2||

Your Name is the light applied to this lamp, which enlightens and illuminates the entire world. ||2||

The verses above clearly state that there is no reason to light lamps or candles or create other types of fires for worship. Wick lamps were used in the old times because electricity was not yet developed. These days there is no reason to light lamps. This is an act of Brahmanism. It is also wrong according to the code of conduct from Sri Akal Takht Sahib. The focus should be on meditation on the name of God, not on a lamp or a candle. These lamps were never lit in Gurudwaras before the mid 18th century. When Sikhs went into jungles and Udasis were told to take care of Gurudwaras, Udasis under the effect of Brahmanism started glowing these lamps in Gurudwaras as aagan devta di pooja or worship of god of fire.

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[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

just wanted to add something..

sikhi's stronghold has always been the majha region of Punjab. the majha has the great city of amritsar in it. whenever sikhi was in danger, it was sikhs from this region that upheld the sikh dharam with their heads. from the mughal periods to the jhujharoos of the 1980s and 1990s, most were from the majha region, taran taaran, etc.

The maryada followed by sri harmandir sahib can be considered the purest sikh maryada as it is located in a region dominated by sikhs throughout its history. the farther we get from punjab, the ancestral homeland of the sikhs in hindustan, we see many influences of vedic traditions alongside sikh practices.

people complain about how sikh youth in the west are forgeeting their mother tongue punjabi and need to learn gurmukhi to keep their culture and faith alive. This is great but let's look at india. when one leaves Punjab and enters delhi, most sikhs and their children in delhi cannot speak punjabi and cannot write in gurmukhi. they only live a few hours from punjab! A friend of ours came to america from delhi and she said she never knew how to speak punjabi until she came to america and hung out with punjabis at school. there was a vaisakhi program here and one of the hosts was a doctor from delhi and he couldn't even speak punjabi properly and kept mixing in hindi.

so my point is that as one gets farther and farther away from punjab in india, one sees many influences on the sikh way of life, culturally and religiously. a country domianted by 900 million hindus which has always tried to assimilate sikhi into the hindu fold, evident by the hindu marriage act and the indian constitution, will have some impact on a minority religion's identity. this is fact.

we all know sikh history. we all know that the mahants did not respect sikh maryada. when the sikhs lived in jungles and the gurdwaras were in teh hands of mahants, many un-sikh-like rituals were brought in. the singh sabha movement brought back sikh maryada. Now if we want to believe that gurdwaras in maharashtra or other states besides punjab have true sikh maryada then we are completely lying to oursleves and turning our back on sikh history. how can gurdwaras dominated by hindu states maintain sikh maryada whereas the punjab state which has been dominated by sikhs for centuries lose original sikh maryada?

aarti and all these other things are not seen in darbar sahib, a place in the heartland of sikhi, the majha region of punjab. those who want to proclaim hazoor sahib maryada as true sikh maryada, well they have their own agendas or hindutva sikhi beliefs. one cannot ignore sikh history and facts about sikhs in india when arguing over this stuff.

just like muslims go to mecca and medina and hindus go to benaras, sikhs look to amritsar as sikhi's foundation.

peace.

[S.S.F]

wjkk wjkf

Namsantang ji is tht the thing (shank( played in mandirs???

also cus u tell me pleez hw taksal mehta changed and its now goijn bak to its roots

bhul chuk maaf

wjkk wjkf

[S.S.F]

wjkk wjkf

gupt ji is chalisi, havans dun at mehta chownk and which Sants(jathedars) did it???

thanks

bhul chuk maaf

wjkk wjkf

[Lion(LK)King]

Jathedar Dhumma (less than a year ago, a few months after passing away of acting jathedar....)

[Gupt daasan daas]

from wa i kno chalisas are importan tin taksal, its a really good thing

havan is forbidden

chlisas have been done through taksal history

and havans have onyl been done under fake jathedar dhummma, but I cannot say if it is a havan, i dunt go all the facts on it, he says it wasnt a havan, i dunt kkno

but he aint even a real jathedar so dont matter, hes a fake and a disgrace

taksal has never done havans

and veer je i think i tried to explain chaour in a copuple of my posts:)

bhula chuka maf

[International Akaali]

I would like too add one thing.... Akal takht tha "jathedar" joginder singh vedanti has givin the thumbs up for hazoor sahib to have dasam granth akhand paats at hazoor sahib putting dasam granth to the level of shri guru granth sahib ji..... kind of interesting why vedanti would do this as whenever he issues a hukanama he needs the signature of all 5 jathedars also this has also givin a clear indication that vedanti has givin the full right of everyone to do dasam granth akhand paat as he hads givin theright too hazoor sahib who will he stop now??????

[Balbir Singh]

Satsriakal to all!

The Khalsa Fauj Ji referred to the wonderful Guru's Shabads

"sach boojhan aan jalaa-ee-ai. ih tayl deevaa i-o jalai." SGGS Ang 25-18

"naam tayraa deevaa naam tayro baatee naam tayro tayl lay maahi pasaaray."

"naam tayray kee jot lagaa-ee bha-i-o uji-aaro bhavan saglaaray." SGGS 694-16

Then he interpreted the Shabads "The verses above clearly state that there is no reason to light lamps or candles or create other types of fires for worship."

Is this not a contradiction?

Gurdev is singing "naam tayray kee jot lagaa-ee bha-i-o uji-aaro bhavan saglaaray."

The Khalsa Fauj is singing "there is no reason to light lamps or candles or create other types of fires for worship."

Please explain it further.

Balbir Singh

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Satsriakal to all!

The Khalsa Fauj Ji referred to the wonderful Guru's Shabads

"sach boojhan aan jalaa-ee-ai. ih tayl deevaa i-o jalai." SGGS Ang 25-18

"naam tayraa deevaa naam tayro baatee naam tayro tayl lay maahi pasaaray."

"naam tayray kee jot lagaa-ee bha-i-o uji-aaro bhavan saglaaray." SGGS 694-16

Then he interpreted the Shabads "The verses above clearly state that there is no reason to light lamps or candles or create other types of fires for worship."

Is this not a contradiction?

Gurdev is singing "naam tayray kee jot lagaa-ee bha-i-o uji-aaro bhavan saglaaray."

The Khalsa Fauj is singing "there is no reason to light lamps or candles or create other types of fires for worship."

Please explain it further.

Balbir Singh

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Well, ifyou didn't take sukha, you would know.

No explanation needed but still i will clarify. I understand.

Well the joat of naam is Gurbani.

"there is no reason to light lamps or candles or create other types of fires for worship." This is the physical joat. The one that is placed in a thaal mostly. You know what i mean too unless you took sukha.

I love sukha jokes!