Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji

[N30S1NGH]

did they simply accept the law of God?

Everything is in hakum of God and karma of this mere mortal, staying gristhi or behangum is not in hands of us mere mortals. It's not a law of God that one shall get married, or one shall go to hell. I mean come on, you guys are making sikh dharam as missionary christianity.

If it's law of God that- One must get married, then is it not also same law of God applies to impotent, 3rd gender(known as hizaraie) ??? how come they don't get married or even if they try to - Get Divorced !!

I don't think God be bias, hypocrite or most importanly self-contradictory when he made laws, to get married.

Edited - Attack the points not the person. Next time you attack anyone indirectly you will receive a warning.

May i also add one sakhi- One of sevaks (baba waryam singh ji) who was affected by divine discourses by sant isher singh ji rara sahib (celibate), went up to sant ji and asked him, if he can live with him forever, sant ji insisted and advised him, no stay in gristhi because you were same waryam singh who asked dharam raja to have gristhi jevan at this life. This shows for me (Atleast), staying gristhi or behangum is not in hands of us mortals.

[Jai Tegang!]

Guru sahib had desire to be married- or did they simply accept the law of God?

Baba Deep Singh Ji, etc had desire? Gyani Jarnail Singh ji had desire to get married? Gyani Kartar Singh Ji had desire to get married?

All of the above, were married, had kids - did any of them do little Parchar ? Can anyone say - "yes this maharapurash who was celebate has done more parchar than these married Gurmukhs"?

152261[/snapback]

I don't think you understood what I meant by "desire". I don't want to use certain terms that may sound offensive in the context of Gursikhs.

I'll repeat my sentence once again and hope you give it a bit more thought and try and understand it =>

...."Singhs who have stayed in the Jatha with Baba Takhur Singh tell that Babaji had totally non-existant feelings required for a married life"....

What that means is that Baba Takhur Singh didn't have even that flicker of kaam, or what ever else you want to call it, required for someone to engage their spouse. Now don't make me explain what I mean by engage. I don't like using certain terms when talking of Guru sahib or his Gursikhs.

And what exactly are you trying to prove with that last bit? Who said being celebate makes one higher or able to do more parchar?

[DhadiMania]

firstly

WHOAAAA!

please answer the question, did baba ji have children or not

i do not want sant ka nindak on this topic as some of this will go on my head as well as those who are saying these souls were incomplete.

answer the question, where do the descendants of baba deep singh ji now live?

i was told sant ji has a son in canada and one in india.

i did not have a problem with people having a question, its just to my knowledge i thought thrse singh sahibs did not get married.

bhul chukke muaff

[SSM]

I dont understand why ppl have prob with such amazing Guru Ji de Sikh if they dont marry- it is encouraged but jus cos they didnt doesnt reduce their title of SIKH.

Gosh, every sikh has their own life, they are individuals and are given different feelings within them so what the heck, live and let live.

They werent against marriage- heck they told their bro to get married to the person they were supposed to.

[jss]

i think people like sikh missionary college and others have misinterpreted the teachings of our gurus...

they claim that people who don't get married are not fulfilling hukam...they aren't true sikhs..this isn't true..

if we look at ithaas..there were many chardi kala gursikhs who weren't married and many that were...

guru sahib didn't say you are nOT allowed to NOT get married...

what they said was getting married doesn't make you less spiritual...this was in conversation with the ascetics who ran away from the world to meditate..guru sahib said..no...that it iS possible to reach high spiritual avastha even while living in family.that we shouldn't run away from it cuz we think it won't let us do simran, seva, sangat...and then as examples...guru sahib lived their lives as married householders so that noone would be mistaken into thinking that they cannot be married and be gursikhs at the same time..

HOWEVER..

they didn't say that you HAVE to get married...some peole just don't feel llike getting maried..but that doesn't mean they're running away..or becoming ascetic...they just feel other responsibilities in thier lives and fulfill those responsibilitiies...there is nothing worng with that and they are not incomplete...

it IS WRONG if we are running away from marriage because we feel we can't be spritiaul..that is wrong..and guru sahib spoke out against it...

BUT if someone just doesnt' feel like getting married..there is NOTHING wrong with that...

hope that helps clear up the misconception..

[Alias Prince]

WATZ UP WID U PPL

[Alias Prince]

A wife is an equal partner and a companion in your journey- so why are most people on this thread trying to make it out as if they were a burden?

If marriage was not important guru ji would not have made the anand karaj?

If a gursikh does think it is something to do with lust i would say their sikhi is not strong enough to fight that demon.

Bhul Chuk Muaf

[SSM]

who is trying to make it out like women are a burden, i thought most ppl on the thread were jus sayin dat if a man dont want to get married then he dont want to get married. course its important to get married but if a man does not have the feelings u need for a wife then no point thinking u must get married regardless cos u have to.

u can be sikh and not marry is all that some ppl r saying me thinks- but i dont think anyone is suggesting women take u away from the spiritual path- only thatmarrying is not necessary.

[Lion(LK)King]

There's no point in discussing it again. Heres the link to the previous discussion just a few weeks ago -

if we look at ithaas..there were many chardi kala gursikhs who weren't married and many that were...

guru sahib didn't say you are nOT allowed to NOT get married...

These have already been mentioned, and it turns out most of these were indeed married, although the wife's name might not have been written in the pages of our hitory, doens't mean they didn't exist

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=16643&hl=

Most claims posted pro celibacy have been responded to in the above thread:

Celibacy is a personal choice but not a pro-Gurmat principle and cannot be justified on the basis of Gurbani. All of the Gurus (except 8th Nanak – because of age) were married while they were head of the Sikh Panth. Celibacy is not a requirement for jathedari of Taksal. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji did not change his way of life after becoming the jathedar. Sikhi does not require anyone to adopt celibacy.

Just like to mention that theres loads of quotes telling Gurmukhs to live Gristi Jeevan, I have yet to encounter one SINGLE quote, acknowleding Celibacy beign accepted.

Namastang, although I agree it's wrong to make black and white out of controversial issues such as abortion, and other moral and ethical issues as Guru Sahib had a reason not mentiong these (considering he mentioned Kuri-mars, he could easily have mentioned banning abortion methods (not ultra sound technics, but technics used at the time), which they did not do) as he left some grey area for these, however Guru Sahib has showed, through their own jeevan as well as through Gurbani, Through Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaara etc, that a Gurmukh is designed for Grist Jeevan, there is absolutely nothing in Guru Sahibaans jeevan, or Gurbani, or Vaara etc, that acknowledge celibacy in a Gursikh's Life. A Gurmukh is designed for Grist Jeevan, and that Guru Sahib showed through his own jeevan, and Gurbani, by PRactising what he preached. If someone decides to practise celibacy, the does not mean it's a pro-gurmat principle.

it IS WRONG if we are running away from marriage because we feel we can't be spritiaul..that is wrong..and guru sahib spoke out against it...

BUT if someone just doesnt' feel like getting married..there is NOTHING wrong with that...

Nor does it make it a pro-gurmat concept. The Concept is that a Sikh Should live a life of a householder, if he decides not to, it's entirely up to him, but that person cannot claim that he's following the teachings of Gurus to the point.

GrbwrI gur isK hoie isKw sUqR ml mUqR ivfwxY]

gharabaaree gur sikh hoe sikhaa soothr mal moothr viddaanai||

The Sikh being householder abnegates tonsure, the sacred thread (Janeu), etc. and forsakes them like abominable faeces.

This is a clear instruction by Bhai Sahib Bhai Gurdas Ji, that a Sikh does and should indeed get married.

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5680

Guru Sahib didn't just say that marriage didn't hinder spirituality but also made the Sikh a "gharbaree", or householder..

crx srx ilvlIx hoie sYNswrI inrMkwrI Bwey]

charan saran livaleen hoe sai(n)asaaree nira(n)kaaree bhaaeae||

Even a worldly person here, concentrating upon the feet of Guru, becomes dear to God, the formless One.

GrbwrI hoie inj Gr jwey ]ù]

gharabaaree hoe nij ghar jaaeae ||a||

Becoming householder, man resides in his innate nature (atman).

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?Sour...=&ShabadID=5905

Those who have already made up their opinion, will not care less what Bhai Sahib Bhai Gurdas Ji Says, and will begin jsutfying other people's actions. Bhai Gurdas Ji's words are clear. Gurbani is clear. If one still has issues, it'äs because they have made up their mind and won't change it no matter what.

This has been discussed many time on this forum already.

Bhull chukk maaf

[SSM]

what i find disturbing is that some months back everyone on this forum was saying how great Baba Thakur Singh Ji were- all this about them going to Sachkhand, and now I am bein told no- cos they weren't really following Guru Ji to the point.

It is extremely disturbing that we are born so capable of finding a wrong in other ppl who are closer to being greatER sikhs than us.

Now, I agree that grist jeevan is important but then I ask was Guru Ji in their 8th form incomplete in some way? Afterall they did not marry- why if it did not stop Guru Ji from being perfect does it mean that someone older is less of sikh? Is one only a sikh if they do everything by a set time?

To give an example, I know one person who did not marry as he did not wish to but then when he grew older he decided to marry but he did just as much path and sewa at both times.

So lets assume he had passed away at 45 unmarried, would that make him less sikh than he was at say 45 1/2 when he did wed?

Does it make sense to judge someone like that?

Yes most ppl have made up their mind but then again are u not one of them?

Gurbani- now I would ask, where in Gurbani does it say that a true gursikh is one who weds, please qoute that.

Yes any one can say Gurbani ENCOURAGES us to lead a grist jeevan but does Gurbani clearly state that a sikh is not a sikh or is less of a sikh if he does not wed.

No one seems to answer that. We all got that its a goody idea, but how about its essential- quotes please.

I can understand that grist jeevan is important but I find it hard to believe that Baba Thakur Singh Ji led a less sikh life due to this.