Punjab Female Foeticide

[Ishna]

So what are females good for, seeing as in the Panjab you apparently need to pay someone to marry your daughter?

I think this reflects incredibally poorly on Sikhi, but I also realise there is a line (a fine line) between religion and culture. It is daunting to think that 500 years have passed since Guru Nanak Dev Ji spoke out against this practice and tried to raise females to the same "value" as males, and yet still it has made barely any change.

The situation makes people look at the Panjab and judge Sikhi according to the culture there, just like how people judge Islam by the culture in Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia.

The book says one thing, the people do another. I'm doubting that when it comes to the crunch, religion can make a difference in a society. If it can't within 500 years (and the same is true of any religion, not just Sikhi), then can it at all?

I don't know. The idea of an "ideal world" is different for everybody, and it must be very hard for a society to change their ways when that's how that society has evolved to where it is today. For a group of people with different ideas, beliefs and traditions to co-ordinate themselves to a level of serious change within their community takes a long time of cultural "evolution".

It's a very sad situation.

[Singh132]

I think a dichotomy we all struggle with at some point is the Punjabi/Sikh divide.

I am of the firm opinion that one cannot follow Sikhism if they choose to live by Punjabi cultural norms. I don't think there is a fine line between the two. It's pretty big.

Punjabi culture devalues women, believes in caste, is proud of hard drinking, requires worship of dead ancestors and many other plainly anti-Sikh beliefs.

Does religion have an impact on society? Sure it does. If there is someone to do parchar. Christian missionaries are using the story of Christ to show how he died for the sins of humanity and are becoming quite successful in the villages.

I have to ask myself, if someone told of the sacrifices of Guru Arjan who showed total tranquility under the most horrifying of circumstances or talked of how Guru Gobind Singh sent his own sons into battle and watched as they fell to countless blows, how the people of Punjab could even think of looking elsewhere.

Also, Ishna, you quote the Rehit Maryada about engagement ceremonies and how there is the giving of a kirpan and other things. This is certainly not a dowry. The bride and groom exchange the 5 kakaars. This would be as much of a dowry as Western couples exchanging rings. A dowry is more like demands of cars, appliances, money, etc.

[Ishna]

You make some good points Singh132 Ji.

I don't really know enough about the Punjab to discuss the topic in much depth. From my Western perspective there does seem to be a sort of idealist idea about the Punjabi lifestyle with relation to Sikhi. Like, it's best to learn Punjabi language if you want to be a "real Sikh", and the Rehit Maryada really is structured with a Punjabi lifestyle in mind. Applying it in the West seems like trying to wear shoes three sizes too big! It just doesn't seem to fit, and then one starts to think, "So to be a devoted Sikh I need to try to emulate this Punbaji culture."

And with regards to the line I quoted -- where is the corresponding line pertaning to gifts given to the female? There seems to be that shadow of a glorifying the male there. And I'm sorry if I offend, I mean to disrespect towards the Rehit.

But I digress from the original topic. Do you see a solution to this problem, Singh132?

Ishna.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"The situation makes people look at the Panjab and judge Sikhi according to the culture there, just like how people judge Islam by the culture in Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia."

that is an untrue statement. saudia arabia, Iran, afghanistan govern their countries according to islamic law(sharia), whereas Punjab is not governed by Gurmat laws but rather by the indian constituion which is "secular." people judge those countries based on laws governing rape of women, death of non-muslims,a nd right for non muslims to worship freely. saudia arabians are arabian, iranians are persian, and afghanistanis are pathaans, pashtos, etc. culturally they are all different but their countries are governed by similar laws of islam. three different cultures yet all three countries require women to veil themselves from head to toe and must be accompanied by a male at all times.

peace.

[Singh132]

Sikhi does have a culture: There is a style of dress, language (Gurmukhi), martial arts, music (traditional kirtan), distinct celebrations, distinct life cycle events.

The fact that Punjabi culture has appropriated and twisted some of these aspects of Sikh culture like using Sikh marriages but adding all kinds of inappropriate things.

What is the solution? On a small scale I believe there is a need to embrace Sikhi as much as we can. I also feel there is a need for spreading the message but that's only possible when we are living it ourselves.

[Lion(LK)King]

(f) Marriage may not be preceded by engagement ceremony. But if an engagement ceremony is sought to be held, a congregational gathering should be held and, after offering the Ardas before the Guru Granth Sahib, a kirpan, a steel bangle and some sweets may be tendered to the boy.

Doesn't this class as dowry of a kind?

http://allaboutsikhs.com/rehat/rehat_04.htm#art18

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Insha, jeyo there is no reason why this should be class as a dowry, since it says may, in other word it is not a must. Some Punjabis (since they are like they are) don't like to go "khali hath", so instead of giving, cooking pans, furniture, beds, hondas, marutis, and what not... One can simply give a Kirpan, Kara and some sweets.

That's pretty simple, compared to typical Punjabi dowry stuff.

m) If the girl's parents at any time or on any occasion visit their daughter's home and a meal is ready there, they should not hesitate to eat there. Abstaining fromeating at the girl's home is a superstition. The Khalsa has been blessed with the boon of victuals and making others eat by the Guru and the Immortal Being. The girl's and boy's people should keep accepting each other's hospitality, because the Guru has joined them in relationship of equality.

Please read the entire Rehit Maryada, and you will see how superstitions and other anti-gurmat elements are banned in it :lol:

bhull chukk maaf

[SINGH20]

[Ishna]

mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan: From a fairly culturally-naive Western perspective, I know that the primary religion in the areas mentioned is Islam. I see on the news, in the paper, on the Internet the way the people in those countries are treated and I judge the religion there accordingly. I believe I'm not the only culturally-naive person to do that.

In that same fashion it is tempting to look at Punjab, know that the main religion there is Sikhi (please correct me if I am wrong), look at the way the people there are treated, and judge the religion accordingly.

It is a flawed approach, nothing so important should be judged so hastily, but it happens a lot.

Thank you for clearing up my own misconception.

LionKing: I have read most of the Rehat Maryada, including the part you quoted. And I guess I can see how, by saying "instead of these exuberant gifts, you can give a kirpan, kara and sweets" is a step towards the middle ground. Thanks for making the comparison for me. :lol:

Ishna.

[proud_to_be_singhni]

Has anyone seen the recent new panjabi song from a well known artist , forgot the guys name...

basic lyrics... NAA MAARI NA.....NO DONT DO IT, NO....

guys singing about this young woman about to have a abortion but as she doesnt want what her husband wants she decides to kill herself and the unborn girl, its a very sad video but really hits home....and i can see some women will be in tears after it. The girl ends up becoming a gradute in medicine at end of vid and mum looks on happily, showing how she'll make it in her life and can do as well as anyone.

media influence such as that is needed, songs whatever hit people bigger than anything else.

[singh_comradz]

Has anyone seen the recent new panjabi song from a well known artist , forgot the guys name...

basic lyrics... NAA MAARI NA.....NO DONT DO IT, NO....

guys singing about this young woman about to have a abortion but as she doesnt want what her husband wants she decides to kill herself and the unborn girl, its a very sad video but really hits home....and i can see some women will be in tears after it. The girl ends up becoming a gradute in medicine at end of vid and mum looks on happily, showing how she'll make it in her life and can do as well as anyone.

media influence such as that is needed, songs whatever hit people bigger than anything else.

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sarbjit cheema

which organisations are actively trying to combat this problem and how can we support them???