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[Guest A Singh.]

I am not upset Veer Ji, perhaps I am not expressing myself clearly enough.

Perhaps you are not aware, that within the world of Gurbani interpretation, there is a huge amount of variation. If you consult some people, for example Gyani Takhur Singh, you will find that he will believe there to be many different meanings to a single line, Padh Chedh-ing the line in various ways. Whereas, if you take a Gyani from the Professor Sahib Singh school of thought, he will tell you there is a single meaning based as well as a Gurbani Grammar system which helps Padh Chedh the line in a single way.

Most likely the current translator who many are now complaing about was very well versed in Gurbani, but he originated from a different school of thought which those who are pro-Sant, will not agree with. Conversely if Gyani Takhur Singh gave his interpretation of the Aarth of Gurbani, there would be just as many people complaining. You have talked about interpretating Bani with one's own Buddhi but this is what every learned individual on Gurbani will have to do. At the end of the day every translation is a product of one's own Matt so the point you hold that massive Beadbi is going on as people put their own interpretation into Gurbani, does not hold any substance.

I hope the above has made you understand a little more clearly.

[Lionchild]

well there is bound to be some compromises or words that can't be easily made out in translations, especially english, probably the worst language to translate anything into. It's not really the order or sound of words that matter, it's the underlying principles that count.

[N30S1NGH]

I am not upset Veer Ji, perhaps I am not expressing myself clearly enough.

Perhaps you are not aware, that within the world of Gurbani interpretation, there is a huge amount of variation. If you consult some people, for example Gyani Takhur Singh, you will find that he will believe there to be many different meanings to a single line, Padh Chedh-ing the line in various ways. Whereas, if you take a Gyani from the Professor Sahib Singh school of thought, he will tell you there is a single meaning based as well as a Gurbani Grammar system which helps Padh Chedh the line in a single way.

Most likely the current translator who many are now complaing about was very well versed in Gurbani, but he originated from a different school of thought which those who are pro-Sant, will not agree with. Conversely if Gyani Takhur Singh gave his interpretation of the Aarth of Gurbani, there would be just as many people complaining. You have talked about interpretating Bani with one's own Buddhi but this is what every learned individual on Gurbani will have to do. At the end of the day every translation is a product of one's own Matt so the point you hold that massive Beadbi is going on as people put their own interpretation into Gurbani, does not hold any substance.

I hope the above has made you understand a little more clearly.

different school of thought, all that is good.

But it really matters if that school of thought has any paramapara(lineage) came from Guru's time, or if this school of thought had any teacher who had expereinced Gurbani on spiritual level. If not then, I don't think that school of thought is qualified to translate Maha Pandar "Sri Guru Granth Sahib".

If i don't have qualifications to translate gurbani then i would rather not even try to translate because i know it may lead to grave misinterpertations. I think misinterpertating your guru is a sin itself.

If you wish to do seva, make sure you do seva which you are sure of/or have proper qualification of doing seva. Having a pure intention to do guru di seva is not only thing you need, you need bibek buddhi as well.

It just amazes me, how new age sikhs while they do one line translations forget about uthanka(historical context) and adhatamic context(spiritual context) of gurbani which is leading them to do misinterpertation of gurbani.

Before someone tells me, what don't i help ? I would tell them, i m still at learning stage, i don't think it's work of jagaiso(learner) like me to translate what guru sahiban is saying, only a bhramgyani and atam gyani can translate gurbani based on their real time spiritual expereinces. In other words, the ones who can translate the bani who have been expereinced gurbani on spiritual level while recitation.

So people who are doing this seva, ask yourself if you have expereince gurbani on spiritual level. If not, we should leave the seva which we don't deserve, there are many other small seva's out there which you can do while learning about mahan seva.

How could a new age scholar can get away with translating gurbani verse into one line, which past age mahapursh spent all their life translating just bits of gurbani into granth itself.

Apparently there are and were enuf nirmala's, sevapanthis, taksali mahapurshs who spent lot of their time and effort, translating mool mantar, japji sahib into huge huge steeks. For example apparently there are 100,000 arths of Vahiguroo Mantar, there are thousand of thousands hours of adhatamic katha of sri guru granth sahib by various mahapursh. There is 30 hrs of audio katha itself just on japji sahib by gyani thakur singh ji. Please look into this thread: you will know i m not bluffing when i m saying gurbani is very deep- just look at this thread:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=15451 . Its not work of jaaigso to translate gurbani but work of bhramgyani and atam gyani.

[dass]

Was going to ask those who have written such verse and chapter that have they been through all the tuks relating to sant ??? if they have I don't think you would be sitting on the net trying to prove that chaning the word to devotee makes a lot of difference, what is a sant ??? is it not a devottee who has full sharda and bhavna in Guru Ji ??? first work what you are talking about in relation to the word sant ??? to become a sant you have to be devoted to something first, we may all think we are in the devotees category but look inwards and realise we are not even in the sikh category with the way we have written our emails...

[Jai Tegang!]

i think it's time for those of us who believe in the puratan/traditional intrepretation of gurbani to create a translation that encompases what we consider to be more accurate. I see no solution to this issue as the missionary lot are going to contniue in their chosen direction.

sure it'll create a "split", but it's just as important for those of us who believe in the sanctity of authentic translations of gurbani to have our version available. begging these people who have issues with sant/sadh shabd in gurbani is never going to bear fruit.

to each his own.

[ParnaamShaheedaNu]

It's quite funny isn't it because it has nothing to do with believing in "Sant" or not. It's about the direct translation being wrong. The word "Sant" literally translates into Saint, not Guru, even if someone thinks it means that. Therefore we have no right to alter the literal word from Gurbani, translating it into something inconsistent. What I mean to say is, if Satguru Ji wanted it to be translated as "Guru", why did they use the word "Sant" in the first place? The two words are different.

Challo. I never use this thing so I am sorry if I've said anything to hurt anyone

bhul chuk maaf

[Daas]

Personally I think it the word sant does not always mean saint, sahi puran sant is not referring to a saint, only Guru Ji is puran, humans are fallable, also the one thing i've never understood from those in favour of the word saint, how do you become a sant ????

[ParnaamShaheedaNu]

But Daas jee, what is the literal definition of the word "Sant"

[Daas]

this is where I probably differ in opinion sant, gurmukh, bramh gyani, aren't labels we can give to individuals as we cannot recognise them, only those on a similar level or higher will know the state of these souls, the problem arises when shardolas make out this gursikh is a sant and put them on a pedastool, when the gursikh falls from this ladder, they are the first ones to remove is sant title, so who has the right to call anyone a sant ???? literal meaning isn't saint either, what is a saint ??? we need to go deeper into this subject and only then will we understand the sant, gurmukh, brahmn gyani states a gursikh can get to with Guru ji grace, these words are too commonly used now and people start to believe the literal meanings without even contemplating the whole line, there are those who use all the sant tuks to refer to there sant, which makes no sense, for me the only sant, gurmukh, brahmn gynai is Guru ji, as my state of spirituality is of a keera and how can i recognise a sant, gurmukh, brahmn gyani ????

[Bundha]

This is another misconception that no one can recognise a sant. If someone says to you that that person is a doctor, then how do you know he is a doctor? Because he does what a doctor does - takes peoples pulse, checks them administers prescriptions, he is a doctor. A sant, and I am not talking about the fake ones, a true sant can be recognised BUT you have to want to recognise them. If you are of the ilk that you find fault in all and criticize for the sake of it, then a true sant will pass you by and you will not know it. Only with Akalpurkhs kirpa those most fortunate will find and recognise a sant.

<<< there are those who use all the sant tuks to refer to there sant, which makes no sense >>>

I have never met any of these and anyone with even a little intelligence knows that all references to sant do not refer to sandhus and that many do refer to the Guru. The same can be said to those people who use all sant tuks to mean Guru, which also is not correct.

You asked earlier how does one become a sant – the title of sant comes from up above, those sat in satch khand will bestow the title of sant on a maha-soul and send them down to earth to put fools like us on the path of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. No matter how much we criticize them and do nindhyia of them the title of sant remains because it is no earth bestowed honour and their spirituality will shine through no matter what people say.

Now think about it, what will happen to those people who do do this nindhia – but they shout at the top of their voices that this is not nindhia – but these mahapursh have been sent from above and boy some people are going to get some serious chittar !