I Am Not Sikh

[chandanjit kaur]

Fateh

well then i cant say anything now ji......its ur opinion....stay in chardi kala!!!

Fateh

[buddasingh]

Lionchild we have so many punjabi people going around calling themselves Sikh who are too weak to maintain a proper beard or dastar. They believe they have the right to call themselves Sikh because of the family in which they were born. This beleif is akin to that of many of the Hindu faith.

It seems that Hindustan would also prefer to define those people as Hindu, so it's a harmonious fit. Those punjabi Hindus (calling themselves sikh) are still dear brothers and sisters of mine as we share parts of culture and also possibly share history and values although more so with their parents or grandparents.

You on the other hand my dear aboriginal bro who finds Sikhi truly from the inside are the Sikh that I aspire to be. You are the promising future I strive for and the glorious past I search for.

[SSM]

I can't say what you are, I don't know you, but your posts are always good to read so don't ever stop giving your opinion.

Here we are all giving our opinion, some things are obvious such as who our Guru Ji are but most things aren't.

We don't know who Guru Ji has accepted as his own and who He hasn't.

Maybe you're lost but IMHO I think you know the way but you haven't chosen to go that way, so how can you be lost?

Carry on posting!

[MAX]

Bear with me Max, I hope you don't mind me challenging you and picking your brain at the same time.

"Mind" it? I live for it

Max when you are really warm and you wish you had worn shorts, do you strip down to your underwear?

When you are at a red light and there are no vehicles that you could collide with do you run the red light?

Is the state or society showing intolerance by discouraging such "at peace" choices?

OR is it that even in your secular, tolerant, democratic state you adhere to selective order and discipline?

Are your actions/order motivated by fear and apathy of thought. Or are your actions/order motivated by true peace,repect, and love in the form of activism?

Perhaps you don't even identify with Sikhi. If that's the case, then excuse me for my misunderstanding.

I was born into a Sikkh family, to my loving parents, to my wonderful family. I am undecided as to whether or not I believe in karma, but when I look at my incredible fortune, even I wonder what I possibly could have done in a past life that allowed me to be born with such luck. My date of birth is even the same as Guru Nanak's favourite number: 13 (théra, or "yours")

I had worn bana for...oh...twelve years? I eventually cut my hair for no particular reason (I think my dad cut it...I had this funny habbit of squinting with my eyes as a kid...it looked like I was really very awkward...and my dad thought it had something to do with my hair). I had been brought up on tales of heroism and courage and compassion and intelligence of the Ten Masters, and their lives became my life. Apparently, I was questioning why it was that God allowed people to suffer by the age of four, which my mother said really freaked her out. She said (in Punjabi, of course ) "I don't know from where this little Buddha has come into our house" That still makes me laugh even today, but I can't help the fact that I have always asked more questions than people have been comfortable with. My dad apparently had to stop me from speaking to his friends and his elders because I was embarassing them with the replies I was giving to their statements. But, when we were intimate, my parents were very tolerant and encouraged my questioning nature to grow. For that, I am eternally grateful.

Whenever I look at pictures of Guru Nanak, I always feel a sense of brother-ship with him. I can't describe it in words, but I know that I never feel about this way about any Guru. Even Guru Gobind Singh Ji (who actually reminds me of my masar-ji :D ), who is awe-inspiring in his own right.

Now, as a cut-haired Sikkh who sometimes gets a little lazy when it comes to trimming my beard, I look like a typical Muslim. No-one looks me in the eye or treats me normally. Every white person looks down their nose at me. I commute by train twice a week with three big, black bags (back-pack, a sports bag and a briefcase) and pretty much every pair of eyes on the train is staring at me for the full two hours of my journey. In fact, just today (and I just posted this on another board), I was walking down the street and a white dude shouts out "there aren't any Mosques here!". "Well, that's handy since I'm not Muslim", I yelled back. "You look like a Muslim". "If you mean I look like a human being", I said, "then I appreciate your observations, sir".

A few months back, I was crossing the road and a Muslim guy was crossing from the other side. As we passed, he goes "asalaam alikum my Muslim brother". I replied, "I'm not Muslim. But I am your brother".

I've even been physcially attacked (mental note: full beer cans hurt...and your clothes smell when it is open ), verbally abused, and had my family threatened to be killed (including my then-8-year old brother and 12-year old sister) by whites. You would have thought that this would encourage me to shave every day...and yet I refuse to do so. My beard is bigger than it's been for a while, and I refuse to trim it. As long as I can reveal the truth of peoples' ignorance and prejudice using this form of those who decide to speak to me, I am going to use this form to do it.

Bana isn't something I "fear". It's something towards which I am entirely indifferent. It is one's actions, and not one's choice of robes, prayers or lack of haircut that defines who a man or woman is.

So I guess you could say that my "actions/order [are] motivated by true peace,repect, and love in the form of activism"

Lionchild we have so many punjabi people going around calling themselves Sikh who are too weak to maintain a proper beard or dastar. They believe they have the right to call themselves Sikh because of the family in which they were born. This beleif is akin to that of many of the Hindu faith.

It seems that Hindustan would also prefer to define those people as Hindu, so it's a harmonious fit. Those punjabi Hindus (calling themselves sikh) are still dear brothers and sisters of mine as we share parts of culture and also possibly share history and values although more so with their parents or grandparents.

You on the other hand my dear aboriginal bro who finds Sikhi truly from the inside are the Sikh that I aspire to be. You are the promising future I strive for and the glorious past I search for.

"Na koi Hindu, na koi Musalman...na koi Sikkh." ~ Guru Nanak Dev Ji REMIX :D

We don't know who Guru Ji has accepted as his own and who He hasn't.

Ek Onkar.

All is One. One is All.

We are all One with God, whether we realise it or not.

[buddasingh]

Bear with me Max, I hope you don't mind me challenging you and picking your brain at the same time.

"Mind" it? I live for it

I was born into a Sikkh family, to my loving parents, to my wonderful family. I am undecided as to whether or not I believe in karma, but when I look at my incredible fortune, even I wonder what I possibly could have done in a past life that allowed me to be born with such luck. My date of birth is even the same as Guru Nanak's favourite number: 13 (théra, or "yours")

I had worn bana for...oh...twelve years? I eventually cut my hair for no particular reason (I think my dad cut it...I had this funny habbit of squinting with my eyes as a kid...it looked like I was really very awkward...and my dad thought it had something to do with my hair). I had been brought up on tales of heroism and courage and compassion and intelligence of the Ten Masters, and their lives became my life. Apparently, I was questioning why it was that God allowed people to suffer by the age of four, which my mother said really freaked her out. She said (in Punjabi, of course ) "I don't know from where this little Buddha has come into our house" That still makes me laugh even today, but I can't help the fact that I have always asked more questions than people have been comfortable with. My dad apparently had to stop me from speaking to his friends and his elders because I was embarassing them with the replies I was giving to their statements. But, when we were intimate, my parents were very tolerant and encouraged my questioning nature to grow. For that, I am eternally grateful.

Whenever I look at pictures of Guru Nanak, I always feel a sense of brother-ship with him. I can't describe it in words, but I know that I never feel about this way about any Guru. Even Guru Gobind Singh Ji (who actually reminds me of my masar-ji :D ), who is awe-inspiring in his own right.

Now, as a cut-haired Sikkh who sometimes gets a little lazy when it comes to trimming my beard, I look like a typical Muslim. No-one looks me in the eye or treats me normally. Every white person looks down their nose at me. I commute by train twice a week with three big, black bags (back-pack, a sports bag and a briefcase) and pretty much every pair of eyes on the train is staring at me for the full two hours of my journey. In fact, just today (and I just posted this on another board), I was walking down the street and a white dude shouts out "there aren't any Mosques here!". "Well, that's handy since I'm not Muslim", I yelled back. "You look like a Muslim". "If you mean I look like a human being", I said, "then I appreciate your observations, sir".

A few months back, I was crossing the road and a Muslim guy was crossing from the other side. As we passed, he goes "asalaam alikum my Muslim brother". I replied, "I'm not Muslim. But I am your brother".

I've even been physcially attacked (mental note: full beer cans hurt...and your clothes smell when it is open ), verbally abused, and had my family threatened to be killed (including my then-8-year old brother and 12-year old sister) by whites. You would have thought that this would encourage me to shave every day...and yet I refuse to do so. My beard is bigger than it's been for a while, and I refuse to trim it. As long as I can reveal the truth of peoples' ignorance and prejudice using this form of those who decide to speak to me, I am going to use this form to do it.

Bana isn't something I "fear". It's something towards which I am entirely indifferent. It is one's actions, and not one's choice of robes, prayers or lack of haircut that defines who a man or woman is.

So I guess you could say that my "actions/order [are] motivated by true peace,repect, and love in the form of activism"

Lionchild we have so many punjabi people going around calling themselves Sikh who are too weak to maintain a proper beard or dastar. They believe they have the right to call themselves Sikh because of the family in which they were born. This beleif is akin to that of many of the Hindu faith.

It seems that Hindustan would also prefer to define those people as Hindu, so it's a harmonious fit. Those punjabi Hindus (calling themselves sikh) are still dear brothers and sisters of mine as we share parts of culture and also possibly share history and values although more so with their parents or grandparents.

You on the other hand my dear aboriginal bro who finds Sikhi truly from the inside are the Sikh that I aspire to be. You are the promising future I strive for and the glorious past I search for.

"Na koi Hindu, na koi Musalman...na koi Sikkh." ~ Guru Nanak Dev Ji REMIX :D

We don't know who Guru Ji has accepted as his own and who He hasn't.

Ek Onkar.

All is One. One is All.

We are all One with God, whether we realise it or not.

Thanks for the sincerity in your reply bro. Respect to you for making the forum a kinder place. I am not sure I agree with your remix version. I do understand it on a certain level. But taken to it’s end, would suggest that we should not have a forum called sikhsangat in which you participate.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not suggest that we abolish religion. He suggested that we abolish false religion and embrace waheguru’s humanity. This was not to be done simply by us meaning well, but rather being activists. Guru Nanak Dev Ji started the path to the kirpan by challenging society head on. This approach to life was given a blueprint via the khalsa. Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s life and teachings are the ultimate in love and peace.

You say

“and yet I refuse to do so. My beard is bigger than it's been for a while, and I refuse to trim it. As long as I can reveal the truth of peoples' ignorance and prejudice using this form of those who decide to speak to me, I am going to use this form to do it.”But you don’t refuse to cut your hair?? and insist on a dastar?

You remix is:

"Na koi Hindu, na koi Musalman...na koi Sikkh."

Well surely then “na koi sikhsangat” and “na koi Max identifying himself as sikh” and “na koi need for communication” etc.

Should we abolish womens rights groups?, black rights groups? Cultural celebrations? Etc. etc. This is not what Guru Nanak Dev Ji meant otherwise Sikhs would be ascetics meditating in caves to truly denounce worldly definitions.

“Na Koi” is a message to lead a life to embrace waheguru’s humanity of all faiths and backgrounds. We call this Sikhi. Our bodies are not a formless god incarnate. Rather they are the creation of waheguroo and if we are alive, we do not float in godspace, we make choices in how we conduct our lives and our bodies. They can be dictated by the masses and media or by something so beautiful as the ways of the Khalsa.

Now all I need is people like you to make me walk my talk.

[MAX]

Thanks for the sincerity in your reply bro. Respect to you for making the forum a kinder place.

Many thanks for your kind words :TH:

I am not sure I agree with your remix version. I do understand it on a certain level. But taken to it’s end, would suggest that we should not have a forum called sikhsangat in which you participate.

A name is just a name. A consequence of the human incapacity to refer to abstract things with success. It's a mode of reference. Little else.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not suggest that we abolish religion. He suggested that we abolish false religion and embrace waheguru’s humanity. This was not to be done simply by us meaning well, but rather being activists. Guru Nanak Dev Ji started the path to the kirpan by challenging society head on. This approach to life was given a blueprint via the khalsa. Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s life and teachings are the ultimate in love and peace.

Mm...when you say that Guru Nanak "suggested that we abolish false religion", are you implying that Guru-ji said that one should embrace a true religion? If so, is there a passage from Gurbani that supports this (in literal terms, of course).

You say

“and yet I refuse to do so. My beard is bigger than it's been for a while, and I refuse to trim it. As long as I can reveal the truth of peoples' ignorance and prejudice using this form of those who decide to speak to me, I am going to use this form to do it.”But you don’t refuse to cut your hair?? and insist on a dastar?

But why should I? Am I less of a man if I do/don't?

You remix is:

"Na koi Hindu, na koi Musalman...na koi Sikkh."

Well surely then “na koi sikhsangat” and “na koi Max identifying himself as sikh” and “na koi need for communication” etc.

As I stated above, it is required for "communication". But beyond that particular simulacrum, it means little else.

Should we abolish womens rights groups?, black rights groups? Cultural celebrations? Etc. etc. This is not what Guru Nanak Dev Ji meant otherwise Sikhs would be ascetics meditating in caves to truly denounce worldly definitions.

I think you're taking things a little extreme. When I said "na koi Sikkh", what I meant was that a true Sikkh doesn't think of himself as a 'Sikkh', but as a 'sikkh". I hope you understand my meaning.

“Na Koi” is a message to lead a life to embrace waheguru’s humanity of all faiths and backgrounds. We call this Sikhi. Our bodies are not a formless god incarnate. Rather they are the creation of waheguroo and if we are alive, we do not float in godspace, we make choices in how we conduct our lives and our bodies. They can be dictated by the masses and media or by something so beautiful as the ways of the Khalsa.

Indeed. Conduct of one's life is the highest order.

Truth is above all.

Truthful living is higher still.

But whether or not you define that living by Bana or not is not what is important in my eyes. What is important to me is the virtue in peoples' actions.

Now all I need is people like you to make me walk my talk.

Heh...always glad to inspire

[Paneet]

Ek Onkar.

All is One. One is All.

We are all One with God, whether we realise it or not.

That's deep

[MAX]

Ek Onkar.

All is One. One is All.

We are all One with God, whether we realise it or not.

That's deep

I personally think that it is beautifully simple, but hey, whatever floats yer boat :TH:

[Sweet Punjaban]

Ek Onkar.

All is One. One is All.

We are all One with God, whether we realise it or not.

:wub: That's deep :|

I personally think that it is beautifully simple, but hey, whatever floats yer boat :TH: :wub:

Technically 'Ek Onkar' means One Existence...as in God exists within EVERYTHING.

Just thought I'd share that with you. :wub:

[Bhajanpreet]

I thought it meant "there is only one God"..?