Khalsa Colours And Chola/bana

[Bhajanpreet]

I tried searching for the words color, orange, blue, white, etc, and got some quotes from gurbani:

ਰਤਾ ਪੈਨਣੁ ਮਨੁ ਰਤਾ ਸੁਪੇਦੀ ਸਤੁ ਦਾਨੁ ॥

My mind is imbued with the Lord's Love; it is dyed a deep crimson. Truth and charity are my white clothes.

ਨੀਲੀ ਸਿਆਹੀ ਕਦਾ ਕਰਣੀ ਪਹਿਰਣੁ ਪੈਰ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥

The blackness of sin is erased by my wearing of blue clothes, and meditation on the Lord's Lotus Feet is my robe of honor.

That brought up two questions: is red (or crimson) supposed to be a "Khalsa color" as well? And if blue is good, what does the following shabad mean (I included the entire shabad to make it easier to interpret):

ਸਲੋਕ ਮ: 4 ॥

ਮਲੁ ਜੂਈ ਭਰਿਆ ਨੀਲਾ ਕਾਲਾ ਖਿਧੋਲੜਾ ਤਿਨਿ ਵੇਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਮੁਖੈ ਨੋ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

ਪਾਸਿ ਨ ਦੇਈ ਕੋਈ ਬਹਣਿ ਜਗਤ ਮਹਿ ਗੂਹ ਪੜਿ ਸਗਵੀ ਮਲੁ ਲਾਇ ਮਨਮੁਖੁ ਆਇਆ ॥

ਪਰਾਈ ਜੋ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਚੁਗਲੀ ਨੋ ਵੇਮੁਖੁ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਭੇਜਿਆ ਓਥੈ ਭੀ ਮੁਹੁ ਕਾਲਾ ਦੁਹਾ ਵੇਮੁਖਾ ਦਾ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥

ਤੜ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਸਭਤੁ ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚਿ ਭਾਈ ਵੇਮੁਖੁ ਸਣੈ ਨਫਰੈ ਪਉਲੀ ਪਉਦੀ ਫਾਵਾ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਉਠਿ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ॥

ਅਗੈ ਸੰਗਤੀ ਕੁੜਮੀ ਵੇਮੁਖੁ ਰਲਣਾ ਨ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾ ਵਹੁਟੀ ਭਤੀਜਂØੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਣਿ ਘਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

ਹਲਤੁ ਪਲਤੁ ਦੋਵੈ ਗਏ ਨਿਤ ਭੁਖਾ ਕੂਕੇ ਤਿਹਾਇਆ ॥

ਧਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਨਿਆਉ ਸਚੁ ਬਹਿ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥

ਜੋ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਕੀ ਸੋ ਸਾਚੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਪਚਾਇਆ ॥

ਏਹੁ ਅਖਰੁ ਤਿਨਿ ਆਖਿਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਗਤੁ ਸਭੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥੧॥

Salok, Fourth Mehla:

The faithless baymukh sent out his faithless servant, wearing a blue-black coat, filled with filth and vermin.

No one in the world will sit near him; the self-willed manmukh fell into manure, and returned with even more filth covering him.

The faithless baymukh was sent to slander and back-bite others, but when he went there, the faces of both he and his faithless master were blackened instead.

It was immediately heard throughout the whole world, O Siblings of Destiny, that this faithless man, along with his servant, was kicked and beaten with shoes; in humiliation, they got up and returned to their homes.

The faithless baymukh was not allowed to mingle with others; his wife and niece then brought him home to lie down.

He has lost both this world and the next; he cries out continually, in hunger and thirst.

Blessed, blessed is the Creator, the Primal Being, our Lord and Master; He Himself sits and dispenses true justice.

One who slanders the Perfect True Guru is punished and destroyed by the True Lord.

This Word is spoken by the One who created the whole universe. ||1||

What's with the reference to the blue-black coat in the first line? And here:

ਮ: 1 ॥

ਸਾਮ ਕਹੈ ਸੇਤੰਬਰੁ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸਚ ਮਹਿ ਆਛੈ ਸਾਚਿ ਰਹੇ ॥ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥

ਰਿਗੁ ਕਹੈ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇਵਾ ਮਹਿ ਸੂਰੁ ॥

ਨਾਇ ਲਇਐ ਪਰਾਛਤ ਜਾਹਿ ॥

ਨਾਨਕ ਤਉ ਮੋਖੰਤਰੁ ਪਾਹਿ ॥

ਜੁਜ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਰਿ ਛਲੀ ਚੰਦ੍ਰਾਵਲਿ ਕਾਨ੍‍ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨੁ ਜਾਦਮੁ ਭਇਆ ॥

ਪਾਰਜਾਤੁ ਗੋਪੀ ਲੈ ਆਇਆ ਬਿੰਦ੍ਰਾਬਨ ਮਹਿ ਰੰਗੁ ਕੀਆ ॥

ਕਲਿ ਮਹਿ ਬੇਦੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ਹੂਆ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਅਲਹੁ ਭਇਆ ॥

ਨੀਲ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਲੇ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰੇ ਤੁਰਕ ਪਠਾਣੀ ਅਮਲੁ ਕੀਆ ॥

ਚਾਰੇ ਵੇਦ ਹੋਏ ਸਚਿਆਰ ॥

ਪੜਹਿ ਗੁਣਹਿ ਤਿਨ੍‍ ਚਾਰ ਵੀਚਾਰ ॥

ਭਾਉ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਨੀਚੁ ਸਦਾਏ ॥ ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੋਖੰਤਰੁ ਪਾਏ ॥੨॥

First Mehla:

The Sama Veda says that the Lord Master is robed in white; in the Age of Truth, everyone desired Truth, abided in Truth, and was merged in the Truth.

The Rig Veda says that God is permeating and pervading everywhere;

among the deities, the Lord's Name is the most exalted.

Chanting the Name, sins depart;

O Nanak, then, one obtains salvation.

In the Jujar Veda, Kaan Krishna of the Yaadva tribe seduced Chandraavali by force.

He brought the Elysian Tree for his milk-maid, and revelled in Brindaaban.

In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.

Men began to wear blue robes and garments; Turks and Pat'haans assumed power.

The four Vedas each claim to be true.

Reading and studying them, four doctrines are found.

With loving devotional worship, abiding in humility, O Nanak, salvation is attained. ||2||

Again, in the fourth to last line, this is confusing; when Kaan Krishna took over, bad things happened, including men wearing blue robes? Or am I interpreting that wrong? There are also referals to "wearing blue robes they go to muslims" etc things like that. I'm confused by this, I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong here, just trying to understand why colors are so important; I thought that they were used more as metaphors and similies in Gurbani, not to be taken literally, in accordance with the shabad:

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ ਕੋਈ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥

ਕੋਈ ਸੇਵੈ ਗੁਸਈਆ ਕੋਈ ਅਲਾਹਿ ॥੧॥

ਕਾਰਣ ਕਰਣ ਕਰੀਮ ॥

ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਰਹੀਮ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਕੋਈ ਨਾਵੈ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਕੋਈ ਹਜ ਜਾਇ ॥

ਕੋਈ ਕਰੈ ਪੂਜਾ ਕੋਈ ਸਿਰੁ ਨਿਵਾਇ ॥੨॥

ਕੋਈ ਪੜੈ ਬੇਦ ਕੋਈ ਕਤੇਬ ॥

ਕੋਈ ਓਢੈ ਨੀਲ ਕੋਈ ਸੁਪੇਦ ॥੩॥

ਕੋਈ ਕਹੈ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਕੋਈ ਕਹੈ ਹਿੰਦੂ ॥

ਕੋਈ ਬਾਛੈ ਭਿਸਤੁ ਕੋਈ ਸੁਰਗਿੰਦੂ ॥੪॥

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਤਾ ॥

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕਾ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਜਾਤਾ ॥੫॥੯॥

Raamkalee, Fifth Mehla:

Some call Him, 'Raam, Raam', and some call Him, 'Khudaa-i'.

Some serve Him as 'Gusain', others as 'Allaah'. ||1||

He is the Cause of causes, the Generous Lord.

He showers His Grace and Mercy upon us. ||1||Pause||

Some bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, and some make the pilgrimage to Mecca.|

Some perform devotional worship services, and some bow their heads in prayer. ||2||

Some read the Vedas, and some the Koran.

Some wear blue robes, and some wear white. ||3||

Some call themselves Muslim, and some call themselves Hindu.

Some yearn for paradise, and others long for heaven. ||4||

Says Nanak, one who realizes the Hukam of God's Will,

knows the secrets of his Lord and Master. ||5||9||

It's referring to how some say/do certain things, but the "one who realizes the Hukam of God's Will knows the secrets of his Lord and Master." Those things included wearing blue/white.

Sorry if I offended anybody's views, but if I did, post back and try to explain

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

You offended me

Just kidding

[Bhajanpreet]

Hahahaha. Really, though, I've been wondering about this since the Nagar Keertan in Windsor when they asked us to wear orange, saying it was the color of the Khalsa. I went wearing blue and white, because that's what I normally wear.

[Lionchild]

Hahahaha. Really, though, I've been wondering about this since the Nagar Keertan in Windsor when they asked us to wear orange, saying it was the color of the Khalsa. I went wearing blue and white, because that's what I normally wear.

good job! if it's you, why change? especially since we don't want to be sending people away over colors. I knew orange is ok, but i think all colors can be worn. In different cultures, orange and white are bad...

[_K4UR_]

sowwie fo goin off topic

but whaz tht red stuff on tht nihang singhs dumalla

[_K_]

sowwie fo goin off topic

but whaz tht red stuff on tht nihang singhs dumalla

isn't it th dye stuff they use at holi...?

i hav a similar pic ;

[Revolutionary]

Bhajanpreet Penji... the Crimson colour In bani is referred as a sign of Humility.

The word ਮਜੀਠ has been used in Bani to represent this..

ਮਜੀਠ, pronounced MAJEETH (with a hard T), is the root of a plant, which is first pulled out of the ground, cut, then hung out to dry. Then it is grounded and dissolved into water. If you put white clothes into that mixture, it will be dyed dark crimson. No matter what you do to that cloth now, the colour will not fade! This represents humility. As in being very Low.

On the other hand, ਕਸੁੰਭ is the flower, which doesnt go through much.. but the dye it produces comes off very soon. This represents Hankar - Pride. As in being HIGH first.

It is nothing to do with the crimson colour ji. This is why I disagree with word for word translations, Gurbani is soo deep.. its impossible to understand fully the power of Bani with such translations. They are good for the tip of the iceberg though..

WAHEGURU! Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaar no. 4 says exactly this!!!

ਰੰਗ ਮਜੀਠ ਕਸੁੰਭ ਦਾ ਕੱਚਾ ਪੱਕਾ ਕਿਤ ਵੀਚਾਰੇ॥

ਧਰਤੀ ਉਖਣ ਕਢੀਐ ਮੂਲ ਮੰਜੀਠ ਜੜੀ ਜੜ ਤਾਰੇ॥

ਉੱਖਲ ਮੁਹਲੇ ਕੁਟੀਐ ਪੀਹਣ ਪੀਸੈ ਚਕੀ ਭਾਰੇ॥

ਸਹੈ ਅਵਟਣ ਅੱਗ ਦਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਮਿਲੈ ਪਿਆਰੇ॥

ਮੋਹਲੀਅਹੰ ਸਿਰ ਕਢਕੈ ਫੁੱਲ ਕਸੁੰਭ ਚੁਲੰਭ ਖਿਲਾਰੇ॥

ਖਟ ਤੁਰਸੀ ਦੇ ਰੰਗੀਐ ਕਪਟ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਰਹੈ ਦਿਨਚਾਰੇ॥

ਨੀਵਾਂ ਜਿਣੇ ਉਚੇਰਾ ਹਾਰੇ ॥

Why madder is the fast colour and safflower temporary.

The roots of madder spread in earth, it is first brought out and put into the pit and is pounded with wooden pestles.

Then it is crushed into a heavy mill.

It further suffers the pain of getting boiled and decorated in water and then only it adorns (with fast colour) the clothes of the beloved.

The safflower comes up from the upper portion of the thorny weed Carthamus tinctoria and yields its deep colour.

Adding tart in it, the clothes are dyed and they remain dyed only for a few days.

The lowly born utimately wins and the so-called high up gets defeated.

Nb: Info on madder (Majeeth)- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madder

Info on safflower (Kasumbh) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safflower

[Bhajanpreet]

Thanks a lot, it explained a lot.

By the way (this is like the third or fourth time this has happend; why? isn't my picture up?) I'm a dude, not a dudette

So does anybody have an explanation, though, for why we even have "khalsa colors"? And if so, then what's with blue? (read my post above) Thanks a lot to the guys that are replying

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

That sux they asked you to wear orange and you wore blue. Disobeying starts from Manmat and ends with manmat.You should listen. What if they were taking a picture of the Group as wearing orange and you werent wearing the proper attire color.

Blue used to be a Muslim warriors color but they have used their sacred color green for the last 7-800 years. If you look at and Army they are all wearing the same thing{in the U.S camo}. Even at work the Cashiers wear one color while the management wears the managements color to show who is who so you dont have to guess.U.S Civil War{and any other Army} officers wore officers attire and the General wore his certain attire.

You can get really in depth with Khalsa colors but I dont feel like typing a huge report Ill have to ask you to research it which youll be reading for a while {if you check many resources}

Blue was a Muslim saints color of attire thats why GuruJi wore this when traveling through Muslim territory towards his last months of Earthly living.

[Bhajanpreet]

Sorry, you got it wrong, but I didn't explain it clearly either (I didn't think anybody would look at it like that, I was just trying to say why I was interested in the topic); when I referred to "they" and "us", "they" are the people I was hanging around with talking about the Nagar Keertan with, and "us" were the other people. It wasn't like an official thing, we didn't have to wear orange.

Can you give me some kind of lead at least? Everywhere that I've searched has just stated that "these are the Khalsa colors" without giving reasons to why, and I've searched for a while.