Southall Ramgharia Gurdwara

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

If emporers like Akbar were made to sit in the Pangat, besude everyone else, before being alowed to meet Guru Arjan Dev ji.. then who are we to try to change it?

Pangat is not only about equality, its about respecting Guru Ka Langar. Guru Ji has done Bhog of this langar, so we should eat it with our shoes off and heads covered.

Using your logic of comparing your home with Gurdwara - You dont cover your head when you eat at home.. so why at Gurdwara? Think about it.

Personally, I find it more healthy to sit on the floor to eat. Hey, I'm sitting on the floor while writing this post on laptop! lol

I have my head covered at all times and I dont allow anyone to enter my house with shoes on, not my mom, grandma, dad, uncles, aunts, friends, jahovahs witnesses or mormons{ just kidding} but nobody can come in unless they are equal to me and I dont wear shoes in my house so nobody else can also.

That is really dumb how alot of so called "sikhs" dont respect the sanctity of the Gurdwaras.

We almost should have sevadars standing at all the door ways ready to bonk people on the head who dont respect the Gurdwara.

Or have people at the doors in the Langar hall to see if heads are covered and shoes are off

I think table and chairs are stupid and have no place at the Gurdwara because eventually people will want to sit on chairs in the Main Hall as long as the Maanji Sahib is taller than their level. What the Hell why not get served langar on chairs in the main hall while the program is still going or why dont they just order Dominos pizza for langar.

The more we morph into monsters the uglier the Gurwara will look. I feel that some Gurdwaras are under arrested decay and almost should be torn down and rebuilt to preserve what GuruJi wants from the Sikhs.

As S1ngh said: if you dont follow the rehat you are not a Sikh {period} and Ill say [exclamation point}

This is a cool topic because I have been wanting to say this stuff for a while, I just didnt want all these people crying about what I have to say about this subject.

People who dont respect the Gurdwara make me sick { ILL } but people with a real disabilty should be allowed a chair/table if needed which I see as helping them attend the Gurdwara rather than them being lazy and picky.

[Jaspaul Singh]

Whats wrong with Table and Chairs? When you go home do you sit on the floor and eat? Even if your sitting on the chairs near a table, everyone is still on the same level when eating. In Singh Sabba Gurdwara you have tables and chairs too. Only difference is that you dont get to sit on the tables but you have to stand near the tables, I choose not to stand near a table and eat since it gives me gas. I would prefer to sit either on the floor or on the chair near a table.

I personly see no problem with having tables and chairs in the Gurdwara.

Rupz bhenji .. theres a lot of problems wit tables and chairs in gurdwaras.. its just NOT the place for them ..

so u compare a gurdwara to ur home ?? Some that even have guru sahib at home keep guru sahib on the top level, and sometimes even at on the floor, but thats just taken it to the next level but its done and its sharda towards guru sahib.. to ALWAYS keep ourselves lower !

its not about keeping on the same level while eating.. its about controlling ..one person said how about old peeps/disabilities .. yes theres a certain exception but you have to have control .. the next thing you see (like in uk/bc) where EVERYONE is sitting on chairs and eating on tables.. u wana be confortable go home.. if u cant sit .. dont come straight out!

im not attacking you bhenji but to everyone in general that say tables/chairs are good.. one step leads to another .. to another .. and hence, everything that we once called a 'guru dwara' has fell apart..

if u cant sit.. practise.. goto raensabayees.. kirtans.. do some yoga.. play some sports.. there should be no excuses.. its old peeps from india that are too lazy to do anything in regards to promoting sikhi want to have a easy relaxing one way trip to sach khand.. singho/bhainoo .. u gotta EARN it .. its not all easy ....

my grandma is over 80 .. she walks wit a crane.. shes overweight.. she has many problems wit her knees..hence she still goes wit me to raensabayees and sits majority of the time against the wall ..at most she would go in the back and lie down on the floor wit her feet the other way ..

a gurudwara is not giving you a show to watch so u can sit on chairs to enjoy it ..

challo i think i said too much, im very ex-chairs/tables .. we need to take actions against who appose this ..

bhull chuk maphh ..

[Lionchild]

I think table and chairs are stupid and have no place at the Gurdwara because eventually people will want to sit on chairs in the Main Hall as long as the Maanji Sahib is taller than their level. What the Hell why not get served langar on chairs in the main hall while the program is still going or why dont they just order Dominos pizza for langar.

that's been done before, at our gurdwara... in fact when we had a wedding party at our temple, there was food of all sorts in the langar hall. People where coming in from outside with uncovered hair and shoes on.

when we have regualr langar, we have fruits and vegetables, it really doesnt matter what type of food you have served at langar, heck some of the outside food is better than the fat-laced over calories food the people prepare at the temple

[TavPrasad Singh]

Today i went to Ramgharia Gurdwara Sahib in southall. To say i was shocked is an understatement!!!!!! As you walk in firstly you see everyone sittin on tables and chairs and eating langar with their shoes on!!! all this despite several Akal Takht hukamanamas on this subject. Then i spot a gyani walking out of the cooking section with shoes on carryying a bata of Karah Parsad!!! To be honest going to this gurdwara was such a eye opener, the darbar sahib where katha was going on was empty, where as everyone was busy gossiping in the langar hall downstairs!!is this the state of our gurdware today? while the youth goes round tackling the issue of Guru Sahib going to hotels etc, while this is commendable shouldnt we look closer to home and in our own gurdware and make sure hukamname are implemented there. If we cant get them implemented in a gurwara what hope do we have of them being implemented and understood by people of other faiths?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

People of other faiths are more receptive & understanding about Hukamnamas & Rehit Maryada.

First of all we have to feel responsiblity for all Gurdwaras. When a Singh/Singhni enters any Gurdwara they must feel as if the GuruGhar is personally theirs. Many Sikhs have this comfort factor that at least my local Gurdwara or Jatha/Samprada Gurdwara sticks to Maryada, in other words "I'm alright Jack".

Gurdwaras are social clubs and this environment is enhanced in a langar hall that looks more like a canteen!

But its up to each individual to voice their concerns, either as Sangat or correspondance, raising awareness, posting Hukamnamas on Gurdwara notice boards, speaking to the committee. The more people become aware of Beadbi towards Guru Granth Khalsa then the SANGAT has to fix them, not just youth or R4G. Each Sikh has to stand in one way or another against this. As Sikhs we cant expect someone else to fix our problems.

At minimum, lets put up the hukamnama onto the notice boards of thoses Gurdwaras who continue with the tables and chairs.

Lets write a leaflet to distribute to the Sangat.

[Guest Singh_jee]

erm whoever said ramgharia was a caste is kind of silly!

ram ghar, guru ram das jis fort and the ramgharia so calld 'caste' is not a caste it is an army!

back in india its near hari mander sahib ile try get pix 4 u lot!

tharkaan is the caste and they are associated with ramgharia but there can b jatt ramgharias aswell it, but the caste system has been abolished by all our gurus so i shouldn;t really be talkin about them should i!

basicallys the ramgharias are so called descendants of the singhs who upheld the 'ram ghar', the fort, and they were then called ramgharias...

sorry if all this is rong Bhul chuk maaf!

sat sri akaaaal purakh jee!

[randip singh]

Today i went to Ramgharia Gurdwara Sahib in southall. To say i was shocked is an understatement!!!!!! As you walk in firstly you see everyone sittin on tables and chairs and eating langar with their shoes on!!! all this despite several Akal Takht hukamanamas on this subject. Then i spot a gyani walking out of the cooking section with shoes on carryying a bata of Karah Parsad!!! To be honest going to this gurdwara was such a eye opener, the darbar sahib where katha was going on was empty, where as everyone was busy gossiping in the langar hall downstairs!!is this the state of our gurdware today? while the youth goes round tackling the issue of Guru Sahib going to hotels etc, while this is commendable shouldnt we look closer to home and in our own gurdware and make sure hukamname are implemented there. If we cant get them implemented in a gurwara what hope do we have of them being implemented and understood by people of other faiths?

Whats wrong with Table and Chairs? When you go home do you sit on the floor and eat? Even if your sitting on the chairs near a table, everyone is still on the same level when eating. In Singh Sabba Gurdwara you have tables and chairs too. Only difference is that you dont get to sit on the tables but you have to stand near the tables, I choose not to stand near a table and eat since it gives me gas. I would prefer to sit either on the floor or on the chair near a table.

I personly see no problem with having tables and chairs in the Gurdwara.

Spot on Rupz!!!

The table and chairs argument is idiotic. The point of langar is not sitting on the floor but everyone eating together.....regardless of gender, caste, race, or faith.

Historically people never used tables and chairs in India........thats why they wern't used in the old days. This is a Cultural issue, nothing to do with Sikhism. Eating on the floor is unhygenic.

Going to cooking areas without shoes is unhygenic (you can have skin diseases and all sorts on them). Proper overalls should be worn when going into cooking areas.

What I suggest is use of common sense and not turning langar into a form of ritualism (as is being suggested here).

[Sweet Punjaban]

Tohee Mohee Mohee Tohee Antar Kaisaa

Kanak Katik Jal Trang Jaisaa

(As written in the SGGS)

This basically is Ravidass asking God that what is the difference between you and me, between me and you? The difference is a mere illusion such as the difference between gold and a gold bracelet on one hand, or the water in the ocean and the waves on its surface in the other. So when the gold is melted that distiction between them is lost and when waves break they gel back into that same ocean....meaning there really is no difference we all become part of God eventually as we are already part of God.

What Im trying to say is what is all this about sitting lower or higher in a Gurdwara??? Im not trying to be disrespectful so please forgive me, Im asking a simple question. Does a bird in a nest on a high tree hold more value than a rabbit in a burrow?....Technically we're all equal to the lord anyway so what difference does having chairs and tables in the langar hall make? I didn't quite understand that. @

And can some one kindly point out where it is written in the SGGS that langar must be consumed sitting on the floor? I'm new to this you see and so have barely any knowledge at all about what the gurujis have wrote in the SGGS, don't take this question the wrong way! I was just thinking someone must know if it is written that that is how it should be, because if it is written so, then I also would agree that chairs n tables should not be permitted in gurdwaras (apart from for the elderly and disabled). But at the same time I don't see why sitting on chairs and tables is disrespectful in any way...what is so disrespectful about that?

Thanks for reading my post, hope one of you will help answer my questions.

[KharkooSingh]

The table and chairs argument is idiotic. The point of langar is not sitting on the floor but everyone eating together.....regardless of gender, caste, race, or faith.

Historically people never used tables and chairs in India........thats why they wern't used in the old days. This is a Cultural issue, nothing to do with Sikhism. Eating on the floor is unhygenic.

Going to cooking areas without shoes is unhygenic (you can have skin diseases and all sorts on them). Proper overalls should be worn when going into cooking areas.

What I suggest is use of common sense and not turning langar into a form of ritualism (as is being suggested here).

What if nice chairs were placed in the diwan hall? How would people react to that? Can you envisage us sitting on seats within the diwan like a church congregation?

If practices seem outdated because of modernity does it mean they are wrong? Stting on the floor is part of our Gurdwara maryada whether in the diwan or langer hall. I mean some people say the kirpan is a dated "weapon" , does that mean if Guru Gobind Singh Ji was alive today his hukam would be that we carry modern day revolvers!

Times may changes but maryada is timeless.

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

Today i went to Ramgharia Gurdwara Sahib in southall. To say i was shocked is an understatement!!!!!! As you walk in firstly you see everyone sittin on tables and chairs and eating langar with their shoes on!!! all this despite several Akal Takht hukamanamas on this subject. Then i spot a gyani walking out of the cooking section with shoes on carryying a bata of Karah Parsad!!! To be honest going to this gurdwara was such a eye opener, the darbar sahib where katha was going on was empty, where as everyone was busy gossiping in the langar hall downstairs!!is this the state of our gurdware today? while the youth goes round tackling the issue of Guru Sahib going to hotels etc, while this is commendable shouldnt we look closer to home and in our own gurdware and make sure hukamname are implemented there. If we cant get them implemented in a gurwara what hope do we have of them being implemented and understood by people of other faiths?

Whats wrong with Table and Chairs? When you go home do you sit on the floor and eat? Even if your sitting on the chairs near a table, everyone is still on the same level when eating. In Singh Sabba Gurdwara you have tables and chairs too. Only difference is that you dont get to sit on the tables but you have to stand near the tables, I choose not to stand near a table and eat since it gives me gas. I would prefer to sit either on the floor or on the chair near a table.

I personly see no problem with having tables and chairs in the Gurdwara.

Spot on Rupz!!!

The table and chairs argument is idiotic. The point of langar is not sitting on the floor but everyone eating together.....regardless of gender, caste, race, or faith.

Historically people never used tables and chairs in India........thats why they wern't used in the old days. This is a Cultural issue, nothing to do with Sikhism. Eating on the floor is unhygenic.

Going to cooking areas without shoes is unhygenic (you can have skin diseases and all sorts on them). Proper overalls should be worn when going into cooking areas.

What I suggest is use of common sense and not turning langar into a form of ritualism (as is being suggested here).

It is idiotic that people bend rules and modernize everthing.

Why dont they just have an online Guru Granth so the Granthis only have to turn the computer on/off to do prakash, Sukh Asan ceremonies?

Why dont they just have a Diwan cable show on tv?

Why dont they have hues/bench seats like in christian churches and have SGGS on a stage higher than the Sangat?

We does the language stay the same when you speak a different language in the society? ae German, french etc.

Why dont they just let you have shoes on and not make you cover your head?

Also with the outdated weapon. Why dont we carry around a pistol in a hulster?

Why dont people clean the langar halls floor as an ishnaan seva?

To save effort by the sangat, Why dont they just order pizza for langar?

Why dont they just say wear hats and sandals in the Darbar?

We dont they have an online goulek for wire transfer donations to the Guru?

So many questions we could ask to completely flip Sikhi over. Which is stupid that one thing leads to the next and gullable people argue for the morphing of the rehat.

[AK47 JATHA LION]

wAheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji kee fateh

The issue being raised

This table and chair issue is NOT an idiotic one, as the last reply stated. It is a good argument. If we as sikhs do not bring issues up how can we tackle them? The ramgharia gurdwara ONLY has chairs and tables in the langhar hall. It dont even provide a place for people to sit and eat. This is silly.....

i think disabled people and people unable to sit and eat should a table or 2. Buttt the ramgharia gurdwara dont have an area where people can sit and eat at all!! Clearly they defied the hukhamnamas issued by the akaal takht many times.

Akaal takht/eternal throne and the false path

My fellow sikhs, may i remind u that the AKal Takht is the Eternal Throne. The supreme seat of sikh religious authority. Akaal meaing timeless lets not forget. takht meaning throne in persian. SIkhs are to except the akaal takht as our guide and authority. The ramgharia gurdwara in southall defied the akaal takht hukamnaamas....this is a serious thing! a gurdwara is not meant to put people on the rong path! by defying the akaal takht its leading people astray.

Mythological figures and shoes

Why do they have a picure of some so called "hindu god" in there? what is this! ive personally seen it. ramgharia gurdwara in southall is leading people astray.

In the langhar hall we must remove our shoes. We have to maintain some level of respect. And lets not compare gurdwara to our homes please. in our homes we dont have a langhar for thousands of people.

Lionchild and his continuous attack on youths

ANd as for the comment about "youths sitting on tables not lookin good" - its not the youths only, its the whole sangat. Its easy to condemn some kids that sit on tables and chairs.....but people need to shuttup and set an example. who do the youth follow? they follow grownups. the gyanis at ramgharia gurdwara have alot of respect of people...young and old. If they could just lead them on the correct path.....people would follow them....And So Wud I.

Other Corrupt SO called Gurdwaras in Southall

I want to bring to light some other corruption strongholds in southall.

Ravidas Gurdwara in Old southall - In there they have a picture of a man they call "guru". and they also matha tek to a man they call "maharaj" ji in there. what is this nonsense?

Clifton road gurdwara - Also situated in old southall. In there they matha tek to a chair/throne which a so called baba sits on when he comes down from india. what is this nonsense? Jaswant singh is a baba that they openly matha tekh to... he used to do tours of roads in southall back in the day aswell in which people used 2 flock to him an matha teck to him with money.

Nanaksar gurdwara - Also situated in southall. In here they have things like pasta and chips in their langhar. ANd on certain days when "a baba comes down frmo kenya" they dont allow people to eat langhar. they stop people frmo eating langhar and tell them off if they try. They claim the langhar is for the baba only...the baba has shakthi they say lol. I dont want to go into rude explicit specifics about why they say he has shakthi and in what ways he uses his so called shakthi with women.

what is this nonsense? langhar is FOR ALL WHO COME TO THE GURDWARA. GURDWARA NEVER TURNS ANY1 AWAY. what is this nonsense.

Final thought

So sikhon there is alot of corruption goin on around some gurdwaras in southall. The places i have mentioned Please pay close attention to them and i will pay close attention to them also.

Seems to me most gurdwaras go asstray when they get involved with "baba". So keep your sights on these so called babeh aswell. When u hear theres some baba in town, main benthi karda keh tusi ounu pajhke na pyar karo. I ask u not to run to him and bow down to them with blind devotion.

bakee samme vich shaanthi rakho. waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ke fateh.

Sat SRi Akaal