Southall Ramgharia Gurdwara

[KharkooSingh]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLL

you guys are such a bunch of JOKES!!! it's unbelievable

I've been going to this Gurudwara since i was a kid, and all this Baedbi such as drunks etc is a load of S***. You guys just enjoy nindiya tooooo much, carry on, you'll go far.

Nothing is stopping from you sitting on the floor to eat, And somebody mentioned Soho road in Birmingham also has table and chairs as does loads of other Gurudwaras around the country.

And all this about picture of Vishkarma around the Gurudwara, Go into the Gurudwara, its one of the Few that have portraits telling stories of our Gurus.

All i wanna say is you Guys are screwed up, you've been there once and you're making Judgements, the Gurudwara has Veer manpreet Singh diwan every sunday which the whole Sangat loves http://www.ektaone.com/audio/ There's some top kirtanis that perform there.

Judge all you like, i been going there since i was a kid, If you wanna do nindiya GO AHEADDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for my words, but its just amazing how you talk about this Gurudwara like its a place of gossip and drunks, but you dont realise ITS NOT and the GOSSIP IS GOING ON RIGHT HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck

Maf karna

The attack is not only on the Southall Ramgharia Gurdwara but the gradual eradication of Gurdwara maryada. It so happens that the Ramgharia Gurdwaras are in the forefront of this.

Last year I was in the Ramgharia Gurdwara Coventry on the day of Baba Deep Singh’s Saheedi Purb which fell on the same day as Vishwakarma (the Ramgharia deity) birthday. The announcements on the Gurdwara stage made no mention of Baba Deep Singh’s Saheedi but instead focused on "baba" Vishkarma and his janam diwas. When my uncle passed away, at his funeral it was mentioned by the Ramgharia stage secretary how much of sewa my uncle did for the Ramgharia Kaum (not the Sikh Kaum or Khalsa Panth). Gurdwaras run under the banner of Ramgharia promote casteism at its worst and most blatant.

Another trend which has its roots in the "intelligent" Ramgharia community is the community hall which allows the practice of manmat activities such as serving alcohol, dancing etc. The Ramgharias are at the forefront of organising DINNER N DANCES usually on Gurpurbs, Vasakhi and Bandi-Chod Diwas. I remember when it was Maharaj's 400 parkash the Southall and Coventry Ramgharias did a dinner n dance to commemorate the event. Well that's modernity for you!

I will bash the Ramgharia kaum and anyone who links themselves to that name because in my eyes they have largely contributed to the beadbi that goes on today in the UK. They do not abide by the Akal Takht Hukumnamas regarding langar maryada and community centres and blatantly promote caste values by falsely linking a Misl name to a caste. In short the insult the name of great GurSikhs like Jassa Singh Ramgharia.

This is not Gossip this is an opinion! I am speaking from my personal experiences being born into the african-tarkaan family but having Maharaj's bakshish and being taken away from that rubbish to become part of the Khalsa.

Truth is Ramgharia Committees are responsible for taking us backwards rather than progressively forward. We are moving further and further away from Guru Ji’s teachings of Gurmat and getting more involved in Manmat .

[Singh_392]

It's you sort of people who are taking everyone backwards, not the Gurudwaras.

When the Sikhs came to this country from india and africa in the 70s and early 30/40s, no 'ramgarhia' was allowed to become a president for eg of the committee of many singh sabha Gurudwaras, this is why you see Ramgarhia Gurudwaras everywhere, the division has been caused by the Sikhs in General, don't try to pin point.

I myself do not associate myself with a ramgarhia, because i'm a Sikh and thats that.

I've heard of Gurudwara 1 and Gurudwara x who does this and that, but im not gonna come on a public forum and try to make a point. At the end of the day, Sikhi is there, you want to improve it, get up and do something dont just talk, talk talk talk. Thanks to the Gurudwara ive been bought up as a strong Sikh, it is the essence of the Gurudwara which helped me deal with soooooooo much in my life, which is why I defend it so much. It is my upbringing from this Gurudwara which makes me come on these forums to learn more, not to read nonsense like this.

The caste concept was there 40 years ago, our youth is fortunately moving away from it, you too should move with it. Theres sooo many more issues Sikhs are faced with all you guys are doing is picking the smallest and moving back in time with it.

Again Good luck to all you Guys and forgive me for my bitter language.

[Paneer Monster]

if "The pointb of Langar is people sitting together and eating. Different, castes, colours, religions, genders etc. Now if This means sitting on the floor or sitting on at a table, it really makes no difference"... if this is true, then why dont we just have help your self buffets in the Gurdwara Sahib. i mean the principles are still there right?... ppl siting together and eating, ppl of diff casts religions colur creet sexuality etc all together eating the same meal...

comon people, lets not make a mockery of Guru ka Langar. Tables and Chairs in not technology. tables and chairs would have been available in the time of our Guru Ji's and they choose not to sue them. Siting on the floor is an act of humility.

[SSM]

Better still why not have the McDonalds versian where one goes in and orders a certain meal?

I have to admit I can understand Randip Singh's views and maybe we don't know what Guru Jis would have let us do but when one sits completely humble they sit on the lowest level possible and that's the floor.

[TavPrasad Singh]

It's you sort of people who are taking everyone backwards, not the Gurudwaras.

When the Sikhs came to this country from india and africa in the 70s and early 30/40s, no 'ramgarhia' was allowed to become a president for eg of the committee of many singh sabha Gurudwaras, this is why you see Ramgarhia Gurudwaras everywhere, the division has been caused by the Sikhs in General, don't try to pin point.

I myself do not associate myself with a ramgarhia, because i'm a Sikh and thats that.

I've heard of Gurudwara 1 and Gurudwara x who does this and that, but im not gonna come on a public forum and try to make a point. At the end of the day, Sikhi is there, you want to improve it, get up and do something dont just talk, talk talk talk. Thanks to the Gurudwara ive been bought up as a strong Sikh, it is the essence of the Gurudwara which helped me deal with soooooooo much in my life, which is why I defend it so much. It is my upbringing from this Gurudwara which makes me come on these forums to learn more, not to read nonsense like this.

The caste concept was there 40 years ago, our youth is fortunately moving away from it, you too should move with it. Theres sooo many more issues Sikhs are faced with all you guys are doing is picking the smallest and moving back in time with it.

Again Good luck to all you Guys and forgive me for my bitter language.

There's no justification to call Gurdwaras after castes. Castes are non-existant in Gurbani and Rehit. This post show the attitude that Sikhs have towards their own religion. We all think we know better than Guruji. Any idea or discussion about reverting back to GurMaryada is regarded as backwards. Well sorry to say but Gurdwaras have to take this "backward" step in order for them to be as per our Gurus prescribed.

This is not nonsense, this is highlighting the state of our community. Strong Sikhs address issues facing the Panth. One major issue we face is blatant ignorance and manipulation of Rehit Maryada. Rehit Maryada is based upon Sikh Principles enshirined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

If the "ramgarhia" community attempted to address the issue of not getting on Gurdwara Commitees by opening their own Gurdwaras, then whats happened to them now?? Why dont they have the guts to implement Maryada, change the Gurdwara names?? They wont do this because now it is a Panthic issue rather than a personal one. When people were not allowed to become Committee members they saw this as a personal insult and that drove them to open Gurdwaras. Now the insult is towards Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji & Khalsa Panth, thats not personal so its okay to carry on the beadbi!!

Their is no bigger issue to discuss than the manipulation of GurMaryada!!

[KharkooSingh]

It's you sort of people who are taking everyone backwards, not the Gurudwaras.

When the Sikhs came to this country from india and africa in the 70s and early 30/40s, no 'ramgarhia' was allowed to become a president for eg of the committee of many singh sabha Gurudwaras, this is why you see Ramgarhia Gurudwaras everywhere, the division has been caused by the Sikhs in General, don't try to pin point.

I myself do not associate myself with a ramgarhia, because i'm a Sikh and thats that.

I've heard of Gurudwara 1 and Gurudwara x who does this and that, but im not gonna come on a public forum and try to make a point. At the end of the day, Sikhi is there, you want to improve it, get up and do something dont just talk, talk talk talk. Thanks to the Gurudwara ive been bought up as a strong Sikh, it is the essence of the Gurudwara which helped me deal with soooooooo much in my life, which is why I defend it so much. It is my upbringing from this Gurudwara which makes me come on these forums to learn more, not to read nonsense like this.

The caste concept was there 40 years ago, our youth is fortunately moving away from it, you too should move with it. Theres sooo many more issues Sikhs are faced with all you guys are doing is picking the smallest and moving back in time with it.

Again Good luck to all you Guys and forgive me for my bitter language.

The "Ramgharias" live in a nostalgic period of time when they were oppressed by the "Jatts" and therefore had to set up their own Gurdwaras in order to flourish. OK, that was 50 years ago, why then does the Ramgharia title still need to exist?

Why can’t the "Ramgharias" make a statement and drop the Ramgharia title from the Gurdwaras? Why does it still need to exist today?

It show’s the no progress has been made over the last 50 years or so. People are still pigeon holed into their castes and if anything the caste-based Gurdwaras accelerated and enhanced the manmat practice.

There is nothing Sikh about promoting casteism especially when selecting sewadars to run a Gurdwara. To be a member of the Ramgharia Gurdwara you must be of “Ramgharia” parentage from your father’s side. What kind of manmat is that? Even the allegedly "Jatt" run Singh Sabhas do not make that distinction.

The point I am trying to make is that even the use of a title that specifically links to a caste is beadbi.

[Singh_392]

"There's no justification to call Gurdwaras after castes. Castes are non-existant in Gurbani and Rehit. This post show the attitude that Sikhs have towards their own religion. We all think we know better than Guruji. Any idea or discussion about reverting back to GurMaryada is regarded as backwards. Well sorry to say but Gurdwaras have to take this "backward" step in order for them to be as per our Gurus prescribed.

This is not nonsense, this is highlighting the state of our community. Strong Sikhs address issues facing the Panth. One major issue we face is blatant ignorance and manipulation of Rehit Maryada. Rehit Maryada is based upon Sikh Principles enshirined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

If the "ramgarhia" community attempted to address the issue of not getting on Gurdwara Commitees by opening their own Gurdwaras, then whats happened to them now?? Why dont they have the guts to implement Maryada, change the Gurdwara names?? They wont do this because now it is a Panthic issue rather than a personal one. When people were not allowed to become Committee members they saw this as a personal insult and that drove them to open Gurdwaras. Now the insult is towards Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji & Khalsa Panth, thats not personal so its okay to carry on the beadbi!!

Their is no bigger issue to discuss than the manipulation of GurMaryada!!

"

Highlighting the state of our community!!! I CAN GO ALL DAY TALKING ABOUT THE STATE OF OUR COMMUNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I MEAN LITERALLY ALL DAY, DO YOU THINK GURU GOBIND SINGH JI SAT AND WON WARS?????????

You know and i know this is not the only thread like this, i was just reading another 20 threads started in the last week about the state of the community. how about getting up and doing something or discussing on a level, and understanding not just criticising, that's why the community is not moving forward.

The main point i'm trying to make is the divison was started by Sikhs and its continuing because as soon as someone attacks, the other party is going to react. After this thread dies down, you're going to start another one about another Gurudwara in Timbuktoo where people wear karas on their left hand instead of the right.

try to understand, and talk about solutions. Criticism can go on all day, you don't know how to use the other side of your brain and understand. Tell me this is the issue of Table of Chairs as bad as the corruption in India? or the fact that Langar was meant for the whole society and in 95% of Gurudwaras in the UK people treat it like a restaurant?

You're going backwards because you're picking the smallest problems and making a hoo hooa about it.

I'm not going to post again because i'll go on all day and its not going to solve anything. Just understand the practical point im making.

maf karna

[KharkooSingh]

Highlighting the state of our community!!! I CAN GO ALL DAY TALKING ABOUT THE STATE OF OUR COMMUNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I MEAN LITERALLY ALL DAY, DO YOU THINK GURU GOBIND SINGH JI SAT AND WON WARS?????????

You know and i know this is not the only thread like this, i was just reading another 20 threads started in the last week about the state of the community. how about getting up and doing something or discussing on a level, and understanding not just criticising, that's why the community is not moving forward.

The main point i'm trying to make is the divison was started by Sikhs and its continuing because as soon as someone attacks, the other party is going to react. After this thread dies down, you're going to start another one about another Gurudwara in Timbuktoo where people wear karas on their left hand instead of the right.

try to understand, and talk about solutions. Criticism can go on all day, you don't know how to use the other side of your brain and understand. Tell me this is the issue of Table of Chairs as bad as the corruption in India? or the fact that Langar was meant for the whole society and in 95% of Gurudwaras in the UK people treat it like a restaurant?

You're going backwards because you're picking the smallest problems and making a hoo hooa about it.

I'm not going to post again because i'll go on all day and its not going to solve anything. Just understand the practical point im making.

maf karna

Singh_392 ,

It's a shame you're not going to post again. You do have some valid points.

To some people the problem is small to some people it is big. It's like a rummala on the floor in a Gurdwara, someone might be upset by seeing the sight and pick the rummalla up whereas some people may not bother noticing it and walk past. We all see with different eyes. Some see something as beadbi and some people don't!

[TavPrasad Singh]

Highlighting the state of our community!!! I CAN GO ALL DAY TALKING ABOUT THE STATE OF OUR COMMUNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I MEAN LITERALLY ALL DAY, DO YOU THINK GURU GOBIND SINGH JI SAT AND WON WARS?????????

You know and i know this is not the only thread like this, i was just reading another 20 threads started in the last week about the state of the community. how about getting up and doing something or discussing on a level, and understanding not just criticising, that's why the community is not moving forward.

The main point i'm trying to make is the divison was started by Sikhs and its continuing because as soon as someone attacks, the other party is going to react. After this thread dies down, you're going to start another one about another Gurudwara in Timbuktoo where people wear karas on their left hand instead of the right.

try to understand, and talk about solutions. Criticism can go on all day, you don't know how to use the other side of your brain and understand. Tell me this is the issue of Table of Chairs as bad as the corruption in India? or the fact that Langar was meant for the whole society and in 95% of Gurudwaras in the UK people treat it like a restaurant?

You're going backwards because you're picking the smallest problems and making a hoo hooa about it.

I'm not going to post again because i'll go on all day and its not going to solve anything. Just understand the practical point im making.

maf karna

Singh_392 ,

It's a shame you're not going to post again. You do have some valid points.

To some people the problem is small to some people it is big. It's like a rummala on the floor in a Gurdwara, someone might be upset by seeing the sight and pick the rummalla up whereas some people may not bother noticing it and walk past. We all see with different eyes. Some see something as beadbi and some people don't!

This issue is not about what hand should you put a kara on. Its about a place that claims to be a Gurdwara but doesnt keep to the Maryada set by our Gurus. Instead people see ingornance of maryada as a progressive thing. Ramgarhia or Singh Sabha, doesnt matter if your not doing seva as Maharaj said then its Manmat.

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

I have Karas on both wrists so I cant even think of disrespect to Guru Gurdwaras etc might as well allow it if I see it.

This past Sunday the GranthJi was reciting the Hukam after Ardas and there were flies all over and around GuruJi and he waved the Char only once and it wasnt to rid the flies but as a ritualistic thing just so it was waved at least once.

The second he got down from the Mannji Sahib I washed my hands and went to wave the Char Sahib, and all the flies were shewed away from landing on top of GuruJis rumalla. Some people looked at me like if I was retarded for using the char for what it really is and not what it represents. I felt like teaching a lesson about what the Char is and what it is for. They only know that it is waved over Guru and not why. Remember these are grown adults and children who dont know why about many many things.

I couldnt bear to see even one fly on the Gurus rumaala might as well as 10-15. After I swewed them away there was about 20-30 on the golak flying on the money and to me it represented the money wasnt donated with devotion but ritualism, meaning they didnt donate it with their heart and just their hands and mind.

I dont want to sound like Im better than people or anything . I just wanted to voice this problem so others can notice more things to fix in their Gurdwaras.

Remember what things are for and what the purpose of them are. The more we just let them be the further away from what we are trying to accomplish what we are in the direction of.

I bow to the Shabad Guru