Women

[kaur_khalistani_lioness]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

im not trying to be rude or offensive here...the reply might sound like it...but don’t take it that way.

(Takes a deep breath..and talks calmly...)

i understand where u are comin frm japmans but

i dont think the issue is whether women want to stay home or work...

its more thn that.

u think people dont want baby girls because they dont want them to grow up and say "oh we wanna work... we wanna make money and get educated?"

its about respect some girls dont get and put downs sometimes some girls face just because they are girls. Again I am not talking about evry girl. My parents have never stopped me from doing some just because I was a girl. and like someone above have said...sometimes its the guys in my family who get the :wub: thn the girls. so ya one can say tht my family doesn't treate guys right..lol

even in west...i have many girl (non-desi) classmates who tell me they are in teachin program because thats what their parents thought was best for them. i mean its 2006 and thz what they said.

there r many more things..

bhul chuk muaf karni

Akal sahai

[wjkk wjkf]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

im not trying to be rude or offensive here...the reply might sound like it...but don’t take it that way.

(Takes a deep breath..and talks calmly...)

i understand where u are comin frm but

i dont think the issue is whether women want to stay home or work...

its more thn that.

u think people dont want baby girls because they dont want them to grow up and say "oh we wanna work... we wanna make money and get educated?"

its about respect some girls dont get and put downs sometimes some girls face just because they are girls. Again I am not talking about evry girl. My parents have never stopped me from doing some just because I was a girl. and like someone above have said...sometimes its the guys in my family who get the :D thn the girls. so ya one can say tht my family doesn't treate guys right..lol

even in west...i have many girl (non-desi) classmates who tell me they are in teachin program because thats what their parents thought was best for them. i mean its 2006 and thz what they said.

there r many more things..

bhul chuk muaf karni

Akal sahai

Yeh I also with agree this, I have found that there are a few set-backs for being a girl- outside my immediate family-say if an aunty has disagreed with something my mum has said or visa-versa- that aunty wont chat to me or give me evils :wub: -which i believe is because i'm my mothers daughter- that same aunty might go up to my bro's and give them great big hugs and kisses etc.

Also when i was born my dad was told not give out sweets because "its only a girl- what's the big deal"-quote. But he did so anyways :wub: ..But i s'pose things ARE changing in the west a bit more than they are back home. I mean i constantly hear about the number of abortions there are and i read that some female embryo's (unborn babies) were found in a well outside a hopsital in Punjab..

However the number of abortions or female baby drownings HAS decreased substancially and I believe as more and more people are educated and culture changes more, things WILL start changing for the better.

Maybe even in Sikhi as well. It would be great to be able to go to Harimandir Sahib and be seen as as equal and have the same rights there as a man would have.

[amankaur]

Fateh

In this world women are treated equally as men but in sikhi yes and no...

Its a hard question to answer but as a women i would like to see us sikhi women getting out there and stand shoulder to shoulder with a man n say what you can do i can do as good as you and maybe better?!

As for the sewa mentioned below by some of you yes its unfortunet that women don't get to do it, so what is to be done about it?

One of you said girls these days are typical yes i agree well only the one's who are like that, maybe its because they arent educated by their parents about sikhi and so they haven't a clue? or maybe they just don't want to know?

We need more singhnia then maybe things will change, i myself haven't taken amrit yet but i am practising and am on the right path so Guru Ji di kirpa that day will come soon for me. What us women/girls need to do is maybe have some sikhi girls clubs i dunno, where only girls allowed to come and get educated this way they be away from silly boys make ups girly chats etc etc and maybe they will learn something and hopefully change their lives?

We see in uni's, colleges groups of girls who all totally look the same if you get what i mean well in UK that is dunno about anywhere else, if the singhnia or even women/girls who haven't yet taken amrit but are practising get together and instead of ignoring these people try and get united maybe things can change i dunno just a thought.

Bul chuk maaf if i said anything wrong.

Fateh

[japmans]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

im not trying to be rude or offensive here...the reply might sound like it...but don’t take it that way.

(Takes a deep breath..and talks calmly...)

i understand where u are comin frm japmans but

i dont think the issue is whether women want to stay home or work...

its more thn that.

u think people dont want baby girls because they dont want them to grow up and say "oh we wanna work... we wanna make money and get educated?"

its about respect some girls dont get and put downs sometimes some girls face just because they are girls. Again I am not talking about evry girl. My parents have never stopped me from doing some just because I was a girl. and like someone above have said...sometimes its the guys in my family who get the :D thn the girls. so ya one can say tht my family doesn't treate guys right..lol

even in west...i have many girl (non-desi) classmates who tell me they are in teachin program because thats what their parents thought was best for them. i mean its 2006 and thz what they said.

there r many more things..

bhul chuk muaf karni

Akal sahai

Vaheguruu :wub:

Not even an IOTA of offense taken bhaina.

But i think we're still saying the same thing... my definition of equality is choice. Like i said, the issue of frowning upon baby girls is untouchable..that is easily the biggest issue of inequality.... but if we're gonna talk about WOMEN.... then i think it's a slightly different issue. WOMAN, i am assuming, means grown up girl... an infant simply doesn't come under that definition... and that's why i said that there's no DOUBT that hating on baby girls is DEFINITELY the epitome of inequality, that can't even be debated!

but in terms of WOMAN...then equality=choice... the thing is that traditionally, woman has always been the nurturer....and that's respectful in its own....jsut as a man has a role, a woman has a role... equality..

i am ALL FOR changing roles...that's why i'm defining it as "choice"... because it's natural that roles change over time... i mean, in canada's public service, there's something called "PATERNAL leave"!! isn't that fantastic? such an opportunity that the woman can stay and work, and the father takes the year off...is that equality or what? the parents have a choice about which parent is going to take time off to raise the kid...

i'm not saying there IS equality..but i'm just saying, i think it needs to be defined before you can talk about it... and for me, equality = choice.... amankaur bhanji said it best..in the WORLD, women have neve rhad more equality..in SIKHI...there's always equality... AMONG SIKHS...not so much....

i know you said that it's not just about the choice of work vs. home and stuff.... but the thing about choice applies to the situations you described too.. like.. girls not being able to choose their own educational path... like i said..if you want equality, give her choice.... so on that front, i'll agree..there isn't equality. seems like SIKHS are lagging BEHIND the world (what a shame, eh? I'm sure Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji would be proud :wub: )

That's what i'm saying though... I'm totally for women's rights and equality...i just don't think it's up to MAN to start some feminist movement.... supporting it is one thing...but beginning a feminist revolution of sorts is probably the epitome of inequality...because as i said...as much as the intention is good....what..can a woman not fight for her own equality? in this WORLD, i'll say yes (although not PERFECTLY equal, there's awhole lot more equality now than ever before)

among singhnees it's probly different, but in white cultures, it's really really funny to see...my law professor once asked all the girls in my class to take a survey.. By raising their hands to say yes, the following questions were asked:

1) do you want to be paid equal to men

2) do you want to be offered the same promotional opportunities as men?

3) do you want the same number of female politicians in office as men?

4) do you want to see a female leader of a nation?

5) when in times of war, proscription is called (essentially the forced participation to battle in war), should women be forced as well?

6) historically, men have longer prison times for even petty crimes. should women as well?

needless to say, nearly all the girls in that law class raised their hand yes to the first 4...and nearly NONE raised their hand to the 5th and 6th! like i said,maybe among singhnees, it's different, and they'll brave up and have that bir rass to go fight too.. but maybe not, can't genearlize.

i know that that whole little survey discussion isn't quite in line with the topic we're talking about.. but the point is that you have to define equality, before you can talk about it...

the right to choose your life partner

the right to choose your education

the right to choose your job

the right to choose if you want to stay home or work

the right to choose pretty much anything (....though not abortion hehe... call me a hypocrit, but i don't like that one!)

[khalsaforce]

fighting for women rights yeah right. I rather jump off a bridge then wasting my time in protests. Man we got deep things to worry about like to achieve khalistan and to take part in the sikh revolution. Dont go out and waste your time on feminist revolution. Just do ur nitnem and do something for the kaum dont go out their supporting stupid stuff. I dont even get why women want more rights?I never seen no discrimination against women, if we do see it who cares go on with your own thing. I guess thats how its supposed to be and thats how akal purakh wanted it. Go do something good and help homeless people dont waste ur money on protest and also on those khalistani protest. Man I am tellin our people are wasting maya that can be needed for something important. they just throwing those protests and no one is hearing. Just sit tight for a while and let it roll as its roling cuz if u try to stop it u will get crushed under it. So be cool cuz you u cant change nothin.I see life everyday in a hood, cuz when someone is gonna point a gun at u he aint gonna say u a women i give u a soft bullet or u a men i give u a hard bullet, he gonna kill u and u gotta take the bullet and u gonna die and I dont see any discrimnation in death. Some man act hard from outside but women can break their back easily so ya aint gotta worry about nothin. Ya wanna live ur life then live it and let other live cuz dont start this <admin-profanity filter activated> about equal rights cuz no one has ever gotten equal rights, ya feel me. So just chill and remember waheguroo and do ur thing the hard way or the easy. your choice. This world is full of <admin-profanity filter activated> now, so ya becareful out there about khalistanis. My pops been into this khadkoo stuff man, let me tell u people u believe that are true khalistanis hell no they aint no true khalistanis they fukin wussies. True khalistanis are those who out of this world alright. U wanna be a true khalistani then fight for khalistan dont sit their cryin about it or carrying those wooden boards they killed 200,000 SIKHS,aint noone care about that <admin-profanity filter activated>, we the sikhz gotta do somethin about it no one else. no UN no USA no NONE its all about us. My bad but once again my niggas dont get into that equal <admin-profanity filter activated> cuz u aint gettin ur rights, u dont decide ur rights its someone else who has authority over u. <admin-profanity filter activated> ya want equal rights in this world first get equal rights in ur family, i bet it will take 100 years to get equal rights in a family. ya stay chillin do u thing support khalistan try to remember waheguroo and just let it roll.

This ur nigga Romie(khalsaforce's cousin)

Also khalsaforce's dad had a stroke and he aint here so I was just checkin stuff on his pc. He wil be back in a month or two. I am a get my own account on ss until I am in arkansas for a month.

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

im not trying to be rude or offensive here...the reply might sound like it...but don’t take it that way.

(Takes a deep breath..and talks calmly...)

i understand where u are comin frm japmans but

i dont think the issue is whether women want to stay home or work...

its more thn that.

u think people dont want baby girls because they dont want them to grow up and say "oh we wanna work... we wanna make money and get educated?"

its about respect some girls dont get and put downs sometimes some girls face just because they are girls. Again I am not talking about evry girl. My parents have never stopped me from doing some just because I was a girl. and like someone above have said...sometimes its the guys in my family who get the :D thn the girls. so ya one can say tht my family doesn't treate guys right..lol

even in west...i have many girl (non-desi) classmates who tell me they are in teachin program because thats what their parents thought was best for them. i mean its 2006 and thz what they said.

there r many more things..

bhul chuk muaf karni

Akal sahai

Vaheguruu :wub:

Not even an IOTA of offense taken bhaina.

But i think we're still saying the same thing... my definition of equality is choice. Like i said, the issue of frowning upon baby girls is untouchable..that is easily the biggest issue of inequality.... but if we're gonna talk about WOMEN.... then i think it's a slightly different issue. WOMAN, i am assuming, means grown up girl... an infant simply doesn't come under that definition... and that's why i said that there's no DOUBT that hating on baby girls is DEFINITELY the epitome of inequality, that can't even be debated!

but in terms of WOMAN...then equality=choice... the thing is that traditionally, woman has always been the nurturer....and that's respectful in its own....jsut as a man has a role, a woman has a role... equality..

i am ALL FOR changing roles...that's why i'm defining it as "choice"... because it's natural that roles change over time... i mean, in canada's public service, there's something called "PATERNAL leave"!! isn't that fantastic? such an opportunity that the woman can stay and work, and the father takes the year off...is that equality or what? the parents have a choice about which parent is going to take time off to raise the kid...

i'm not saying there IS equality..but i'm just saying, i think it needs to be defined before you can talk about it... and for me, equality = choice.... amankaur bhanji said it best..in the WORLD, women have neve rhad more equality..in SIKHI...there's always equality... AMONG SIKHS...not so much....

i know you said that it's not just about the choice of work vs. home and stuff.... but the thing about choice applies to the situations you described too.. like.. girls not being able to choose their own educational path... like i said..if you want equality, give her choice.... so on that front, i'll agree..there isn't equality. seems like SIKHS are lagging BEHIND the world (what a shame, eh? I'm sure Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji would be proud :wub: )

That's what i'm saying though... I'm totally for women's rights and equality...i just don't think it's up to MAN to start some feminist movement.... supporting it is one thing...but beginning a feminist revolution of sorts is probably the epitome of inequality...because as i said...as much as the intention is good....what..can a woman not fight for her own equality? in this WORLD, i'll say yes (although not PERFECTLY equal, there's awhole lot more equality now than ever before)

among singhnees it's probly different, but in white cultures, it's really really funny to see...my law professor once asked all the girls in my class to take a survey.. By raising their hands to say yes, the following questions were asked:

1) do you want to be paid equal to men

2) do you want to be offered the same promotional opportunities as men?

3) do you want the same number of female politicians in office as men?

4) do you want to see a female leader of a nation?

5) when in times of war, proscription is called (essentially the forced participation to battle in war), should women be forced as well?

6) historically, men have longer prison times for even petty crimes. should women as well?

needless to say, nearly all the girls in that law class raised their hand yes to the first 4...and nearly NONE raised their hand to the 5th and 6th! like i said,maybe among singhnees, it's different, and they'll brave up and have that bir rass to go fight too.. but maybe not, can't genearlize.

i know that that whole little survey discussion isn't quite in line with the topic we're talking about.. but the point is that you have to define equality, before you can talk about it...

the right to choose your life partner

the right to choose your education

the right to choose your job

the right to choose if you want to stay home or work

the right to choose pretty much anything (....though not abortion hehe... call me a hypocrit, but i don't like that one!)

[japmans]

hello Romie,

so...am i alone in noticing the flaw in your whole post?

"maybe this is how it's supposed to be, maybe akal purakh wanted it this way!"

mabye you're right...we probly can't change anything...therefore, do not try

but then...

"go out and do something good, do something worthwhile"

whoa whoa whoa..you mean... we should do something even thoguh we can bring NO change whatsoever? wouldn't THAT be a waste?

or have you decided what man can and can't accomplish....cuz if you have, then i got alot more questions for you to answer...like..."What's the meaning of life?"

if you wana start a khalistan topic, please respect the others and make a new topic so that the people who actually WANT to talk about this cna continue without someone taking it on a tangent :wub:

vaheguruvaheguruvaheguru

[wjkk wjkf]

referring to "Khalsaforce's" recent reply...U say that maybe Akal Purakh wanted things this way however, if we applied that theory to everything in life, where would we be? I can understand no being able to change things but that shouldn't stop us from trying should it? It shouln't stop us from trying to get Khalistan or doing similar things should it? If people just said that 'it's all in Gods will' they wouldn't do anything! From putting clothes their on to fighting oppression and lots more!

Bhul Chukk Maaf

[Khalsa_Girl_1]

hmm...

this is a good topic in my opinion...but hey

think abt it when lookin at the entire world itself...

my post might come out to be offensive...but its not..im sorry if it will offend anyone..but its just me expressin my views. its not going to any individual or a gender or w/e...

its me and my views:

our Sikhi...our rules of Sikhi...our followers of Sikhi...

compare all of that to other things...

do any of you know when women in Canada were FIRST allowed to vote????

any of you???

think abt the date!!!

how long did women have to wait for it???

now...look at Sikhi.

women had this right when our Gurus were preaching.

i dont get this equal rights thing...

i HONESTLY dont think theres equality anywhere you go.

women in Canada still face sexism. they dont get paid as much as the guys.

THEN...you get women who DONT WANT to do something cuz theyre too chicken

look at things like...whenever theres issues in the Sikh kaum...theres a meetin etc.

my daddy always goes to these meetings if he got time and all...

my mom?? hell no.

i tell her to go. she says "Buriaa nee jaandeeaa" (women dont go)

i say "why not"

she say "cuz its not a place for us women"

i say "why not. whats in those meetings that prevent us from going"

she say "thats the way it is, and you cant argue with this fact"

i say "whatever. after i turn 20, ima go to all these meetings."

she say "you'll be looked down upon"

i say "whaaa?? why?"

she say "cuz you'll be the only girl"

then i make my final statement:

"i'll take other girls with me"

then...my mom calls me a rebel.

"LOOKED DOWN UPON"???????

"REBEL"???????

now the probs that come up here are:

1.) girls in our community NOT wanting to go forward.

how many girls do you see protesting??

if guys have the mic...how many girls do you see walk up and take the mic and start speakin??

how many do you see who even TAKE the mic when its being OFFERED???

2.) girls are being stopped by people like their moms.... :wub:

girls dont really have THAT much of a CHOICE when theyre younger than the age of like 20ish....??

and to just bring a small conclusion...

i'd like to say...

that im still living...even if i dont have equal rights...

just cuz i dont got equal rights, dont mean that i aint got a path that leads me to God

this kind of thing dont stop girls from reaching bliss...

so we dont really have to worry THAT much

ya, at times we do...but...

thing is

....dont look like we gonna get equal rights...

peace...GurFateh.

[wjkk wjkf]

Could never have put it better myself! Great insite bhenji!

[Romie]

man why u people not gettin. i didn't say we cant do anything about everything, i was sayin women cant get equal rights cuz tell me how many women have gotten equal rights from the past <admin-profanity filter activated> hell yeah NONE, but how many people have gotten freedom and land, oohh yeah MANY. I was pointin some studid stuff sikhs do these days, u cant win no rights for women but u can feed a homeless guy cant u. u tell me urself can u win rights for women?

referring to "Khalsaforce's" recent reply...U say that maybe Akal Purakh wanted things this way however, if we applied that theory to everything in life, where would we be? I can understand no being able to change things but that shouldn't stop us from trying should it? It shouln't stop us from trying to get Khalistan or doing similar things should it? If people just said that 'it's all in Gods will' they wouldn't do anything! From putting clothes their on to fighting oppression and lots more!

Bhul Chukk Maaf