Gnnsj Sevadars

[randip singh]

At GNNSJ-do all 5 of the piaray administer amrit or just one of them?

Do they teach naam dhrir / saas giraas techniques ?

I'd really appreciate a response on this one-thanks in advance.

WJKK

WJKF

Go to India mate somewhere like Amritsar...or Shahid Ganj.....make an event of it. :D

[N30S1NGH]

Gurfateh All,

I will make two posts, one post is entierely with sources of naam jugtiya i have posted , reliablity and source of tapoban naam dridh and its reliablity, which balpreet singh loves to quote and second post to cover all the points singh132 quoted in his reply.

Singh 132,

Only puratan source you have to back up naam dridth vidhi being full 100 percent gurmat jugti is from granth called- prem sumarag granth. Otherwise you got nothing except bachans of bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji to further back up naam dridtha which is same as any sant mahapursh bachan which i quoted.

Respectin the jugti given by mahapursh aside from both sides, lets look at the naam jugtiya from puratan sources.

Singh 132 loves to quote prem sumarag granth a lot to prove naam dridtha being one and only jugti as puratan source.

Let me quote from prem sumaraag granth and let the sangat decide how reliable is manmati granth is at the first place, this granth is only used by akj and tapobanis a they pick and chose what they like so that they can make their home made Cooked "Gurmat" philopshy.. this is used by them to prove their source of naam dridtha is puratan.

will give the page and the exact quotation

pg.34; chapter 4, section 4:

The procedure to be followed by the bridegroom is as follows:

Four days before the wedding give the bridegroom goat meat and wheat bread (phulka) to eat. Do this at noon. When night comes give him as much as much milk as he can drink. Prepare wads made from betel leaf, nutmeg, mace, clove, , musk and small cardamom, and during the course of the full 24 hours, give him 10 such wads to eat

pg. 54 chapter 4, section 13

If the daughter of a Muslim should ask to become a khalsa and marry a khalsa sikh, the procedure is as follows. First wash her and then carefully bury her in the ground. Ensure she can breath and that her eyes are protected, but otherwise bury her completely so that no part of her can be seen. Dig her out almost immediately and wash her (again). She should then say "Holiest of Divine Names, the one Sri Akal Purakh".

pg. 54 chapter 4, section 15

Thereafter feed her pork for 51 days and then she shall be purified.

pg. 54 chapter 4, section 16

Any child of a second marriage can be married to a child born of first marriage parents. This should be an occassion for neither gossip nor disapproval.

p.59 chapter 5, section 4

One must take care when eating meat, however, and likewise fish. Note first that wild animals may be eaten. Those which are killed with a weapon are considered pure.... what kinds of meat may be eaten? The best is wild boar, then rhinocerous, various kinds of deer, goat, sheep, and hare....Anyone who ist not particularly fond of eating fish should nevertheless do so occassionally.

pg. 65 chapter 6, section 4

What clothes should a sikh wear ? First he should wear a turban consisting of one long piece of good quality cloth, and in it a feather plume. ....It is permissable to wear pearl earrings and other male jewellery

To consider this peace of manmati granth as reliable, authentic is maha manmat and automatically looses crediblity in academics. Hence, singh132 quotes of prem sumarag granth of naam dridtha, cannot be called as reliable source, as it lacks - Consistency. Any vidvan will agree with this, and laugh at this attitude of picking and choose from manmati granth like - as if you are in buffet, pick what you like, ignore what you dislike..!!!

oh holy macro, how reliable and consistent?

Now lets look at the sources i have given from soraj parkash granth sahib,

1. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji updesh to mata ajeeto kaur on naam jugti

According to a prasang(divan) on chapter of mata ajeeto kaur reaching enlightment. Mata ajeto kaur was under guidance of siri guroo gobind singh where she was taught all the "YOG SADHNA/Shabad Surat Marg where chakras are used", when mata ji did yog sadhna, when her birthi(dhyaan) reached - Trikurti/3rd eye..she started seeing the future e.g. the besiegement of Sri Anandpur Sahib, leaving the kila etc and the shaheedia of the char sahibjadey. After seeing this in a dream she asked Guru Gobind Singh jee whether this was true, Guru Sahib confirmed this.

to listen to whole parsang: listen

http://www.ektaone.com/audio/Lectures/Sant...Jeeto_Ji_18.mp3

2. Bhai Dya Singh Ji atam gyan discourse with sikhsangat which is also from soraj parkash granth, translations could be found there: , this is from audio katha of gyani thakur singh ji. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry169211

Now I do beleive sooraj parkash granth is also cannot be taken as gospel truth since it has been edited by bhai vir singh ji because of anti gurmat stuff in it too. But it all comes down, which puratan source is more reliable by looking its contents. Soraj parkash granth has only few anti gurmat things in it which were edited out and soraj parkash granth is only ethasik granth and is widely widely accepted by all the gurmat vidvans including one of tapoban vidvan- bhai kulbir singh ji whereas prem samurag granth is laughing stock itself by gurmat vidvans because of full of "MAHA Manmat" things, inconsistencies written in this peace of work, all over this source, prove above.

Soraj Parkash granth is only ethahik granth and has collection of written/oral stories of guru's, gursikhs, gurmat advait marg, gurmat spiritual knowledge widely. Mind you these collection of written oral stories goes back to gurus time as well, bhai sahib ji time have collected this writings and also expressed devotion towards guru sahib in words.

First thing if you go taksal is they teach you santhia then they teach you this soraj parkash granth

Singh132,

So these thousands of Singhs would be living together but they would have no access to a saroop of Guru Granth Sahib, and thus they would do amrit sinchaars with a pothi? And I should believe you because a Nihang told you. Right. Find me any written source.

As i said, times were rough, attack could come anytime/anywhere. Having sri guru granth sahib saroop in that harsh times, singhs decided not to jeporadize sanity/safety of sri guru granth sahib, i dont know if you seen gatra type of jabi on nihangs singhs, they usually carry all their gutkas, pothi, mala in that jabi so even in harsh gruesome war times they would never give nitneem not just panj baniya, they used to das granthi patt which would be atleast 5 hrs.

Sorry i dont have any written source.

As i said this was very exceptional case, i m in no way promoting this at these times. The reason i posted this sakhi is because everything is not black and white in sikhi, Sensible reader would read my post in context.

if there was no Dasam Granth at the time of Guru Gobind Singh, how or why is it necessary in amrit sinchaars now?

I am not arguing here that sri dasam granth is recommended for amrit sanchar. This is what nihangs of india beleive, as you told me to post takth maryada, dasam granth parkash in hazoor sahib and patna sahib still carry on this day in amrit sanchar..however they don't impose or claim amrit sanchar without sri dasam bir is invalid.

Again their focus and reasoning sounds more significant because they dont impose than yours..your focus on sarbloh is being must otherwise is invalid.. your focus and reasoning of sarbloh being must otherwise is invalid is same as nihangs of uk who takes maryada of having sri dasam granth in amrit sanchar otherwise invalid to some next level !!!!!!!!.

Again point was to show you how mindset of two extremes are very very indentical despite of these extremes(Tapoban) and nihangs of uk clash against each other on every thing else. Mindset is all same !!!!!!!

Where is your source for this? Khalsa’s Gurmantar is ONE. All jagiasoo get the same mantar. What kind of Brahmnical nonsense are you talking about that each person gets a different mantar? Gurmantar is what we take amrit for. This Gurmantar is only ONE. Gurmantar is Naam and is “shabad”.

Khalsa Gurmantar is one- Vahiguroo, no one denies that.. however jaigaso getting same mantar i cant be in position to say that, because i m not in panj pyares seva, i m not in judge to someone's avastha. Panj Pyares can because all the panj pyares if we look at orginal form were all bhramgyanis- bhai dya singh ji, bhai dharam singh ji, bhai himmat singh ji, bhai Bhai Mukham Singh ji, bhai sahib singh ji.

Vahiguroo mantar, is everything but main purpose is remedy to loose ego(ahankar) all together, that's what its say according to bhai gurdas ji varan.

Ikongkar is for advance seekers,- bij mantar, source- gyani thakur singh ji damdami taksal vidvan student of sant kartar singh ji bhindranwale. his work- japji sahib audio katha, he cautions in the katha- not to recite ikongkar alone for begineers for its intensity.

you asked me to give you source: atamgyan katha of bhai dya singh ji to sangat, look into soraj parkash granth, bhai dya singh ji giving that group of people to recite on satnam(Parpoobal).

Who am I to question Bhai Daya Singh? I’m question YOU. You know as well as I do that Sooraj Parkash was written much after the time of Bhai Daya Singh. Gurbani is clear that Naam is given and taught by Satguru. In the present time, no ONE Gursikh can give naam or teach the jugti. It is taught by the Punj Pyaaray in Hazoori of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and at that time they are Guru Roop and have this right. No single Mahant or Saadh can have this power. That’s what we call Gurudoms and Santdoms.

Soraj parkash granth may be newer but is widely accepted by many scholars from different samparda unlike manmati granth- prem sumarag granth you loved to quote look post above., hell even - bhai sahib kulbir singh ji from tapoban goes all poetic when he writes about soraj parkash granth.

You want to label this as- gurudom, santdom, lets start with bhai dya singh ji , he was the first one and given authority, mukhi out of respect by other pyares to give out divine discourse(atam gyani) katha to sikh sangat, in that discourse, not just one jugti but jugtiya are mentioned it shows diversity of the panth instead of black and white sikhi which you seem to show to the sangat.

This post had nothing to do with Tapoban Sahib. But for some reason (venomous hatred) you keep bringing it up. The bibi who told me this clearly said that she went for Amrit and was told it was ready and needed to be administered only. I’ve heard this before as well. At any rate *I* never made any accusation.

I dont know if she really asked for amrit to intiate or just amrit to drink the one you purify by reciting patt (sukhmani sahib, or just panj baniyas), if you got problem with people who gives out amrit to drink or take ishnan then take it straight against darbar sahib, take it against famous sakhi of prema kohri , take it against darbar sahib ramdas sarovar which this bibi with her devotion and faith went to darbar sahib and got his leeper husband healed, take it against puratan samparda(taksal, nirmale, nihangs) who have pitcher of water close to akhand patt.

Neverthless distincation has to be made between amrit( immortal drink (amrit prepared by khanda) to intiate and amrit(just water) naturally made by just reciting patt,... distincation has to be made before posting ignorant comments like oh they gave her amrit(intiated her into khalsa panth ) by giving her bottle of amrit to drink.

As for Dasam Granth: you’re once again mistaken. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh has quoted from Dasam Granth quite a bit. If one person says he has no opinion (care to back that up with a reference?) that doesn’t apply to everyone that goes to a single Gurdwara. As for acting like “warriors”, I said once before and I’ll say it again, come see for yourself.

Show us reference, bhai sahib beleived in full sri dasam granth included chandi di //, chandi charitar, treh charitar, shastar nam mala?

Ssingh,

I think that it is real blasphemy to say that Dasam Granth should be done Parkash along with Guru Granth Sahib Jee at an Amrit Sinchaar. As Sikhs we all respect Dasam Bani like we respect the Bani of other Gurus and Bhagats, but to give Dasam Granth Guru status when Dasam Patsha himself gave Gurgadi to Damdami bir is just an innovation. Maybe if we think we know more than Guru Gobind Singh Jee about Gurmat, then by all means add all innovations as you please. And Guru Jee is that which Guru Gobind Singh Jee gave Gurgaddi to. There are no ifs and not buts, it is that simple.

Real Blasphemy dont think so,

I just dont see how respect our beloved tenth guru writings and including that in our amrit sanchar is blasphemy, you make it sound like we are including kachi bani in amrit sanchar, after all its dasam bani.

I know sri guru granth sahib is given pritham guru status by sri guru gobind singh out of respect of his elder gurus but that doesnt devalue sri dasam granth sahib..it has gurbani so as sri guru granth sahib ji, dont panj pyares read three banis from dasam granth in amrit sanchar? are they committing blasphemy? are we commit blasphemy when we read three banis from dasam granth.. how silly your comment were.. just read your comment againt man.

Regardless, at the end of day, regardless of all jathas and samparda disagreements, we all agree on takth maryada's, sri akaal takth had parkash of sri dasam granth as well sri guru granth sahib until new age tat khalsa came, but these new age tat khalsa couldnt change anything in patna sahib and sachkhand sri hazoor sahib, where parkash of sri dasam granth is done, just because parkash is done does not meant distincation is not made to as who is pritam guru ? you will see sri guru granth sahib palki is little higher than sri dasam granth.

Without our Guru, there is no initiation into the order of the Khalsa. Today some are now claiming it is ok to use a pothi, tomorrow someone will say, let us just put a computer with Guru Granth Sahib Jee stored into it and conduct an amrit sanchaar. I’m sorry to say, but it just isn’t an amrit Sanchaar without Guru Jee.

As i said, times were rough, attack could come anytime/anywhere. Having sri guru granth sahib saroop in that harsh times, singhs decided not to jeporadize sanity/safety of sri guru granth sahib, i dont know if you seen gatra type of jabi on nihangs singhs, they usually carry all their gutkas, pothi, mala in that jabi so even in harsh gruesome war times they would never give nitneem not just panj baniya, they used to das granthi patt which would be atleast 5 hrs.

Sorry i dont have any written source.

As i said this was very exceptional case, i m in no way promoting this at these times. The reason i posted this sakhi is because everything is not black and white in sikhi, Sensible reader would read my post in context

[(S Singh)]

Namstang,

We do satkar of Dasam Granth because it contains Gurbani. But when Guru Gobind Singh Jee himself gave Gurgadi to Damdami Bir, who are we to act more Siyaanay then Guru Jee and do parkash of Dasam Granth along with the DamDami Bir? Unless of course Guru Jee is fallible and needed to be corrected by us.

To make innovations or deviations at an Amrit Sanchaar from what Guru Jee did while alive in human form is blasphemy. Just give us one puraatan source which says that Guru Gobind Singh Jee also did Parkash of a Dasam Granth bir alongside the Damdami Bir at an amrit sanchaar and I will believe you. But sorry to say, you will not even find one source stating this. These are all innovations which we have added along the centuries. 100 years from now, some one may decide to add more innovations by adding Bani of Bhagats which is not in SGGSJ and do parkash of them in a separate granth. But I guess that would also be ok with you because Sikhs can now decide what to give Gurgadi to. Damdami bir was not good enough, so will should now give Gurgadi to Dasam Granth.

As for getting amrit with just a pothi, I would also prefer some real sources rather than hearsay.

Without Panj Pyaray, there is no Amrit Sanchaar.

Without a Sarbloh Bata/Khanda there is no Amrit Sanchaar.

Without Guru, there is not Amrit Sanchaar.

These are traditions which everyone/group/Jatha/Sampradah follows. So I don’t see why you are arguing otherwise.

[N30S1NGH]

Namstang,

We do satkar of Dasam Granth because it contains Gurbani. But when Guru Gobind Singh Jee himself gave Gurgadi to Damdami Bir, who are we to act more Siyaanay then Guru Jee and do parkash of Dasam Granth along with the DamDami Bir? Unless of course Guru Jee is fallible and needed to be corrected by us.

Nobody is arguing that guru gobind singh ji himself didnt give gurgaddi to sri guru granth sahib ji, you will see in my post , where i clearly stated in hazoor sachkhand sahib, i ll write in bold now- , just because parkash is done does not meant distincation is not made to as who is pritam guru ? you will see sri guru granth sahib palki is little higher than sri dasam granth.

Nihangs do the same thing, thats their way of showing respect to both gurbani yet clearly having an distincation that pritham guru is sri guru granth sahib ji which is adorn on highest palki.

I dont know what else you need? do you want to treat dasam bani as kachi bani.. oh well thats your loss.

As i said before, its not like i agree with the statement dasam granth must be there in amrit sanchar otherwise is invalid. I made that comment because read the post carefully replied to singh132

As for getting amrit with just a pothi, I would also prefer some real sources rather than hearsay.

Without Panj Pyaray, there is no Amrit Sanchaar.

Without a Sarbloh Bata/Khanda there is no Amrit Sanchaar.

Without Guru, there is not Amrit Sanchaar.

These are traditions which everyone/group/Jatha/Sampradah follows. So I don’t see why you are arguing otherwise.

Fully agreed, i dont know why you getting soo worked up.. that story may be true or may be false.. i hope you dont base your opnion of me on that story alone.. as i was just trying to show there are exceptions by that story i heard,, fine dont accept it, after all i do admit is just a story whether true or false dont know, nobody is shoving that down in your throat or sangat's throat... i dont know why you have insecurity just because i posted an story that might be true or false which i dont even know fully.. this nihang singh told me this story, way he told me, i belevied it .. simple as that. .. i just shared it.. nobody is going out there to convince akaal takth to change its maryada of amrit based on that story.. as i myself against amrit sanchar with no sri guru granth sahib present at these times of now, lavish lives we live, no harsh circumstances now.. as i said read that story in the context may be it will make sense.

[sall]

Just one thought

Great discussion loads of information for the joe average sikhs like me to comprehend. Amrit/ and amrit discussion over the past couple of decades has become daaaal as mentioned by Professor Darshan Singh Jee, it's because one says one's version is better than the other. Guru Ji gave us something simple and we've made it real complex could we ever simplyfie it again and unite under one banner..Akal Takht Sahib. These discussions are mostly taken the wrong way and people sometimes ignore them, there is something to learn from them when you compare to Gurbani and teachings. Let me examplify what I am trying to say Gurabni clearly mentions "every living human being possess the sarvor of nectar of amrit" but not everyone takes the pauol. We take the "pauol of the khanda" and not amrit. After taking pauol then one has to churn and do naam/Gurbani kamai to chrun the amrit which resides on the inside.We DO NOT TAKE AMRIT, only khande de pauol , understand this then we may get somewhere. If I'm wrong please correct me.

[Singh132]

Only puratan source you have to back up naam dridth vidhi being full 100 percent gurmat jugti is from granth called- prem sumarag granth.

Before referring to “home-cooked” Gurmat and the like, perhaps you should do more research. My reference to Prem Sumarag or any puraatan source is never absolute. I’ve gone over my “methodology” with you before but here it is again. If there is something mentioned in one text and not backed up anywhere else, then that can be excluded. If something is mentioned in more than one puratan source and furthermore seems like Gurmat and is backed by other non-written sources, then that has some weight.

If you want to use the “all or none” technique as you’re advocating, then because Suraj Parkash has some objectionable things, it all should be rejected. You yourself don’t accept the assertion that Ragmala isn’t Gurbani, so why do you continue to quote from Suraj Parkash?

Regarding the technique for naam, Sant Teja Singh wrote the following in his biography of Sant Attar Singh:

"The method of reciting naam (naam japan dee jugath) has been passed down from Gursikh to Gursikh. But this daas has only seen it written in two places. In Sau Sakhi its says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj tells Mata Jeetho Ji that the tip of the tounge (jeeb di teesy), with force (jOr naal), should touch the roof of the mouth (thaloo naal), and at all times keep saying Waheguru Waheguru.

Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh, the one who sat and listened to the recitation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by Sri Guru Gobind Singh himself, in Bhai Gurdas Ji's 'yarwee waar' in 'sheeha thay gajan dee sakhee', has written that when our breath goes in we should say 'Wahe' and when our breath goes out we should say 'guru'"

There you have 2 more puraatan sources with the very same technique. Clearly it can’t be brushed aside as “home cooked” Gurmat.

Again their focus and reasoning sounds more significant because they dont impose than yours..your focus on sarbloh is being must otherwise is invalid.. your focus and reasoning of sarbloh being must otherwise is invalid is same as nihangs of uk who takes maryada of having sri dasam granth in amrit sanchar otherwise invalid to some next level !!!!!!!!.

Every single jathebandi says sarbloh khanda and bata is a must. Try to tell a Nihang they are not. Try to tell ANYONE they are not. But you would have us accepting “amrit” prepared in, once again, plastic bowls with wooden spoons. Sarbloh is a basic rehit for amrit sinchaars.

Vahiguroo mantar, is everything but main purpose is remedy to loose ego(ahankar) all together, that's what its say according to bhai gurdas ji varan.

Ikongkar is for advance seekers,- bij mantar, source- gyani thakur singh ji damdami taksal vidvan student of sant kartar singh ji bhindranwale. his work- japji sahib audio katha, he cautions in the katha- not to recite ikongkar alone for begineers for its intensity.

So let me get this straight: you think there is something more powerful than Gurmantar? This mantar that has been revealed by Guru Nanak is the greatest mantar ever to have been revealed. The focus on Gurmantar in Gurbani is HUGE. Gurbani says over and over to jap gurmantar. What a karmic hole you are digging for yourself. To call anything higher than Gurmantar is blasphemy in the HIGHEST form.

ਤਿਸੁ ਬਾਹੁੜਿ ਗਰਭਿ ਨ ਪਾਵਹੀ ਜਿਸੁ ਦੇਵਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤਾ ॥

If Gurmantar has this power, then what other mantar is needed? Whoever suggests that other mantars are more powerful is frankly deluded I don’t care if he is Gyani Thakur Singh or anyone else. No where in bani does it say to jap anything but Gurmat Naam.

Show us reference, bhai sahib beleived in full sri dasam granth included chandi di //, chandi charitar, treh charitar, shastar nam mala?

Why? What kind of a question is this? So now you will assume by default he didn’t believe in Dasam Granth until proven otherwise. This is frankly stupid. Do you apply this to all puratan Gursikhs? Show me references where Sant Attar Singh, Baba Nand Singh or Bhagat Puran Singh said they believe in all of Dasam Granth.

[N30S1NGH]

Regarding the technique for naam, Sant Teja Singh wrote the following in his biography of Sant Attar Singh:

"The method of reciting naam (naam japan dee jugath) has been passed down from Gursikh to Gursikh. But this daas has only seen it written in two places. In Sau Sakhi its says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj tells Mata Jeetho Ji that the tip of the tounge (jeeb di teesy), with force (jOr naal), should touch the roof of the mouth (thaloo naal), and at all times keep saying Waheguru Waheguru.

Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh, the one who sat and listened to the recitation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by Sri Guru Gobind Singh himself, in Bhai Gurdas Ji's 'yarwee waar' in 'sheeha thay gajan dee sakhee', has written that when our breath goes in we should say 'Wahe' and when our breath goes out we should say 'guru'".

Sau Sakhi you referenced regarding mata ajeeto kaur ji technique of naam japping, i m also quoting from the same sau sakhi mentioned in soraj parkash granth but in bhai kavi singh santokh ji words.

Here is the whole parsang: Quite interesting that you mention only begineers stuff- the tip of the tounge (jeeb di teesy), with force (jOr naal), should touch the roof of the mouth (thaloo naal), and at all times keep saying Waheguru Waheguru and you forgot to reference stuff from the same source which contradicts your beleif rest of like- sri guru gobind singh recommend her to take birthi over para banii. Para Bani- When one recites naam in Nabhi(Navel) without moving tongue by that naturally one invokes sukhmana nadi-vein and that nadi gets open up. She just followed up what guru maharaj said, then she went to guru maharaj asked for more kirpa, guru maharaj ji said now you should take your birthi/dhyaan towards- trikurti and do abhyas with surat on there then after she started doing that, then she started seeing the future along with supernatural world, e.g. the besiegement of Sri Anandpur Sahib, leaving the kila etc and the shaheedia of the char sahibjadey. After seeing this in a dream she asked Guru Gobind Singh jee whether this was true, Guru Sahib confirmed this.

. I’ve gone over my “methodology” with you before but here it is again. If there is something mentioned in one text and not backed up anywhere else, then that can be excluded. If something is mentioned in more than one puratan source and furthermore seems like Gurmat and is backed by other non-written sources, then that has some weight.

If you want to use the “all or none” technique as you’re advocating, then because Suraj Parkash has some objectionable things, it all should be rejected. You yourself don’t accept the assertion that Ragmala isn’t Gurbani, so why do you continue to quote from Suraj Parkash?

Not in edited version by bhai vir singh ji, nevertheless, if one has read both puratan sources, one without any question finds soraj parkash granth authentic over prem sumarag granth. Prem Sumarag granth is filled with manmat stuff like these above quoted, the quotes i posted were some quotes only, if you wish i can fill up the damn page with manmati quotes mentioned in your puratan source.

Bhai Gurdas Ji varan deals also with shabad surat marg like tells you about surti following dhuni (resosance).

Whether you like it or not there are many than one jugti existed in Gurmat and parvan in Gurmat, and I have nothing against akj technique, i think its fully valid but so are OTHERS to claim this is only valid technique and leaving no room for other jugtiyas despite of puratan sources mentioning it, i wont just sit here and let you make that blunt bold statements and get way with your superamcy of naam dridtha.

[Singh132]

Namastang,

Find out what exactly the process of naam abhyaas is before you say something is or isn't the technique. I didn't give any reference, I simply quoted Sant Teja Singh. He has cited Sau Sakhi and also Sikhan Di Bhagatmala by Bhai Mani Singh. This is not my research but his. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh has written about the method and he makes it clear that the process STARTS with the tongue and rasna. The process of naam abhyaas starts there and then different stages take place and result in ajapaa jaap and making the naam reside in dasam duaar, etc. But once again, the process starts at the tongue.

Before criticising or commenting on the method, read about it. It's found as the last pat of the book (by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh) "Gurmat Naam Abhyaas Kamaiee" and is originally taken from "Gurmat Karam Philosophy".

[khalistan_zindabaad]

hehehehehhehe

its funny how a certain jatha starts of 50 yrs or summit ago and now think they are the panth.... they think they have greater jeevans than puratan gursikhs and try and chakllenge guru jees bani, kakkar and puratan maryada

[(S Singh)]

hehehehehe

What I find funny is how a certain 10 year old kid comes on public forums, and has nothing intelligent to add to a discussion being held by mature adults and thinks his cheap remarks even matter.