Gnnsj Sevadars

[Singh132]

Back in puratan times it was harsh circumstances, there are stories of amrit sanchars where amrit sanchar are held in jungles only pothis was used to instead of sri guru granth sahib ji maharaj intiate people are into the khalsa brother hood because times were harsh- enemy attacks were high on khalsa, these people who intiated in those harsh circumstances, they got shaheediya, would you guys call their amrit invalid? don't think so.

Please give a reference for these type of amrit sinchaars. Where have you read that they took place? What if 5 Singhs couldn’t be found? Could 3 Singhs do the seva? There are rules for the amrit sinchaar which have been followed strictly and I’d be surprised to see any deviation.

I am sure Guru's Mat is much higher than this , that he would care for nitty details in maryada which has socio religious significance not spiritual significance (naam).

For centuries, it has been a rule in the Panth that only sarbloh khanda/bata are to be used. Would you prefer plastic bowl and wooden spoon? I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Are you certain there is no spiritual significance in the sarbloh? I dare say that’s a foolish belief. This isn’t nitty gritty, it goes to the very procedure. Otherwise why not substitute Jaap Sahib with Sukhmani Sahib? It’s “naaaaaaaaaaaaam amrit” right? Foolish arguments. There is a technique taught by Guru Gobind Singh and if you want to deviate from it, it’s a very egotistical mistake.

As for Dasam Granth: was there any Dasam Granth parkaash

Naam is given by panj pyares. But naam jugtiya can be given by mahapursh. First naam is given by only panj pyares. BUT Naam simran jugti can be given by one of pyares who is consider jathedar muki within panj pyares. Traditionally Bhai Dya Singh Ji is known as mukhi of panj pyares, rest of the pyares made him jathedar out of respect, most of decisions were made by him after consulting with his fellow beloved. Whoever is mukhi have full authority to give naam jugtiya regardless if other pyares were present or not.. .. Read a whole chapter of bhagti atamik updesh to sikhs by bhai dya singh ji in Gurpartap Soraj parkash granth.

I’m glad you’ve advanced to the stage where you accept that naam is given by the Punj Pyaaray. But what naam? In the last debate we had, you were saying that there are so many naams. So which should the Punj Pyaaray give? Does it matter? Secondly, you are right that naam is given by the punj pyaaray but out of the punj pyaaray, one Singh is given the seva of teaching the jugti. But the process of doing naam driR is not just giving naam, it also includes teaching the method. DriRta means to make naam reside within. How is this possible if there is no method taught? Only Punj Pyaaray are Guru Roop and ONLY they have the right to teach naam or do “DriRtaa” of naam. Gurbani is clear that only Guru Sahib can do naam driRta. As for Bhai Daya Singh teaching naam outside of amrit sinchaar mandal or alone, it doen’t make sense. No Gursikh, be it Bhai Daya Singh or Baba Deep Singh or any other is a punj pyaara or capable of giving naam outside of amrit sichaar mandal.

There IS a method for naam. You listed all these methods by various Babas. That’s great, but Guru Sahib clearly gave *A* method for japing naam. It can’t be all of them. In Bhattan Dey Svaiyay we’re told that Gursikhs: ਇਸ੍ਨਾਨੁ ਕਰਹਿ ਪਰਭਾਤਿ ਸੁਧ ਮਨਿ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਜਾ ਬਿਧਿ ਸਹਿਤ ਕਰੰ ॥ This means that with the “method” of “bidh” they do Gur Puja/naam jaap. So the method must exist.

At any rate, I’m not sure who would rather learn naam from some Baba as opposed to the Punj Pyaray. Guru Sahib teaches naam and teaches the method for naam. It’s that simple.

I find it very disguisted at looking at arrogrant attitudes of kulbir singh by calling nanaksar amrit sanchar as invalid, well no wonder tapoban gets out cast by nihangs when they cuss them out by being bhramins (not partaking meat) , act like nihangs by using their bana with having no prior knowledge(santhiya and vaikhiya) of dasam granth sahib, no knowledge of shastar vidya yet carry 9 foot kirpan and not having dasam granth sahib in their amrit sanchar yet hijack the label of nihangs by stealing their life style- neela bana.

Atleast nanaksari being nirmale samparda don't act like nihangs because they are stand alone institution and having background links with nirmale (bachuon upsamparda of bhai dya singh ji).

Tapoban seems to have indentiy crisis on its own.

Namastang, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: you are the most venomous person I’ve encountered online. You don’t know any of us that go to Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib but you seem to hate us with a passion I’ve not seen anywhere. At any opportunity you begin your tirades on “neo-Sikhs” and “kattarpanthis”.

The fact is that Nanaksar “amrit” (the one I’ve heard of from people who went for it) is stored in bottles and administered to abhilakhis as they come. It is ready-made and just needs to be administered. Is this amrit?

I’d like to ask you though, what do you know about our knowledge of santhiya and viaakaran. I in fact challenge you to come to the Gurdwara and do a discussion on these topics. I dare say that a lot of these “sampardas” don’t have a clue when it comes to correct pronunciation or viaakaran. How do you know that we don’t have knowledge of Shastar Vidya? I challenge you to come find out the truth about that as well. And as for “hijacking” neela bana: is it your personal copyright or any other samparda’s copyright to wear blue bana? It is my father’s bana and when I became a Singh he gave it to me. I challenge you or anyone else to try to make me stop.

What an irrational and hateful person you are.

[N30S1NGH]

Please give a reference for these type of amrit sinchaars. Where have you read that they took place? What if 5 Singhs couldn’t be found? Could 3 Singhs do the seva? There are rules for the amrit sinchaar which have been followed strictly and I’d be surprised to see any deviation.

There is no reference since this came from budda dal nihang singh. In Budda dal, they usually have oral history traditions taught to them. According to oral history tradition there was event that nihangs have intiated many warriors ready to be khalsa in hazoori sahib of pothi. Sri Guru Granth sahib ji wasnt present because of harsh circumstances.

Your points of 5 singhs cannot be found is silly, khalsa stayed together in hundreds if not in thousands.

For centuries, it has been a rule in the Panth that only sarbloh khanda/bata are to be used. Would you prefer plastic bowl and wooden spoon? I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Are you certain there is no spiritual significance in the sarbloh? I dare say that’s a foolish belief. This isn’t nitty gritty, it goes to the very procedure. Otherwise why not substitute Jaap Sahib with Sukhmani Sahib? It’s “naaaaaaaaaaaaam amrit” right? Foolish arguments. There is a technique taught by Guru Gobind Singh and if you want to deviate from it, it’s a very egotistical mistake.

There is no such thing as 100 percent sarbloh made batta these days, consult with any one who is familiar with this topic, they tell you there is always steel mixed with iron coating outside.

You are putting words in my mouth. when did i said plastic bowl or wooden spoon? I don't think steel made batta qualify as manmat even nihangs tell you that new sarbloh batta or kirpan is mixture of sarbloh(iron) and steele.

I ll get back to you on this note, i know singh from uk who makes kara, titantium ones, i ll ask him if there is such thing as 100 percent sarbloh.

As for Dasam Granth: was there any Dasam Granth parkaash

Sachkhand Hazoor Sahib is one of takhts, so as patiala sahib have dasam granth parkash along with sri guru granth sahib parkash in amrit sanchars.

I’m glad you’ve advanced to the stage where you accept that naam is given by the Punj Pyaaray. But what naam? In the last debate we had, you were saying that there are so many naams. So which should the Punj Pyaaray give? Does it matter? Secondly, you are right that naam is given by the punj pyaaray but out of the punj pyaaray, one Singh is given the seva of teaching the jugti. But the process of doing naam driR is not just giving naam, it also includes teaching the method. DriRta means to make naam reside within. How is this possible if there is no method taught? Only Punj Pyaaray are Guru Roop and ONLY they have the right to teach naam or do “DriRtaa” of naam. Gurbani is clear that only Guru Sahib can do naam driRta. As for Bhai Daya Singh teaching naam outside of amrit sinchaar mandal or alone, it doen’t make sense. No Gursikh, be it Bhai Daya Singh or Baba Deep Singh or any other is a punj pyaara or capable of giving naam outside of amrit sichaar mandal.

Naam Shabad - Vahiguroo is given according to all takths. However, if we look at samparda's - mahapursh have given - satnam, ikongkar, vahiguroo as naam to different jaigaso by looking at each avastha in form of PANJ PYARES.. Whether you beleive it or not , it's up to you or think its gurmat or not its up to you. All I know samparda sikhs dont discriminate between gurbani mantars (Biij Mantar, Parpoobal Mantar, Mool Mantar, Gurmantar)

And who are you to question bhai dya singh ji? If he was given authority to give naaam jugti by dasam patsah himself then who are you to question him?, note i said- Naam Jugti i dont know why you keep saying naam. I said Bhai dya singh ji as i referenced- sooraj parkash granth by bhai kavi singh santokh there is a topic called- atamgyan katha-..bhai dya singh ji gave this atamgyan katha in that katha there is naam jugti along with many spiritual discourages i managed to translate this katha translated by gyani thakur singh ji you will find it here: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry169211

There IS a method for naam. You listed all these methods by various Babas. That’s great, but Guru Sahib clearly gave *A* method for japing naam. It can’t be all of them. In Bhattan Dey Svaiyay we’re told that Gursikhs: ਇਸ੍ਨਾਨੁ ਕਰਹਿ ਪਰਭਾਤਿ ਸੁਧ ਮਨਿ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਜਾ ਬਿਧਿ ਸਹਿਤ ਕਰੰ ॥ This means that with the “method” of “bidh” they do Gur Puja/naam jaap. So the method must exist.

At any rate, I’m not sure who would rather learn naam from some Baba as opposed to the Punj Pyaray. Guru Sahib teaches naam and teaches the method for naam. It’s that simple.

This babey who you seem to have dvaish because they don't follow your jatha rigid thinking. These babey were in panj pyares(guru roop) in amrit sanchars blessed countless jaigaso/ablikhes with naam daat.

Namastang, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: you are the most venomous person I’ve encountered online. You don’t know any of us that go to Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib but you seem to hate us with a passion I’ve not seen anywhere. At any opportunity you begin your tirades on “neo-Sikhs” and “kattarpanthis”.

sometimes knowing someone vichars(either broad or tunnel minded) on the internet is more than enough to safely say what kinda person you are dealing with. If i ever come across with you or kulbir singh , i ll say fateh to you just like how gursikh greets and go my way. After what i have seen your views and debates with you online , i dont see no point in real life.

The fact is that Nanaksar “amrit” (the one I’ve heard of from people who went for it) is stored in bottles and administered to abhilakhis as they come. It is ready-made and just needs to be administered. Is this amrit?

this is totally false, i go to nananksar everyday, talk to panj pyares weekely basis, seen their amrit sanchar, i never ever saw this thing you on about.

You accuse me of not going to tapoban and jumping into conclustions that vidya is not there, yet what you guys seem to be doing spread rumors against nanaksar, oh you heard from someone (how reliable aie).

Atleast when i said tapobanis in neela bana who act like warriors have no vidya of sri dasam granth ..i said after going through your own forum, getting responses like- oh bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji didnt focus on sri dasam bani that much, oh thats why we dont have opnion on sri dasam granth sahib ji... arent you following bhai randhir singh ji instead of sri guru gobind singh ji? whats a difference really between tapobani singh (who thinks they dont opnion of dasam bani just because bhai randhir singh ji didnt spoke about sri dasam granth sahib ji openly ) and over zealous chela of an baba who would follow exactly his teacher foot steps and ignore the context and ignore the bigger picture- panth?

I’d like to ask you though, what do you know about our knowledge of santhiya and viaakaran. I in fact challenge you to come to the Gurdwara and do a discussion on these topics. I dare say that a lot of these “sampardas” don’t have a clue when it comes to correct pronunciation or viaakaran. How do you know that we don’t have knowledge of Shastar Vidya? I challenge you to come find out the truth about that as well. And as for “hijacking” neela bana: is it your personal copyright or any other samparda’s copyright to wear blue bana? It is my father’s bana and when I became a Singh he gave it to me. I challenge you or anyone else to try to make me stop.

I tell you i have absouletly zero, 0 knowledge about santhiya and vaikhyaran and shastar vidya. I admit out of honesty not out of humility. Sampardavas (taksal, nirmale , nihangs) have full knowledge of sri dasam granth, atleast they dont find a way out and say oh bhai randhir singh ji never wrote on dasam granth intensevily that's why we dont have opnion on sri dasam patsah rachna. who is irrational there? and who is hateful?

I don't care if you guys do your own thing, but i must stand up when you guys starting put down others jatha(nanaksar in this case), samparda to prove your supermacy of naam jugti, jatha and claim we are only supreme jatha who can claim khalsa panth real rehit. This defaniately make you guys look like cults.

[Singh132]

There is no reference since this came from budda dal nihang singh. In Budda dal, they usually have oral history traditions taught to them. According to oral history tradition there was event that nihangs have intiated many warriors ready to be khalsa in hazoori sahib of pothi.

So these thousands of Singhs would be living together but they would have no access to a saroop of Guru Granth Sahib, and thus they would do amrit sinchaars with a pothi? And I should believe you because a Nihang told you. Right. Find me any written source.

There is no such thing as 100 percent sarbloh made batta these days, consult with any one who is familiar with this topic, they tell you there is always steel mixed with iron coating outside.

What are you talking about?? Sarbloh isn’t 100% iron, it’s very low carbon steel. So you’re claiming that they do an iron coating? How do they do this iron coating? You’re talking total nonsense. I’ve heard of nickel coating on sarbloh but not sarbloh-coating on steel.

Sachkhand Hazoor Sahib is one of takhts, so as patiala sahib have dasam granth parkash along with sri guru granth sahib parkash in amrit sanchars.

I’ve never heard of “patiala sahib”. I’ve heard of Patiala city but didn’t know it had become a Sahib. But my question remains: if there was no Dasam Granth at the time of Guru Gobind Singh, how or why is it necessary in amrit sinchaars now?

Naam Shabad - Vahiguroo is given according to all takths. However, if we look at samparda's - mahapursh have given - satnam, ikongkar, vahiguroo as naam to different jaigaso by looking at each avastha in form of PANJ PYARES.. Whether you beleive it or not , it's up to you or think its gurmat or not its up to you. All I know samparda sikhs dont discriminate between gurbani mantars (Biij Mantar, Parpoobal Mantar, Mool Mantar, Gurmantar)

And who are you to question bhai dya singh ji? If he was given authority to give naaam jugti by dasam patsah himself then who are you to question him?, note i said- Naam Jugti i dont know why you keep saying naam. I said Bhai dya singh ji as i referenced- sooraj parkash granth by bhai kavi singh santokh there is a topic called- atamgyan katha-..bhai dya singh ji gave this atamgyan katha in that katha there is naam jugti along with many spiritual discourages i managed to translate this katha translated by gyani thakur singh ji you will find it here: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry169211

Where is your source for this? Khalsa’s Gurmantar is ONE. All jagiasoo get the same mantar. What kind of Brahmnical nonsense are you talking about that each person gets a different mantar? Gurmantar is what we take amrit for. This Gurmantar is only ONE. Gurmantar is Naam and is “shabad”.

Who am I to question Bhai Daya Singh? I’m question YOU. You know as well as I do that Sooraj Parkash was written much after the time of Bhai Daya Singh. Gurbani is clear that Naam is given and taught by Satguru. In the present time, no ONE Gursikh can give naam or teach the jugti. It is taught by the Punj Pyaaray in Hazoori of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and at that time they are Guru Roop and have this right. No single Mahant or Saadh can have this power. That’s what we call Gurudoms and Santdoms.

Atleast when i said tapobanis in neela bana who act like warriors have no vidya of sri dasam granth ..i said after going through your own forum, getting responses like- oh bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji didnt focus on sri dasam bani that much, oh thats why we dont have opnion on sri dasam granth sahib ji... arent you following bhai randhir singh ji instead of sri guru gobind singh ji? whats a difference really between tapobani singh (who thinks they dont opnion of dasam bani just because bhai randhir singh ji didnt spoke about sri dasam granth sahib ji openly ) and over zealous chela of an baba who would follow exactly his teacher foot steps and ignore the context and ignore the bigger picture- panth?

This post had nothing to do with Tapoban Sahib. But for some reason (venomous hatred) you keep bringing it up. The bibi who told me this clearly said that she went for Amrit and was told it was ready and needed to be administered only. I’ve heard this before as well. At any rate *I* never made any accusation.

As for Dasam Granth: you’re once again mistaken. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh has quoted from Dasam Granth quite a bit. If one person says he has no opinion (care to back that up with a reference?) that doesn’t apply to everyone that goes to a single Gurdwara. As for acting like “warriors”, I said once before and I’ll say it again, come see for yourself.

At any rate, I can say without a doubt that discussing anything with you is useless. You’re not clean at heart and have so much pent up anger and hatred it is a useless exercise. Go on your way and I’ll go on mine.

[singh70]

What counts is your love/devotion to God.

Not techniques (rituals?) on how to do paath/simran etc

A man can do tuta puja paath/simran - as long he is devoted and loves God - then God will not forsake him.

Bairaag comes when it comes, there is no special one and only technique.

Vaheguru

[KharkooSingh]

What counts is your love/devotion to God.

Not techniques (rituals?) on how to do paath/simran etc

A man can do tuta puja paath/simran - as long he is devoted and loves God - then God will not forsake him.

Bairaag comes when it comes, there is no special one and only technique.

Vaheguru

Very good summary. It's about your prem and sharda but today people seem to forget that. Everyone wants to analyse the next man's Sikhi and think they are better than the next GurSikh.

If you know it’s time to receive the gift of Amrit then get ready. Don’t fall in the trap of analysing the kamai of the Punj Pyaray or the Jathebhandi, it will only hold you back. Guru Maharaj selects the Punj not the jathebhandis. These Punj are blessed with the sewa maybe because of their kamai from this life and previous lives, we should not even question this. All we should be worried about is building our personal relationship with Guru Maharaj.

[TavPrasad Singh]

Why cant we just give Singhs and Singhias the confidence to take Amrit? Giving a ablakhi doubt over an Amrit Sanchaar is PAAP! Who are we to stop a Sikh entering Guruji Panth?

This isnt a favourite brand of clothes or car, that we can tell people about its attributes. Nor are should we reduce Amrit to a shopping bargain where we can get the best package.

This is Amrit and the only brand to be promoted is Khalsa, not a jathebandi.......

Enter the brotherhood, those who doubt whether you have taken the "right kind of Amrit" are showing their backs to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

[Hardeep__singh]

Why cant we just give Singhs and Singhias the confidence to take Amrit? Giving a ablakhi doubt over an Amrit Sanchaar is PAAP! Who are we to stop a Sikh entering Guruji Panth?

This isnt a favourite brand of clothes or car, that we can tell people about its attributes. Nor are should we reduce Amrit to a shopping bargain where we can get the best package.

This is Amrit and the only brand to be promoted is Khalsa, not a jathebandi.......

Enter the brotherhood, those who doubt whether you have taken the "right kind of Amrit" are showing their backs to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

I totally AGREE with! :D

[GuruManeyoGranth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I not getting into the wider debate, although I fully agree with comments of Kharkoo Singh and TavPrasaad Singh. However, I do have this to say:

I'm very surprised about comments of Amrit Sanchaar at "Nanaksar". The Nanaksar I know follows minimum Rehit Maryada of Akaal Takhath Sahib, but on top, gives much stricter Rehit and requests reading of full Baani, like Sampooran Rehiraas - this is certainly the case in respect of in the times of Baba Nand Singh and Baba Isher Singh, and other representatives of Nanaksar alive today.

Singh132 - where did you or Kulbir Singh get the idea about Nanaksar Amrit Sanchaar? Perhaps it was a renegade Baba from Nanaksar?

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguroo

[N30S1NGH]

Gurfateh Singh132,

Just an slight correction, i meant to say patna sahib not patiala sahib. sorry last night was late when i was replying.. it was defaniately a typo.

Will respond back to your post shortly.

[(S Singh)]

I think that it is real blasphemy to say that Dasam Granth should be done Parkash along with Guru Granth Sahib Jee at an Amrit Sinchaar. As Sikhs we all respect Dasam Bani like we respect the Bani of other Gurus and Bhagats, but to give Dasam Granth Guru status when Dasam Patsha himself gave Gurgadi to Damdami bir is just an innovation. Maybe if we think we know more than Guru Gobind Singh Jee about Gurmat, then by all means add all innovations as you please.

Without our Guru, there is no initiation into the order of the Khalsa. Today some are now claiming it is ok to use a pothi, tomorrow someone will say, let us just put a computer with Guru Granth Sahib Jee stored into it and conduct an amrit sanchaar. I’m sorry to say, but it just isn’t an amrit Sanchaar without Guru Jee. And Guru Jee is that which Guru Gobind Singh Jee gave Gurgaddi to. There are no ifs and not buts, it is that simple.