Muslim Misinterpretation

[Dalvir]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Recently, daas had been searching about Sikhi stuff when daas stumbled upon <link-removed>

It's sad to see so much misintretation going on. Furthermore, there was Muslim woman there, who was a Sikh before her conversion to Islam. These were her questions she had. Her misinterpretation is astounding. This is an email message daas sent her to clarify her wrong thinking. If daas has said anything wrong, or should have added anything to this please do tell. Thank you.

P.S: daas wrote the letter in first person, please forgive the haumai. Also, forgive daas for the length.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Dear Bhainji, it is nice to meet you. I came upon your website on your conversion to Islam. It's nice to see you chose a path well suited to you. But, as an Amritdhari Sikh some of the points you made are not quite correct.

>>1) Sikhism doesn't believe in prophethood

since i was a little I asked my mom why did muslims kill our gods? He was god mom why didn't god kill the muslims. My mom's answer was he wanted to show them.. show them what mom? her answer was shut up u ask to many questions! I did further research and found out that this was part of guru's plans if they wanted they could have done magic but did not want to.. sureee okay.

why would god allow mere humans to kill him?

So god can die?

If god can't protect himself how is he gonna help me?

god bleeds like me?<<

Bhainji, there is a mistake here. Firstly, the Guru's were not God(s.) They were messengers, another part of Waheguru but not God. God cannot die, as stated in Mool Mantr: Akaal Moorat (the Eternal Lord.) Moreover, according to Sikhism use of any magical power attained through meditation is only shown through ego; that is if it is used without a proper reason, such as realization to another human being. It appears in this context you are talking about Guru Gobind Singh Ji was wounded. But, according to the teachings of Guru Nanak the use of any of these "occult powers" is wrong. Guru Gobind Singh Ji didn't use his powers because there was no need to. Who would? To save one's life by using powers is wrong. We are not living in the Divine Will of the Sweet Lord if we use them. Guru Arjan Dev Ji, during his tortures always recited the line:

thaeraa keeaa meet(h)aa laagai ||

Your actions seem so sweet to me.

har naam padhaarathh naanak maa(n)gai ||2||42||93||

Nanak begs for the treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||2||42||93||.

In addition, true we can say that the Guru's bled but what relevance does this point out to? Was Prophet Mohammed not human? I could claim that he was more of a Human then the Guru's were. Is it not true that he did not know he was to be a Prophet until his Uncle told him so? The Guru's knew everything. From the birth of Guru Nanak, his parents knew he was different because he never cried not did he act as a usual child does. Moreover, during his childhood he would always sit with his school mates and tell them to meditate on the One Lord. Please, if possible, show me a reference of Prophet Mohammed doing this during his childhood. Also, when Guru Nanak was in school he outsmarted his teacher and upon doing so told his teacher to concentrate more in the rememberance of the One Lord as prayer and meditation on Waheguru (as you may still remember) is the ultimate practice. Likewise, I would just like to say that your last line of:

If God cannot protect himself, how can he protect me?

Well first off, the Guru's told all Sikh's to put their faith in Waheguru as Waheguru is the all doer, not them. To praise Waheguru is the ultimate truth. Thus, your question here is incorrect in the context stated. God will always protect you. Is it not true, that during Prophet Mohammed's time that he needed protection. Who did he seek it from? Personally, I have not once seen or read Prophet Mohammed say that one should seek the sanctuary of the Lord; whereas, the Guru's ALWAYS stated that one should always seek the santurary of the Lord as the Lord is eternal and will ALWAYS help is in any affair we are in.

ਮਨ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਾਜ ਸਵਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

मन गुर मिलि काज सवारे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

man gur mil kaaj savaaray. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Meeting with the Guru, your affairs shall be resolved. ||1||Pause||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji.

Also, one question to you. What does the belief in Prophethood or no Prophethood have to do with anything? Messengers were sent to this earth to preach the truth. But, in reality bhainji, tell me anyone from any faith who actually did so. In Hinduism, Krishan Bhagwaan said to Arjan (his follower) that where there is unrighteousnedd I will Manifest myself. This is a word of ego. As we know, Krishan Bhagwaan did pass away. In Sikhism, Guru Gobind Singh Ji says the Lord is his one true Savior. That he was and will forever be here. Sikhism preaches the truth in here, but Hinduism does not. In Islam, I do not see much truth, Why? Firstly, because Prophet Mohammed did not know he was to be a prophet. Secondly, when the Quran was revealed to him through Angel Gabriel, he told his followers what was said. We know as a fact that Prophet Mohammed was illiterate, thus, and I'm not saying it is true but we cannot deny its possibilty, that anyone of Prophet Mohammed's followers could have changed the text to something else. Moreover, I do not see how marrying more then once; telling your best friend to divorce his wife so he can marry her, and to marry a 9 year old girl while at the age of 50 is appropriate. Personally, some things Prophet Mohammed has done, appears to be done through ego rather then spreading of the Message of God (sorry if I have caused any offence.)

>>Then some say they were sent down from the akal purath to show the way they had a part of god in them. Fiar enough but first off thats wrong guru granth says that it denounces prophethood. Secondly if only a part of god is with them then why do we worship his creation why not worship the almighty himself. Thats like saying imma go worship my mom. Don't even deny it you know ur parents are sure enough to have pictures of guru Nanak and guru gobind singh ji somewhere in the house. And u know ur parents fold their hand and pray to them.

When i use to read Nitnama Bani, I use to read passages which said I seek protection under guru gobind singh ji's sword. Guru Gobind singh ji died, if he couldn't protect himself with his own sword i don't think that sword is gonna do much for me or anybody else.<<

Bhainji, daas believes you have become mistaken here.

Firstly, it's Akal Purakh not Akal Purath. Secondly, please show me where in Guru Granth Sahib does it say we denounce Prophethood?

Moreover, Honestly, I do not understand what you are saying in most of your passage, could you be more clear?.

But, in the last lines; of praying and folding hands to pictures of the Guru Sahibaan that is totally wrong and is not a belief of Sikhism. A True Sikh would NEVER pray to a picture as the Guru's told us that pictures contain nothing, we should pray and meditate on Waheguru as that will give us everything.

>>2) Sikhism is confused about believing in one god

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was the one who said ik onkar (there is 1 god). But Asking my parents and varoius Baba's at the gudwara and even discovering it myself. that in fact Ik onkar means all the guru's are one. Maybe Guru Nanak did mean there is one god but afterwards something happened along the way?<<

I don't know what Baba's you were talking about but Ik Onkar has ONLY EVER meant that there is One God. The human Guru's were 10 in number (11 being Guru Granth Sahib) but this is no way means that Ik Onkar means the 11 Guru's are One. Onkar means God, Ik means one. Thus, Guru ji says there is ONE God.

>>3) Guru Nanak was a muslim!!

Guru Nanak's chola which is kept by a chosen Gursikh family has in arabic the words written on it La illa ilallah muhhamdur rusool allah. It is said he gave it to his followers. There are pictures of it on the internet if you think I am lying. He went to mecca medina which everybody knows.<<

Bhainji, I think you should have done a little bit more research on Sikhism and the Chola belonging to Guru Nanak Dev Ji. That Chola was given to Guru Nanak on his trip to Baghdad. He had a religious discussion with some Muslims of the area. The Muslims, after hearing Guru Nanak's preaching, came to accept them. When Guru Nanak was going to leave, they gave that Chola to Guru Nanak Dev Ji as a parting Gift. This is NO way means he was a Muslim. Personally, I wear a sweater that says Mecca on it, does that make me a Muslim? No, it does not and thus just because there are some Arabic verses on that Chola, it does not make Guru Nanak Dev Ji a Muslim.

>>If u are a muslim u very well know no non-muslims are aloud there. It's strictly for believers only. There is story which says Guru Nanak was sleeping with his feet towards the Kabbah when he arrived at mecca and a man asked him to move his feet. when the man would turn the feet of Guru Nanak his feet would go back in the same place facing the Kabbah. And supposably the man was shocked and thought Guru Nanak was a saint.

This story cann't make sense at all!!

First off If that were true and Nanak had his feet in the direction of the kabbah they would have killed him no questions asked. Its tottal disrespect, and besides why would he come all that way to do hajj and then disrespect it like that. It just makes no sense.

Mecca is an extremly religious place u can't just expect to do that and nothing happen to you. If guru Nanak thought the Kabbah was nothing then he would not have made the trouble to do pilgrimage there. If he claims there is no hindu no muslims why did he go perform hajj.

When you perform Hajj your very lucky if you get some string from the Kabbah which he did and those very strings are in a gudwara in India. I've seen them for myself.<<

Bhainji, again you are mistaken. True, Guru Nanak went to Mecca, but NOT for a Hajj. I've heard this so many times from so many Muslims that Guru ji went for a Hajj. Please, understand that he DID NOT go for a Hajj; Guru ji went to awaken the dorment people. To tell them that God is NOT in one direction but is ALL directions. Don't you see, by saying God is only in the West, you are confining God to one place, thus making God Limited in size. God is everywhere and always has been.

Secondly, yes Guru Nanak went to Mecca. How did he get in? Well, upon arriving to Mecca he was asked if he was a Believer, and Guru ji said he was a Believer in the Almighty. The man who asked him this question asked no more as his question was fulfilled. You say that Mecca is for believers tell me, am I not a Believer? I believe in God so why aren't I allowed to go to Mecca. As you may know, Harmander Sahib is open to ALL faiths whether you are Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, and so on. I find this incorrect and personally this does not seem like something God would do. I am a creation of God, why would God prefer someone else of his creation over another; let alone an entire faith over so many more. Makes God seems picky.

Moreover, what does getting a String from the Kabbah have to do with Guru Nanak? It's string.

>>4) Guru Amar Das changed things

Its believed by many that he changed alot of guru Nanaks writings around and or added his own thing in.<<

Again, provide relevant sources for this claim. All Guru's lived according to Guru Nanak's teachings as his teachings came from Waheguru.

>>5) Why is it all the sikh gods died?<<

Again, they are NOT God's, but Guru's. Did Prophet Mohammed not die? Your question is not relevant.

>>6) Sikhism and Hinduism very alike<<

True, but what does this have to do with anything? All religions are alike. What are you trying to get at?

>>For those who do not already know the geeta has very digusting things in it, hindu's don't like to admit it but Kama sutra is considered religious text. Hindu's are idol worshipers. There are stories of their gods jerking off we dont need to get into detail. Guru Granth praises the Hindu gods, talks about them.<<

Bhainji, the Guru's NEVER praised any Hindu God's. I don't know where you got this information from. Please provide reasonable evidence for this claim.

>>Why is this that the guru granth can even have these idol gods and perverted gods in a sikh book. There are passages that talk about hinduism and thier gods and their worships basically not denoucing it saying it too is a way of worship<<

Never have the Guru's said that what Hinduism believes in is a way of worship. The Guru's all said that praying to stone figures, idols, etc is in no way a communion with God or a connection with the Almighty. Again, please provide evidence for this claim.

>>Also my mom told me That there was this hindu god I dunno her name she had a small mandir and there was a big gudwara next to it, she said to one of the guru's. Ur temple is so big nobody will come to my mandir it is so small. From that day forth guru said to her from now on for those who come to worship at this temple have to first go to the mandir and pray there.<<

I don't know where you got this information from, as I have never heard such a thing. Please provide accurate evidence for this claim as well. Also, don't say things you're not sure of. It may offend others.

>>Sikhs in india actually do that today and even have this godesses picture in thier house its the one with the multiple arms.<<

If someone claiming to be a Muslim was to never did his prayer, can you call them a Muslim? No. In this same way, there are many people who claim to be Sikhs, but in actuality they don't know the slightest thing about Sikhism. So can you really call them Sikhs?

>>7) Sikhs believe all religons is a way to god

If this is so then why were the guru's so against islam. I mean wasn't it them wou said follow whatever they are all the path to god? Then why is it that sikhs don't allow to cut hair and eat meat and others fiaths allow it but they still can go to god? Hmm i dunno sounds like somebody got confused.<<

Bhainji, yes according to Sikhism all faiths lead to God. Eating Meat? Cutting Hair? We all are a part of different faiths will different beliefs. Islam says Jesus was never crucified, yet Christians say he was. Sikhs believe Cutting Hair is wrong as it is a divine Gift from God to us. Secondly, not only was it a gift but our Guru's told us to never but our hair and thus we follow their teachings. I am an insignificant worm compared to the Guru's, so I do not question their teachings.

>>8) Behavior at Amritsar

Amritsar is the holliest sikh place. Why would god allow it to be attacked the way it was have women being gang-raped. Children killed men murdered. The Guru granth urinated on and set on fire? Also i have heard this from so many sikh ladies when they go to amritsar men will walk by and grab their private parts walk away as though nothing happened. This is suppose to be a holly place and this kind of stuff happens i feel more safer in my house. Its sickening that men will do this, I cannot understand why god would allow this to happen? Sexuall assult at a holy sikh temple ... DISGUSTING<<

I don't know where you got this information from. There was never and has never been any sexual assaults on women in Harmander Sahib. Please provide relevant sources for this claim. Secondly, as for the attack on Harmander Sahib. We should make one thing clear here, Guru Gobind Singh Ji made the Khalsa and he says that if the Khalsa follows the way of corruption then he will not be there to help them. As we see throughout Sikh History, there are many instances where the Khalsa was outnumbered against the Muslims and yet always won, that's because they ONLY believed in God and the Guru, nothing else. Now-a-days, there are many so called "Sikhs" yet none of them are true. Thus, with this is mind, the attack at Harmander Sahib would have been prevented and Guru ji would have helped (he did with the Singhs fighting) but as most of the people were not true Sikhs, the Harmander Sahib was attacked, Guru Ji's saroop was urinated on and burnt and other atrocites committed.

>> 9)Guru's lies

The guru's say that all religons lead to the path of god. If this is so why is it if your not amrit shak (baptized sikh) and did not lead a good life you don't go to heaven, in fact you are re-incarnated and this is an ongoing cycle until u become amrit shak and lead a good life!! So whats with the contradictions. No religon is perfect if so thing contradict with other then they are not the words of god.<<

Bhainji, this only applies to a Sikh. Please, don't get mixed up. A Sikh's belief is a Sikh's belief, not a Muslims or a Christians. The first rehat for a Sikh is to take Amrit:

prathham rehith yehi jaan kha(n)ddae kee paahul shhakae ||asoee si(n)gh pradhhaan avar n paahul jo leae ||

To drink the Ambrosial Nectar of the Khanda (Amrit) is the primary instruction for the Sikh. He who abandons all other initiations is truly a great Sikh.

Thus, this only applies to a Sikh.

But, this is different for a Muslim as a Muslim believes anyone who doesn't believe in Islam will go to Hell and suffer. Now is this fair? Is it fair to you knowing that your parents who raised you as you were growing up will now go to Hell just because they were not Muslims? I think not!

>>I just want to say to all the sikhs out there that U cannot be mad at the muslims for what happened all those years ago. The ones that are to blame are those mongols who commited the crime. Allah will punish them for what they have done.<<

Bhainji, we are not and have NEVER been mad at all Muslims, just the one's who have done wrong to us we are mad at. That is all.

I hope I have helped you gain a little bit more insight into Sikhism. Forgive me if I have said/done anything wrong. I wrote this just to clear up those misconceptions you had/have. Until next time, take care.

- daas

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Revolutionary]

Old news... please dont show links ot the site.. just helps increase its ratings..

By the way, this stry has been used many times now

[Dalvir]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

maaf kardo ji for any gultee made.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[UKGupt Kaur]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

maaf kardo ji for any gultee made.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Like "Guru Ji's Sipahi" has already said, kindly please remove the link - ie edit your post to remove the link in your post.

Or the Moderator should at least be deleting the link please.

[Bijla Singh]

Nice response but:

1) Sikhs have only one Guru and there is no difference between Shabad Guru and Waheguru. Both are the same.

2) Sikhi is the only way to Sachkhand. All other religions fall short. Guru Rakha

[Bundha]

Dalvir Ji,

You did good, you answered her questions in a cool and collected manner. It is very difficult to keep ones cool when you get such idiotic questions that repeated timeand time again. Where ever we find such misinfo we must rebutt it.

Please visit my little site that also has a section on misepresentation and misinformation www.info-sikh.com

[N30S1NGH]

Nice response but:

1) Sikhs have only one Guru and there is no difference between Shabad Guru and Waheguru. Both are the same.

2) Sikhi is the only way to Sachkhand. All other religions fall short. Guru Rakha

1. To say Shabad Guru and Nirgun Parbhram Vahiguroo are same is direct contradiction to teachings of sri guru granth sahib and more specific - direct contradiction to sri guru gobind singh ji - jaap sahib composition in which Guru sahib clearly says:

nam tham na jati jakar roop rung na raikh

adi purkh odhar moorat ajoni adi asaikh

dais aur na bhais jakar roop raikh na rag

jatar tatar disa visa hoeh phailio anurag. (80)

O Lord, You have no one Name, no one dwelling place, no caste, no shape or color or any signs. You are the Source of all and present in each one. You are Gracious and Benign. You do not take birth, You are the Primal Being, All Perfection (no defect).

You belong to no country and wear no dress. You have no shape or any mark. You pervade as Love in all directions everywhere. (80)

However, to say shabad guru and sargun saroop of Vahiguroo are same is quite alright, does not contradicts any gurmat teachings.

2. a) Sachkhand in Islam: As i discussed this already in thread "Sikhism is only true religion". Let me re-phrase what i quoted from sufism islam which proves sachkhand else where besides sikhi.. different name for it sure, but same higher reality !!!!!!!!!

Here is the glimpse in Islam level of spirituality..Muslim holy saints divide the whole ascent into seven valleys-

1. Valley of Search(Wadde-a-Tallash)

2. Valley of Love (Wadee-a-Ishaq)

3. Valley of Knowledge (Wadeea-Marfat)

4. Valley of meditation or Ibadat (Wadee-a-Mehveat)

5. Valley of Unity (Wadee-Wehdeeat)

6. Valley of Bliss (Wadee-a-Noor or Wadee-a-Hairam)

7. Valley of merger in God or Allah (Wadee-A-Finah-Fillah)

In Japuji Sahib five khands (Realms) have been described also on this subject. Those are 1. Dharam Khand (Realm of Righteousness) 2. Gian Khand (Realm Of Knowledge) 3. Saram Khand (Realm of Spiritual effort). 4. Karam Khand (Realm of Grace) 5. Sachkhand (realm of truth). Those valley or realms means samething its just they are name differently just like one god known as vahiguroo, allah, ishvar, ram and many countless names...!

So stages or valleys to get to God also exist in Islam. It's a pitty that people are letting fanatics to put veil on them regarding Islam.

b) Sachkhand in Hindu Orders is known as - Turiya Avastha beyond four states/panj koshas. Vedant talks in detail about such states, Gurbani with out any "discrimation" also mentions this state many times as higher reality.

Levels to higher reality- 1. Jagrath Avastha(Wake State) 2. Supan Avastha (Dream State) 3. Sukhopat Avastha (Dreamless state) 4. Turiya Avastha- State of higher Conscisouness. Similarily higher reality(realizing atma) within body by rising above 5 koshas- 1. Anmay Kosh 2. Pran Mai Kosh, 3. Man Mai Kosh. 4. Vigyan Mein Kosh. 5 Anand Mai Kosh. Beyond all these sheats(veils) in the body, one finds - true self- atma source of paratma.

The first avastha is when the mind is interacting with sensory information, the second when the senses are generally less active, but the mind is still projecting images and experience in sleep, and the third is dreamless sleep, when the mind is not active but is really more akin to non-consciousness. Turiya is beyond the three and one of pure consciousness. Note that for vedantins Om itself is composed of these three states of consciousness.

For detailed understanding of this get hold of Mandukya Upanishad with Gaudapad's Karikas

Last but not least, only ignorant ones who lack knowledge about other spiritual orders of different dharams, and one who have "false pride" will make a comment that sikhi is only way to get to higher reality(Sachkhand). Sikh easier way to sachkhand = Sure but not the "only way".

[killah]

Those so called women converts to islam on those websites from sikh background are made up, remember the muslims will use deception to trick and give the perception that alot of people are converting to islam when reality is more educated freedom loving muslims are leaving islam in their droves but do not "come out" for the fact that apostating from Islam would be punishable by death. If you analyse what these so called "reverts" say it always contradictory towards Sikhism showing they do not have knowledge of Sikhism even the average punjabi girl who isnt into religion knows the fundamentals, which these so called "reverts" dont know. The muslims often boast that Islam is fastest growing religion in the world, yeah maybe in birth rate terms but in no way in the number of converts, who are very few in number. If you breed like rats you will have a rat like population lol.

When you read about stories about so called sikh converts on islamic sites think of this word "al Taqqiyaa". Thats all you need to know :D

[sant mat]

>>8) Behavior at Amritsar

Amritsar is the holliest sikh place. Why would god allow it to be attacked the way it was have women being gang-raped. Children killed men murdered. The Guru granth urinated on and set on fire? Also i have heard this from so many sikh ladies when they go to amritsar men will walk by and grab their private parts walk away as though nothing happened. This is suppose to be a holly place and this kind of stuff happens i feel more safer in my house. Its sickening that men will do this, I cannot understand why god would allow this to happen? Sexuall assult at a holy sikh temple ... DISGUSTING<<

That probably does happen in Darbar Sahib, but thats because muslims are allowed there!!! Its them K U N J A R that do these things and the saleh BAHMAN

[Bundha]

<<<< Sikhs believe all religons is a way to god. >> << Bhainji, yes according to Sikhism all faiths lead to God. >>>>>

I would just like to pick up on one very important point.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji again and again lambasts the kathabs and purans and says they are false and the true path cannot be found through them.

Bhai Gurdas Ji states quite clearly : "the Guru has created the mighty Gurmukh panth. This panth keeps itself away from the boundaries of the Vedas and the Semitic scriptures..." (Bhai Gurdas, 23.19)

In Amrit Swayia, in the first pauri Guru Gobind Singh Ji says "I have seen the faiths of all this land and not one is worth even a single ratthi (farthing)"

Guru Ji says "Ram, Raheam, Puran, Quran, anikh kehe math ekh NA manio" all rams, raheams purans qurans I beleive in none of them.

Clearly Sikh dharam does not believe in any other faith, it rejects every one, only the path of the Gurmukh is true. Sure, other paths may lead you to a certain level of spirituality, but they are very long routes, but NONE leads you to mukhti or liberation except Sikhi. We need to be solid upon this as time and again people pick up this point that " if Sikhs beleive in all faiths lead to God then why become a sikh?"

SANT MAT,

These things probably happen any where you go in the world, because you get all manner of people visiting holy places, but we don't need to admit this as this is not uniquely a Sikh problem.

The question can be thrown back at the sullays, why is it that every year hundreds if not thousands of hajj'es get suffocated or trampled on when they go to their holiest of holies, this happens every year?

These people are the worst culprits when it comes to attrocities, just take a look at that 16 year old girl in Iran who was hanged a few years ago for having a liason with an older man, the man got off scott free and she was hanged. Or what about that man in Pakistan who it is obvious to anyone with two brain cells did not kill a taxi driver when he first visited the country at 18 years old and now he is on death row due to sharia law.