Hell?

[Singh With Dunalli]

Hell would be this world, and heaven is also this world. Just like my hommie Papi said, its' whatever you make it. Remember, this is not where we belong though, we are only temporary visitors to Dharti Maa, we belong in Sachkand and that is only decided by Akal Purakh if we go there or not, for now let's jaap naam, kirat karna, and vand ke chakna, and be tyar pay tyar. :D

[davindervirk]

what is NARAK?

[Bundha]

Narak/swarag is a real as the earth we walk on.

Bhai Gurdas Ji //.

King Janak was a great saint who amidst maya remained indifferent to it.

Along with gans and gandharvs (calestial musicians) he went to the abode of the gods.

From there, he, hearing the cries of inhabitants of hell, went to them.

He asked the god of death, Dharamrai, to relieve all their suffering.

Hearing this, the god of death told him he was a mere servant of the eternal Lord (and without His orders he could not liberate them).

Janak offered a part of his devotion and remembrance of the name of the Lord.

All the sins of hell were found not equal even to the counterweight of balance.

In fact no balance can weigh the fruits of recitation and remembrance of the Lords name by the gurmukh.

All the creatures got liberated from hell and the noose of death was cut. Liberation and the technique of attaining it are the servants of the name of the Lord.

You may say that his is just a story or a myth, but gurbani does not deal with legends and myths, it deals with reality, now that reality may not be what we see but we are very low in our spirituality and cannot possibly inderstand all that is going on around us.

Also Guru Arjun Dev Ji says :

Raag Gauree Maalwaa, Fifth Mehla:

Do seva, selfless service, for the Holy Saints, and the noose of Death shall be cut away. ||1||

You may make burnt offerings, sacrificial feasts and pilgrimages to sacred shrines in egotism, but your corruption only increases.

You are subject to both heaven and hell, and you are reincarnated over and over again. ||2||

The realm of Shiva, the realms of Brahma and Indra as well - no place anywhere is permanent.

Without serving the Lord, there is no peace at all. The faithless cynic comes and goes in reincarnation. ||3||

[One Man Army]

as far as i know, narak is the journey to judgement. dharam rai's court. read bhai rama singh jis book 4 info. that is hell. hell is the journey we walk onto to our next destination after life. some elder singhs tell me that Guru Sahib pulls out the gurmukhs from hell by their kesh. people get tortured according to the panj chor... read the book!

[Akali Nihang]

Some claim their is a hell some claim they isnt .... by rama singh had darshan of hell and other gursikhs have claimed to have aswell.

From my knoweldge hell is considered as like a plain for punishment depending on the evil actions commited by one on earth. Apprently Jamdhoots also do exist, once your avastha is high enuf u can actually see the jamdhoots or other people who are near to time of death can also see them.

Find some Jeevenwale Gursikhs who have created a jeeven and have actually expereinced other worlds and have darshan of shaheed singhs and guru ji on a regular basis.

I am not saying their is a hell or their is not as one has limited knowledge

but their has been paranormal experiences in all countries, from ancient history to present. which have still not been able to find the bottom of.

[randip singh]

no its not. this is only hell if you make it so :D

Spot on.

[randip singh]

Here are some examples of a description of hell in th Sikh context from Bani:

Page 220

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥

गउड़ी महला ९ ॥

ga-orhee mehlaa 9.

Gauree, Ninth Mehl:

ਸਾਧੋ ਰਾਮ ਸਰਨਿ ਬਿਸਰਾਮਾ ॥

साधो राम सरनि बिसरामा ॥

saaDho raam saran bisraamaa.

Holy Saadhus: rest and peace are in the Sanctuary of the Lord.

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਪੜੇ ਕੋ ਇਹ ਗੁਨ ਸਿਮਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

बेद पुरान पड़े को इह गुन सिमरे हरि को नामा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

bayd puraan parhay ko ih gun simray har ko naamaa. ||1|| rahaa-o.

This is the blessing of studying the Vedas and the Puraanas, that you may meditate on the Name of the Lord. ||1||Pause||

ਲੋਭ ਮੋਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਮਤਾ ਫੁਨਿ ਅਉ ਬਿਖਿਅਨ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ॥

लोभ मोह माइआ ममता फुनि अउ बिखिअन की सेवा ॥

lobh moh maa-i-aa mamtaa fun a-o bikhi-an kee sayvaa.

Greed, emotional attachment to Maya, possessiveness, the service of evil,

ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਪਰਸੈ ਜਿਹ ਨਾਹਨਿ ਸੋ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਹੈ ਦੇਵਾ ॥੧॥

हरख सोग परसै जिह नाहनि सो मूरति है देवा ॥१॥

harakh sog parsai jih naahan so moorat hai dayvaa. ||1||

pleasure and pain - those who are not touched by these, are the very embodiment of the Divine Lord. ||1||

ਸੁਰਗ ਨਰਕ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਿਖੁ ਏ ਸਭ ਤਿਉ ਕੰਚਨ ਅਰੁ ਪੈਸਾ ॥

सुरग नरक अम्रित बिखु ए सभ तिउ कंचन अरु पैसा ॥

surag narak amrit bikh ay sabh ti-o kanchan ar paisaa.

Heaven and hell, ambrosial nectar and poison, gold and copper - these are all alike to them.

ਉਸਤਤਿ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਏ ਸਮ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਫੁਨਿ ਤੈਸਾ ॥੨॥

उसतति निंदा ए सम जा कै लोभु मोहु फुनि तैसा ॥२॥

ustat nindaa ay sam jaa kai lobh moh fun taisaa. ||2||

Praise and slander are all the same to them, as are greed and attachment. ||2||

ਦੁਖੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਏ ਬਾਧੇ ਜਿਹ ਨਾਹਨਿ ਤਿਹ ਤੁਮ ਜਾਨਉ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

दुखु सुखु ए बाधे जिह नाहनि तिह तुम जानउ गिआनी ॥

dukh sukh ay baaDhay jih naahan tih tum jaan-o gi-aanee.

They are not bound by pleasure and pain - know that they are truly wise.

ਨਾਨਕ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਤੁਮ ਮਾਨਉ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ॥੩॥੭॥

नानक मुकति ताहि तुम मानउ इह बिधि को जो प्रानी ॥३॥७॥

naanak mukat taahi tum maan-o ih biDh ko jo paraanee. ||3||7||

O Nanak, recognize those mortal beings as liberated, who live this way of life. ||3||7||

Here is an example that dwelling in heaven and hell is here and now....a Sikh craves neither:

Page 297

ਪਉੜੀ ॥

पउड़ी ॥

pa-orhee.

Pauree:

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਆ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਬਿਖੈ ਫਲ ਕਬ ਉਤਮ ਕਬ ਨੀਚੁ ॥

त्रितीआ त्रै गुण बिखै फल कब उतम कब नीचु ॥

taritee-aa tarai gun bikhai fal kab utam kab neech.

The third day of the lunar cycle: Those who are bound by the three qualities gather poison as their fruit; now they are good, and now they are bad.

ਨਰਕ ਸੁਰਗ ਭ੍ਰਮਤਉ ਘਣੋ ਸਦਾ ਸੰਘਾਰੈ ਮੀਚੁ ॥

नरक सुरग भ्रमतउ घणो सदा संघारै मीचु ॥

narak surag bharamta-o ghano sadaa sanghaarai meech.

They wander endlessly in heaven and hell, until death annihilates them.

ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਸਹਸਾ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਹਉ ਹਉ ਕਰਤ ਬਿਹਾਇ ॥

हरख सोग सहसा संसारु हउ हउ करत बिहाइ ॥

harakh sog sahsaa sansaar ha-o ha-o karat bihaa-ay.

In pleasure and pain and worldly cynicism, they pass their lives acting in ego.

ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਏ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਣਨੀ ਚਿਤਵਹਿ ਅਨਿਕ ਉਪਾਇ ॥

जिनि कीए तिसहि न जाणनी चितवहि अनिक उपाइ ॥

jin kee-ay tiseh na jaannee chitvahi anik upaa-ay.

They do not know the One who created them; they think up all sorts of schemes and plans.

ਆਧਿ ਬਿਆਧਿ ਉਪਾਧਿ ਰਸ ਕਬਹੁ ਨ ਤੂਟੈ ਤਾਪ ॥

आधि बिआधि उपाधि रस कबहु न तूटै ताप ॥

aaDh bi-aaDh upaaDh ras kabahu na tootai taap.

Their minds and bodies are distracted by pleasure and pain, and their fever never departs.

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪੂਰਨ ਧਨੀ ਨਹ ਬੂਝੈ ਪਰਤਾਪ ॥

पारब्रहम पूरन धनी नह बूझै परताप ॥

paarbarahm pooran Dhanee nah boojhai partaap.

They do not realize the glorious radiance of the Supreme Lord God, the Perfect Lord and Master.

ਮੋਹ ਭਰਮ ਬੂਡਤ ਘਣੋ ਮਹਾ ਨਰਕ ਮਹਿ ਵਾਸ ॥

मोह भरम बूडत घणो महा नरक महि वास ॥

moh bharam boodat ghano mahaa narak meh vaas.

So many are being drowned in emotional attachment and doubt; they dwell in the most horrible hell.

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਰਾਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਸ ॥੩॥

करि किरपा प्रभ राखि लेहु नानक तेरी आस ॥३॥

kar kirpaa parabh raakh layho naanak tayree aas. ||3||

Please bless me with Your Mercy, God, and save me! Nanak places his hopes in You. ||3||

The fact that Guruji describes heaven and hell as the following:

narak surag bharamta-o ghano sadaa sanghaarai meech.

They wander endlessly in heaven and hell, until death annihilates them.

The fact death liberates one from heaven or hell according to Bani show clearly it is not some celestial place or a place for immortality.

The line:

ਮੋਹ ਭਰਮ ਬੂਡਤ ਘਣੋ ਮਹਾ ਨਰਕ ਮਹਿ ਵਾਸ ॥

मोह भरम बूडत घणो महा नरक महि वास ॥

moh bharam boodat ghano mahaa narak meh vaas.

So many are being drowned in emotional attachment and doubt; they dwell in the most horrible hell.

Clearly demonstrates those who live in the five theive dwell in hell.....in this case Moh.

Page 337:

ਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ ॥

गउड़ी पूरबी ॥

ga-orhee poorbee.

Gauree Poorbee:

ਸੁਰਗ ਬਾਸੁ ਨ ਬਾਛੀਐ ਡਰੀਐ ਨ ਨਰਕਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥

सुरग बासु न बाछीऐ डरीऐ न नरकि निवासु ॥

surag baas na baachhee-ai daree-ai na narak nivaas.

Don't wish for a home in heaven, and don't be afraid to live in hell.

ਹੋਨਾ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਮਨਹਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ਆਸ ॥੧॥

होना है सो होई है मनहि न कीजै आस ॥१॥

honaa hai so ho-ee hai maneh na keejai aas. ||1||

Whatever will be will be, so don't get your hopes up in your mind. ||1||

ਰਮਈਆ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਈਐ ॥

रमईआ गुन गाईऐ ॥

rama-ee-aa gun gaa-ee-ai.

Sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord,

ਜਾ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਪਰਮ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

जा ते पाईऐ परम निधानु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

jaa tay paa-ee-ai param niDhaan. ||1|| rahaa-o.

from whom the most excellent treasure is obtained. ||1||Pause||

ਕਿਆ ਜਪੁ ਕਿਆ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੋ ਕਿਆ ਬਰਤੁ ਕਿਆ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ॥

किआ जपु किआ तपु संजमो किआ बरतु किआ इसनानु ॥

ki-aa jap ki-aa tap sanjamo ki-aa barat ki-aa isnaan.

What good is chanting, penance or self-mortification? What good is fasting or cleansing baths,

ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਨੀਐ ਭਾਉ ਭਗਤਿ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੨॥

जब लगु जुगति न जानीऐ भाउ भगति भगवान ॥२॥

jab lag jugat na jaanee-ai bhaa-o bhagat bhagvaan. ||2||

unless you know the way to worship the Lord God with loving devotion? ||2||

ਸੰਪੈ ਦੇਖਿ ਨ ਹਰਖੀਐ ਬਿਪਤਿ ਦੇਖਿ ਨ ਰੋਇ ॥

स्मपै देखि न हरखीऐ बिपति देखि न रोइ ॥

sampai daykh na harkhee-ai bipat daykh na ro-ay.

Don't feel so delighted at the sight of wealth, and don't weep at the sight of suffering and adversity.

ਜਿਉ ਸੰਪੈ ਤਿਉ ਬਿਪਤਿ ਹੈ ਬਿਧ ਨੇ ਰਚਿਆ ਸੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੩॥

जिउ स्मपै तिउ बिपति है बिध ने रचिआ सो होइ ॥३॥

ji-o sampai ti-o bipat hai biDh nay rachi-aa so ho-ay. ||3||

As is wealth, so is adversity; whatever the Lord proposes, comes to pass. ||3||

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਅਬ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਸੰਤਨ ਰਿਦੈ ਮਝਾਰਿ ॥

कहि कबीर अब जानिआ संतन रिदै मझारि ॥

kahi kabeer ab jaani-aa santan ridai majhaar.

Says Kabeer, now I know that the Lord dwells within the hearts of His Saints;

ਸੇਵਕ ਸੋ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਲੇ ਜਿਹ ਘਟ ਬਸੈ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੨॥੬੩॥

सेवक सो सेवा भले जिह घट बसै मुरारि ॥४॥१॥१२॥६३॥

sayvak so sayvaa bhalay jih ghat basai muraar. ||4||1||12||63||

that servant performs the best service, whose heart is filled with the Lord. ||4||1||12||63||

So a Sikh should not wish to live in heaven or be affraid of hell.

In other words....don't crave to be some sort of Super Saint......and also don't be affraid to confront the 5 thieves.

The Sikh concept of heaven of hell is incredibly profound and has nothing to do with Hindu or Semetic concepts............something that Sant Maat groups try and advocate. Don't be fooled by that.

[Bundha]

Sugar is normally something we associate with sweetness, it can be touched and we can put it in our mouths and taste the sweetness, sweetness has a physical side to it. Also we can say that success is sweet or victory is sweet, here there is no physicality to it, it is a concept of sweetness. In the same way YES gurbani tells us that living without Akaal IS like hell, YES always remembering His name IS like living in Heaven and what you make of this life IS heaven or hell, but it does not stop there, there is also a physical side to it, the two exist together without contradicting each other. When you pass away there is also a physical heaven and hell.

The Khands are described by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Japji sahib and ultimately there is Sachkhand where AkaalPurkh resides. These Khands are real, just as Maat Loke is, where we are.

Now, some may say that how can God be in Satchkhand when He is everywhere, but both are true. Guru Gobind Singh Ji says “anake hey, fir ekh hey” – He is infinite in His forms and yet He is One. There is no contradiction here, the two concepts sit side by side. This is similar to heaven/hell. They are concepts of a state of mind, but that does not mean that there cannot be a physical heaven/hell. Bhai Gurdas Ji clearly states how Raja Janak Ji heard the cries of the poor souls and in the end got them released. We can all produce copious shabads where heaven/hell is used as states of our surroundings but also copious shabads can be reproduced where they talk about Jhamdhoots, Dhramraja and the punishment meted out to those who lived without God. It is all matter of who has reached a certain level of Gian.

In a shabad Guru ji says “Raj naa chaoo, mukhat naa chaoo, man phittar charan kamalay” Here Guru Ji is saying “I do not want Raj, I do not want salvation , I just want to be at your lotus feet” But in other sabads Guru Ji states that we are looking for salvation form the cycle of life and death. Again those who do not have Gian will say how can this be, but the two sit side by side, where one is written in Karam Gian and seeks to be liberated from the endless births/deaths and the other written on Bhram Gian where there is total Love for Akaal and all that is required is to be with the Lord, Raj does not matter even liberation does not matter.

Gauree, Fifth Mehla:

One whose mind does not embrace love for the Naam

shall go to hell, even though he may perform millions of ceremonial rituals. ||5||

One whose mind does not contemplate the Name of the Lord

is bound like a thief, in the City of Death. ||6||

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

The Weather must be nice, think about it 24hrs of heat. You guys could work on your tans. On the other hand all the Beadbi going on may be too much for some!! Where are those R4G guys when you need them? :D I've got my shades make sure you pack yours, UV light and all that very bad.

[randip singh]

The Weather must be nice, think about it 24hrs of heat. You guys could work on your tans. On the other hand all the Beadbi going on may be too much for some!! Where are those R4G guys when you need them? :D I've got my shades make sure you pack yours, UV light and all that very bad.

What on Earth are you talking about?

Anyway...back to the topic....to reafirm Guruji view that living in the 5 theives is hell:

Page 466

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥

सलोक मः १ ॥

salok mehlaa 1.

Shalok, First Mehl:

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਇਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਗਇਆ ॥

हउ विचि आइआ हउ विचि गइआ ॥

ha-o vich aa-i-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa.

In ego they come, and in ego they go.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੰਮਿਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਮੁਆ ॥

हउ विचि जमिआ हउ विचि मुआ ॥

ha-o vich jammi-aa ha-o vich mu-aa.

In ego they are born, and in ego they die.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਦਿਤਾ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਲਇਆ ॥

हउ विचि दिता हउ विचि लइआ ॥

ha-o vich ditaa ha-o vich la-i-aa.

In ego they give, and in ego they take.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਖਟਿਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਗਇਆ ॥

हउ विचि खटिआ हउ विचि गइआ ॥

ha-o vich khati-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa.

In ego they earn, and in ego they lose.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ਕੂੜਿਆਰੁ ॥

हउ विचि सचिआरु कूड़िआरु ॥

ha-o vich sachiaar koorhi-aar.

In ego they become truthful or false.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

हउ विचि पाप पुंन वीचारु ॥

ha-o vich paap punn veechaar.

In ego they reflect on virtue and sin.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਅਵਤਾਰੁ ॥

हउ विचि नरकि सुरगि अवतारु ॥

ha-o vich narak surag avtaar.

In ego they go to heaven or hell.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਹਸੈ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਰੋਵੈ ॥

हउ विचि हसै हउ विचि रोवै ॥

ha-o vich hasai ha-o vich rovai.

In ego they laugh, and in ego they weep.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਭਰੀਐ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਧੋਵੈ ॥

हउ विचि भरीऐ हउ विचि धोवै ॥

ha-o vich bharee-ai ha-o vich Dhovai.

In ego they become dirty, and in ego they are washed clean.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਤੀ ਜਿਨਸੀ ਖੋਵੈ ॥

हउ विचि जाती जिनसी खोवै ॥

ha-o vich jaatee jinsee khovai.

In ego they lose social status and class.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥

हउ विचि मूरखु हउ विचि सिआणा ॥

ha-o vich moorakh ha-o vich si-aanaa.

In ego they are ignorant, and in ego they are wise.

ਮੋਖ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੀ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

मोख मुकति की सार न जाणा ॥

mokh mukat kee saar na jaanaa.

They do not know the value of salvation and liberation.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਛਾਇਆ ॥

हउ विचि माइआ हउ विचि छाइआ ॥

ha-o vich maa-i-aa ha-o vich chhaa-i-aa.

In ego they love Maya, and in ego they are kept in darkness by it.

ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਜੰਤ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥

हउमै करि करि जंत उपाइआ ॥

ha-umai kar kar jant upaa-i-aa.

Living in ego, mortal beings are created.

ਹਉਮੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਤਾ ਦਰੁ ਸੂਝੈ ॥

हउमै बूझै ता दरु सूझै ॥

ha-umai boojhai taa dar soojhai.

When one understands ego, then the Lord's gate is known.

ਗਿਆਨ ਵਿਹੂਣਾ ਕਥਿ ਕਥਿ ਲੂਝੈ ॥

गिआन विहूणा कथि कथि लूझै ॥

gi-aan vihoonaa kath kath loojhai.

Without spiritual wisdom, they babble and argue.

ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਲੇਖੁ ॥

नानक हुकमी लिखीऐ लेखु ॥

naanak hukmee likee-ai laykh.

O Nanak, by the Lord's Command, destiny is recorded.

ਜੇਹਾ ਵੇਖਹਿ ਤੇਹਾ ਵੇਖੁ ॥੧॥

जेहा वेखहि तेहा वेखु ॥१॥

jayhaa vaykheh tayhaa vaykh. ||1||

As the Lord sees us, so are we seen. ||1||

Their is no such thing as the Semitic or Hindu concept of Hell for a Sikh. Being at one with waheguroo is the goal. Unfortunately those with Sant Maat tendencies are still stuck at the Hindu and Semitic concepts of Heaven and Hell......they cannot seem to move on........man it must be HELL for them!!!