Self-esteem

[Guest baba amarjeet singh]

firstly i still stik to wat i sed first of all

jap naam

read bani

keep rehit

but also i thought i should correct some of jss's opinoins

"but none of us are willing to say that our families are agisnt gurmat, going to school is against gurmat, wearing nice clothes is against gurmat, wearing nice shoes, cleaning our bodies"

ok, ur gonna have to elaborate on the family bit. having a family is against gurmat???

going to school, is to get education, to get a job, so you can live a gristee jeevan and give dasvandh, use moeny to help people

wearing nice clothes? one should wear bana, nicest cltohes you can get

nice shoes? hmm, wat u mean by nice? as long as they arent broken, or nything, thts gr8

haha, well come on you have to clean yourself, u dont wanna walk around smelly all day do you?

are you comparing wearing make up to having ishnaan daily????

i have said this before on another thread

give me a gurmat reason why we should wear make up or jewellery?

the reasons are to look good

why would you want to look good?

to higher self esteem

wat does tht actually mean?

means tht u want ppl to think gd of u, then u can think gd of urself

wat does gurbani say about this

kbIr fUbihgo ry bwpury bhu logn kI kwin ]

kubeer ddoobehigo rae baapurae buhu logun kee kaan

Kabeer, you shall drown, you wretched being, from worrying about what other people think.

pwrosI ky jo hUAw qU Apny BI jwnu ]167]

paarosee kae jo hooaa thoo apunae bhee jaan

You know that whatever happens to your neighbors, will also happen to you. ||167||

and also

vKru nwmu dyKx koeI jwie ]

vukhur naam dhaekhun koee jaae

How rare is the one who goes out, and searches for the merchandise of the Naam.

nw ko cwKY nw ko Kwie ]

naa ko chaakhai naa ko khaae

No one tastes it, and no one eats it.

loik pqIxY nw piq hoie ]

lok putheenai naa path hoe

Honor is not obtained by trying to please other people.

qw piq rhY rwKY jw soie ]2]

thaa path rehai raakhai jaa soe

One's honor is preserved, only if the Lord preserves it. ||2||

so please mr jss, prove to me tht make up and jewellry is gurmat, or the intentions behind it is gurmat, and i will gladly pop into the shops and buy myself some makeup and put it all over my face

:-)

ok mr jss im looking forward to your replies

:-)

[jassa]

but where is biba who started this thread ????

[Guest Guest]

baba amarjeet singh,

you really should do some santhiyaa....or read prof sahib singh ji's darpan...read faridkot teekha, read bhai vir singh ji's viakhya of gurbani...

because NONE of those quotes say anyting about makeup...those pangtis talk about what we are concerned about in life..it talks about motivation...and you are wrong if you tihnk every girl that wears makeup is concerned with what OTHERS think...do you tie your pug in a nice neat way?...do you wear one colour of the other? do you dress in bana all the time?..how many things do you do in your day that has NOTHING to do with society?

to GKaur89...wow...your post isn't worth replying to...because in your first sentence you've made a false statement...nowhere in my post did i EVER judge all singhniaaan... and secondly...she did hear me...cuz both and her friend were waiting for the lecture doors to open...as i came out i stopped to say fateh...anyhow...i NEVER ONCE extrapolated this experience to say that all singhniaan are bad...i myself come from a family in which all are amritdharis...and some of the most nicest souls i've ever met are true singhniaan of guru sahib...

my post was directed to the poster who was knocking down girls who wear makeup...as if they are any less than others...what's funny is ..all the singhniaan that i know who do a lot of seva and simran..and in fact live dress soo simply...that aunties get mad at them at the gurdwara...i've NEVER once heard them say tha girls shouldn't wear makeup...or that those girls who wear makeup are any less than them...they just give them love...

secondly...GKAUR89...YOU are the one who has generalized....saying that girls wear makeup to attract the opposite gender....which is ridiculous...that may be the case in many people's mind..but not the case in many people's mind also...

i know guys that will spend hours before going to a rensabaiie... to make sure they look good in their bana...you think all of them are doing it for akal purkh? none of them are doing it to attract the opposite gender??

your argument is of no merit...cuz EVERYTHING we do, someone can say you're doing it to attract the opposite gender...

UNLESS YOU PROVIDE THE SANGAT HERE DIRECT REFERENCE FROM GURBANI THAT WEARING MAKEUP IS WRONG ....IF YOU CLAIM IT"S AGAINST GURMAT YOU ARE DOING BEADBI OF GURU SAHIB... CUZ ONLY GURU JI CAN TELL US WHAT IS OR ISN"T GURMAT...and IF IT"S NOT IN GURBANI...then YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO MAKE THINGS UP...

NOW AGAIN

i am not advocating makeup at all...i don't care either way....and i can undersand that you may not like it...and it's perfectly valid for anyone here to say they don't think people should wear makeup...but to talk on behalf of GURU SAHIB...you MUST provide GUIDANCE FROM GURBANI.... that means actually doing VICHAR of the shabads...not simply taking one liners..and only reading the STTM meaning...and then posting....bani is much more deeper than that...but obviously by the arguments i see you people making...you have failed to realize the deep spiritual nature of gurbani...

i don't see how that pangti from dasam patshah's bani has anything to do wiht makeup...

yes...it's telling us to remain distinct...not specifying whether in appearance, actions, thought, spirituality...at least in the first part...

"bipran ki reet" ...pay attention to the word reet ...well at least that's what guides me...the ways and actions...

still, i don't see it relating to wearing makeup....

the pangtis in gurbani that i say people with who wear makeup need to look at are those previous ones mentioned by others...where gurbani talks about our motivations...then they need to evaluate why they do what they do...and if their motivations are the type that gurbani talks about, then they need to recognize that it may be putting an obstacle in their spiritual path...however, if their motivation is completely diferent...then gurbani has not said "do not wear makeup"...

[jss]

i just rpelied to this thread..but i forgot to sign in...so it'll show up eventually as guest...

anyhow..i forgot to read amarjeet's post in full as i stopped reading once i saw how he blatantly misused gurbani to make points...

regarding my point about family and whatnot...you have misread my entire point..and invite you to read it again..and do some vichar...if you cannot think deeply...you shouldn't try to bring things to a more superficial level...

never once did i say anything about families being against gurmat... i was speaking in reference to the face that gurbani says everytihng that is physical...everything DISSANHAAR ...is BINSANHAAR...and it's all KOOR.... so that includes EVERYTHING...gurbani says it directly....now you'll ask me to give you a pangti....go read asa di //...you know that gurbani compositin that we sing and listen to daily??? ...it's time to pay attention to it ...

the reason this was brought up was that people's justifications for saying sikhi is against makeup was that...oh why do you care what you look like...oh it's maya...all motivations that can be applied to ANYTHING...

Gurbani talks about the soul..talks about the MInd...the motivations....if someone goes to sadh sangat for years and does seva for years...he'll get what was in his mind...however, if it's not naam that was his motivation...he'll NEVER get naaam.... again...i invite you to read sukhmani sahib....do vichar of sukhmani sahib...listen to giyani takhur singh ji's katha on sukhmani sahib...

and again..all those activities you are analysing them from your limited perspective..not guru sahib's perspective...you're attaching a practicality beside them..so that makes them okay ...but in the case of makeup...just cuz YOU don't see the practicality...and in truth..i don't see it either...but others see it...and it's for them to decide....guru sahib never said...only do things that make sense to baba amarjeet singh....did he?...what ang was that on?

again...i am sure we will always disagree...however...i am also sure that none of you will be able to justify using sikhism to push your opinions on others with gurbani....you may try, you may twist...but if you read the viakhyaa of gurbani done by scholars and saints...you will see that these pangtis you use for such a physical realm issue...are intended for a much higher realm...

[raj_karega_khalsa]

prhir kpVu jy ipr imlY KusI rwvY ipru sMig ]

parehar kaparr jae pir milai khusee raavai pir sa(n)g ||

Discarding worldly adornments, she meets her Husband Lord, and she celebrates joyfully with Him.

ssry dunno how to use gurmukhee font

[jss]

http://searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=sri...e&page=2474

that link shows the vichar on this pangti which is a part of a full shabad..that we should be looking at...

lets consider this pangti ...discarding worldy adornments...again...guru sahib uses metaphors to describe concepts...

in plain language...how do we meet our lord....gurbani tells us...where there is haumai....naam can't reside...and where there is naam...there can't be haumai....our haumai remains strong because we fuel it everyday, every moment we don't live in remembrance of waheguru...we fuel it with kaam, krodh, lob, moh, ahankar, jhoot, eerkhaa, devait...

in this shabad...when guru sahib refers to worldy adornments...it's talking about all the attachments, all the vishay vikaar such as the ones listed above...how we need to remove all of that from ourselves so that our soul may rise above this physical and mental plane and gain entry into the spiritaul plane...our spiritual home in the charan of akal purkh...

again...read the whole shabad to get a full understanding of the shabad...

[raj_karega_khalsa]

Jab Lag Khaalsaa rahi niaaraa. Thab lag thaej diou(n) mai saaraa. Jab eih gahi bipran kee reeth. Mei(n) na karo in kee partheeth.

[Guest Guest]

JKaur, i really really love your post... Its so true & I can relate to it as well..

"ur sayin we shudn't judge ppl yet here ur sayin ppl who wear make-up etc are better than the singhni wiv the bana, id hav 2 totally disagree wiv u."

bruup! So true !!!

whats the point in adornin this body when its not ours... were jus usin it 2 get to waheguru... wearin make-up etc is not gonna help u at all, plus thers no need 4 it. yehh right, as if a girl wuld admit 2 u that she wears make-up 4 guys... what other reason did they hav 4 wearin it??? its all 4 ppls self-esteem nd attrach the opposit genders attention!

that's sooooo true... so so true... All saints/scholarly people know that, they understand that... When someone reaches the avastha of Gurmukh, they don't want to attract people towards them, infact, they want people to be turned away from them or turned off from them, because they don't WANT attention. They want people to think they are BAD - not attractive, good looking, humble, or anything.... THey only talk to people to help them... They forget themselves... So why would a true Gurmukh want to wear makeup, jewelry, etc. to attract attention to themselves and try to make themselves look more beautiful than the next?? It just doesn't happen...

And How can we say it's okay for bibian to do those certain things, when we set different standards for singhs?

You also said:

agree wiv u on the point where u said "i'm just saying we can't always know the inner condition of someone's soul, simply by what we see on the exterior..." as thats true, u cant tell what ppl r like, only waheguru can, but that doesn't mean wearin make-up is alrite. it seems 2 me like u r tryin 2 say thats its alrite... its also becos of ppl like that that many girls think it is alrite.

I couldnt agree more bhanji. Nice post

[Guest Tarrandeep Kaur]

jss penji/paaji

even if your correct about the interpretaion about gurbani. Where does it say in gurbani that we should keep our hair? Does that mean because it isnt stated in gurbani, we should all cut our hair? Khalsa jee, mahraj says we must keep rehit, mahraj loves rehit. We keep rehit to please our guru sahib, we have ishnaan because mahraj says

gur sathigur kaa jo sikh akhaaeae s bhulukae outh har naam dhiaavai

One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

oudhum kurae bhulukae purubhaathee eisunaan kurae anmrith sar naavai

Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

We keep the panj kakars as our panj piayre told us to do so. We should wake up at amrit vela, jaap naam and read gurbani all out love for mahraj. We should show nimrata and gareebi to our brothers and sisters to respect that jot of mahraj which is contained in all beings. We should live as khalsa, we should apply the make up of naam to our face, we should rise above all these wordly things.

Khalsa jee, please tell me in what way is wearing make up gurmat, how will this please mahraj? Make-up is not the guru's way, we dont need make-up, mahraj made us perfect. Khalsa jee, please dont be so negative, in order for us get anywhere we need naam simran, kirpaa from mahraj, and we need to keep rehit. Khalsa is distinct, i feel that if a singhni was to wear a dastaar and apply make-up, this would be beadbi to the crown that mahraj blessed her with. Why should she paint her face, she is only hiding her real beauty.

Forgive me for any mistakes

Vahigurujikakhalsa vahigurujikifateh

[Guest baba amarjeet singh]

baba amarjeet singh,

you really should do some santhiyaa....or read prof sahib singh ji's darpan...read faridkot teekha, read bhai vir singh ji's viakhya of gurbani...

because NONE of those quotes say anyting about makeup...those pangtis talk about what we are concerned about in life..it talks about motivation...and you are wrong if you tihnk every girl that wears makeup is concerned with what OTHERS think...do you tie your pug in a nice neat way?...do you wear one colour of the other? do you dress in bana all the time?..how many things do you do in your day that has NOTHING to do with society?

to GKaur89...wow...your post isn't worth replying to...because in your first sentence you've made a false statement...nowhere in my post did i EVER judge all singhniaaan... and secondly...she did hear me...cuz both and her friend were waiting for the lecture doors to open...as i came out i stopped to say fateh...anyhow...i NEVER ONCE extrapolated this experience to say that all singhniaan are bad...i myself come from a family in which all are amritdharis...and some of the most nicest souls i've ever met are true singhniaan of guru sahib...

my post was directed to the poster who was knocking down girls who wear makeup...as if they are any less than others...what's funny is ..all the singhniaan that i know who do a lot of seva and simran..and in fact live dress soo simply...that aunties get mad at them at the gurdwara...i've NEVER once heard them say tha girls shouldn't wear makeup...or that those girls who wear makeup are any less than them...they just give them love...

secondly...GKAUR89...YOU are the one who has generalized....saying that girls wear makeup to attract the opposite gender....which is ridiculous...that may be the case in many people's mind..but not the case in many people's mind also...

i know guys that will spend hours before going to a rensabaiie... to make sure they look good in their bana...you think all of them are doing it for akal purkh? none of them are doing it to attract the opposite gender??

your argument is of no merit...cuz EVERYTHING we do, someone can say you're doing it to attract the opposite gender...

UNLESS YOU PROVIDE THE SANGAT HERE DIRECT REFERENCE FROM GURBANI THAT WEARING MAKEUP IS WRONG ....IF YOU CLAIM IT"S AGAINST GURMAT YOU ARE DOING BEADBI OF GURU SAHIB... CUZ ONLY GURU JI CAN TELL US WHAT IS OR ISN"T GURMAT...and IF IT"S NOT IN GURBANI...then YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO MAKE THINGS UP...

NOW AGAIN

i am not advocating makeup at all...i don't care either way....and i can undersand that you may not like it...and it's perfectly valid for anyone here to say they don't think people should wear makeup...but to talk on behalf of GURU SAHIB...you MUST provide GUIDANCE FROM GURBANI.... that means actually doing VICHAR of the shabads...not simply taking one liners..and only reading the STTM meaning...and then posting....bani is much more deeper than that...but obviously by the arguments i see you people making...you have failed to realize the deep spiritual nature of gurbani...

i don't see how that pangti from dasam patshah's bani has anything to do wiht makeup...

yes...it's telling us to remain distinct...not specifying whether in appearance, actions, thought, spirituality...at least in the first part...

"bipran ki reet" ...pay attention to the word reet ...well at least that's what guides me...the ways and actions...

still, i don't see it relating to wearing makeup....

the pangtis in gurbani that i say people with who wear makeup need to look at are those previous ones mentioned by others...where gurbani talks about our motivations...then they need to evaluate why they do what they do...and if their motivations are the type that gurbani talks about, then they need to recognize that it may be putting an obstacle in their spiritual path...however, if their motivation is completely diferent...then gurbani has not said "do not wear makeup"...

all of the tuks talk about make up, BCOS its the intention behind the make up tht i am classing as manmat

i tie ma dastaar neatly as it is the crown of maharaaj and must therefore be shown respect, u cant just dash any old rag on ur

i wear khalsa colours

i wear bana all the time

yeah.... and wa.... ur point is???

i have not misused gurbani in any way whatsoever

I REPEAT FOR THE LAST TIME

how many times i must say this i do not know

u wear make up to look good

for who?

others

if not please mr jss, tell us why people wear make up?????

i am desperate to know

like i said before give me a gurmat reason why ppl wear make up

we have family to live in grihstee jeevan which is what guru sahib wanted us to do

we have ishnaan because we are supposed to do this every day at amrit vela

im not adding a practicallity, if it follows gurmat its fine.

guru told us to live in grihst and have ishnaan daily, where did guru jee say wear make up or jewellery?

you are speaking nonsense my good freind

if you cannot directly answer my questions do not bother posting

i am not twisting anything, unless you can show me tht the intentions of make up and jewerly wearers is something other then to look good for others?

guru jee says follow gurmat, how is jewelry within gurmat?

wa cud motivitate u to wear make up or jewej;ry?

if u go to saadh sangat it will have a good effect

read astpadi 7 of sri sukhmani sahib