Sikhs Deserve Freedom

[khalsaforce]

Jassa veer if you kept posting like this I am not going to waste time anymore.

simple how many people want khalistan in punjab will be clear .... in 2 - 3 days after the result of elections ... MAAN is khalistan supporter .... and lets see how many people favour him ....

Once again Khalistan is a panthic issue and cannot be achieved with political parties like ADA or SAD but with a revolution. independence can only be gain if blood is given.

chandigarh .... i m not making it u can find it your self .... people of chd dont want chd to be made part of punjab or harayana .... and how come u want them to be part of khalistan ????

I have relatives in chandigarh and they dont care about this issue. How many people we talkin here?probably some .05%?

people of punjab today are people of khalistan of future .... people in usa or uk today are will remain people of their country in future also .... so how come khalistan is being forced on us ....

NO once again you are wrong. when dharam yudh morcha began we had too many nasha and mona sikhs but by the mid of dharam yudh morcha we had more amritdhari sikhs and were the khalsa. No one is forcng khalistan on you, only time will tell bro.

in punjab people are more educated .... and they have seen the rule of akali dal .... in khalistan was made 10 - 15 years back then then their would be only one party ruling since then that should be badals ... prime minister of khalistan would be parkash singh badal now no opposition ....

Again read my article on khalistan and who will rule khalistan. it should clear all thoughts.

look at sgpc polling ... 80 % 85 % seats are won by badal dal after every elections ....

Well do i vote for badal in the united states or uk?its people of punjab. preach to them.

what are the basis of khalistan ????

read my article

"he said because he has faith in other leaders"

Do you know about sant jarnail singh jee?he always trusted the sangat then any other leader. sant jee knew leaders will betray the kaum thats why he would say this in his speeches. that jarnail was the fearless son of guru sahib who knew how to live.

"we are asking khalistan without a jarnail without a leader who has power of naam jaap with him .... and history says without a good leader soliders has always lost ...."

Every sikh can be like sant jarnail singh, even sant jee said. just follow SGGS and become the khalsa. phir dekhi kamaal. our leader can never get lost and no matter what happens we will always have a leader, that leader is SGGS jee maharaj.

who is leading khalsitan movement in punjab now ... no one has answer ....

NO ONE, WAITING FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO ACCEPT THE CAUSE.

[pun9ab1]

First of all i would like to appologize for not seeing this, and thank Khalsaforce for a good reply now I will answer the following:

Economic: We can now see how pakistan is surviving( a failed State according to CNN) and your saying food alone will back the new economy? I'm not sure about this but again Japan became a superpower only from raw materials.

Well I believe after general musharaff took over pakistan is doing a pretty darn good job with their economy. If pakistan wasn't doing good with their economy they wouldn't be having trade deals with countries like America,Switzerland,india and many other. Pakistan have way more jobs before general musharaf took over. so yeah its a pretty stable country but still under development just like india. well we have factories that build trains and those trains are shipped to countries like germany and italy. we will use these kind of resources in punjab to support our economy and also invent new resources to support such as different food market and technology stuff. you know we will have too many educated people in punjab and that will be the best part of Khalistan.

Seaports: I doubt India will let us use there seaports and same goes for pakistan. Also, I have not heart about that UN program, I will do research on it.

Well if india wont let us use their seaport then we will ship some grain and wheat over to pakistan so we can use their seaports and then I believe india will be friends with us. like in theb egining india did not support pakistan but now they are having big trade deals. Well that UN Program is out and working these days. I will find a copy of it.

Gurudwaras outside Khalistan: Again i do not think Indian Goverment will allow that but they could be Claimed as embassy of khalistan.

If pakistan can let us protect out gurughars then why wont india?once again we will feed some bone to the dog haha lol. well I dont know about claiming them as embassy infact we dont need to claim them as embassies, just gurudwaras sikh gurughars.

Freeing Khalistan: If we did it by force we will lose India as an ally therefore no seaports in India and no control of gurudwaras in India. Pakistan in my opnion would not serve us any good. They are a failed State Which can alter there position anytime. We need support of a Western nation whether It is Canada Or US, it doesn't matter.

I think Pakistan has a advantage to let us use the seaports so they will at somepoint. Once we gain independence india would have to recognize us as a state of free people. Well for sure we will have support from international sikhs living abroad. but khalistan must have a backbone that will support our country and that is our wheat and our crops you know. make a bunch of money selling our crops to other countries.

However, what about hindus who live in Punjab today? I Surely don't want to see 1984 happen to them.

we even have muslims, christians,atheist and HINDUS living in punjab and other kind of different people. do you think we will make a 1984 for every one of these people?NO. As I stated its a country made for people and any one can live in khalistan, same as guru sahib jee said to become a khalsa you dont have to be born in to the khalsa. race,color,skin doesn't matter you are equal. we follow guru sahib and as i said before it will for sure show us a path to every problem that occurs. There are certain rules to follow for everyone and those panj pyaray will make sure of those rules so there would be no discrimination.

Musharaf is at the mercy of The United States,The reason Pakistan has seen growth is because Musharaf decided to comply With George Bush and help him in the war against "terrorism." However, this made musharaf unpopular in Pakistan, hence the bombings. So, once United States backs out Pakistan will go down once again.

Also, I doubt we will have "friendly" relationship with India. India will not just let us become our own country, the reason Khalistani movement did not succeed in the 90s.

As for Seaports, we also need to keep in mind the taxes that India(if they let us) or Pakistan will put on us. They won't simply let us use there ports for free.

As for the Hindu population in Punjab, I'm very doubtfull that Hindus will be safe. You cannot expect every sikh to be educated enough to repect other religions. Every religion has extremism.

[Laadli Fauj]

So we have our plans laid out, but how to get there?

Someone told me that unless Punjab goes hungry, we wont get Khalistan. There are rich Sikhs everywhere in the world, that don't really care for Khalistan, or pretend they do. We also have no unity whatsoever. Look at every revolution that took place. Majority of the people actually wanted the revolution to happen. A huge amount of Sikhs are against Khalistan.

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

Maybe the pro-khalistanis could kindly answer some of the following questions on how they would deal with the following and sorry answers like “ You’re an rss supporter, congress lover etc” aren’t answers they simply a diversion which frankly is getting really boring. You may label be what you wish, swear, anti panthic, munmuk, etc but kindly also answer the questions.

How would you tackle-

1. female infanticide and embryo selection

2. Inequality

3. racism

4. Ageism

5. Homophobia

6. poor education

7. rising levels of STDs and HIV and lack of awareness.

8. drug abuse

9. failing natural resources at an alarming level

10. lack of renewable energy, well energy generally

11. corrupt government

12. corrupt officials

13. corrupt SGPC

14. low GDP, what are you going to trade? potatoes?

15. lack of ports

16. lack of facilities

17. poor healthcare

18. Destruction of Sikh heritage and distortion of Sikh history

19. Lack of a viable army

20. lack of viable navy ( this one should be easy )

21. lack of viable air force

22. lack of nuclear collateral, since your neighbours have nukes for every day of the week

23. Increased taxation on goods and earnings

In my opinion Khalistan will never be a land of the free, as history played out after 1984 and has already shown people will be forced to keep their hair, Meat shops, Haircutters, alcohol vendors, and any one else who does not fit in to the elitist regime will be sent packing. You may argue but these are vices, true to some they maybe but they are also choices. People have the right to choose what they want . On a more serious not it is becoming blatantly clear that those you support such a state also have problems with racism, homosexuals, caste and creed and display some very dangerous prejudices towards others that do not support them and do not believe in a similar mindset.

What these people want is a nanny state, no free thinkers no one to argue back. A white wash land whiter than white for the elite and morally incorruptible. The Nazis of Europe had similar ideology they also wanted an elitist nation purer than pure Arian stock these khalistanis have very similar overtones. The Nazis suffered from the Zionist conspiracy Khalistanis suffer from the Hindu conspiracy.

Pakistan was segregated from India how successful has that been? there is civil strife between the orthodox and free thinkers, a nation that is under military rule, economically unviable, and the world hub for terrorism.

We have a right to exist in India our forefathers fought for our right to exist. We have a right to freedom of thought without prejudice and equality, opportunity, freedom of speech, would we get that in a khalistan state? Our Gurus never claimed anything as theirs yet they wish to carve the land and proclaim it as theirs. Khalistans birth will cause another mass exodus similar to that of Pakistans creation. The biggest exodus in human history.

A Khalistani once told me during the period after 1984 posters were put up in Panjab by the karkoos saying women should wear chunnis, head scarf in public. He continued to say the youth are becoming corrupt we don’t like this fashion business. I argued with him saying covering you head and what your morals are worlds apart, forcing people thru fear to cover up this nothing but dictatorship, it’s the morals of men you want to look at but then you would have to start brain washing those that have wondering eyes. He wasn’t amused. Will this be one of their first policies? Whilst Panjab starves?

The lotus can grow in the most putrid of environments, Sikhi is like the lotus it can grow anywhere we don’t need a sterile pond to flourish.

[Crazy Baba]

if khalistan is to work you ahve to tackles the problems in panjab first which is obvious.. i am not agaisnt khalsitan but i am against the idea of it being just a amritdhari state. oh and how you gonna get khalistan??? when the "great man" badal is in politics maybe you need to get rid of him first

[anhad]

Oh my god well I am here with the most saddening news of 2007 Badal has won the elections in Punjab and the future of Punjab is doomed for 5 years. 5 years of unstoppable corruption. Well for you Khalistanis you can just dream for Khalistan now. The coward is back in power. Ughh its pissin the hell out of me.

[Crazy Baba]

Oh my god well I am here with the most saddening news of 2007 Badal has won the elections in Punjab and the future of Punjab is doomed for 5 years. 5 years of unstoppable corruption. Well for you Khalistanis you can just dream for Khalistan now. The coward is back in power. Ughh its pissin the hell out of me.

yaaaaay he won dat man is soo popular he shud run for prime minster of india

[anhad]

Okey well I have been trying to ignore this long speech and I probably will.. Just write a summary.

1984 was not crap no not at all but repeating the past for the present is just plain wrong. Indian government according to you was wrong. I agree, (I wont use Sikhs, because a true Sikh who follows the SGGS Maharaj would never perform the acts which were led by Bhindranwale’s men) were no better. There is a saying in Punjabi that you cant clap with one hand. The whole crisis were created by Indra Ghandi and Bhindranwale. Both of them died so we are equal.

Actually I am tiered and am not going to write the whole thing.

There were only a few hand full of Sikh Shaheed’s who died for a reason. The rest were thieves In search for quick money. That includes almost all your shaheed bhia Khalsa’s.

I’ll just write my points and we can argue on them.

1) Bhindranwale Baba was not a Sant.

2) The government of India was justified in attacking the Akal Thakth. But not The Golden Temple. They should have found an alternative to eleminate Bhindranwale and his men.

3) There was no cause. There is no Sikh cause. If there was a cause Khalistan would have been created a long time ago.

4) Khalistani terrorists were created by the government and when the time came they were eliminated within months. Rajive Ghandi was the core to Khalistan problem after he was assassinated terrorism in Punjab stoped.

5) Sikhs in Punjab do not want a Khalistan. They don’t need a Khalistan. Times have changed since 1984.

6) The final statement which hits the topics tittle. (((SIKHS HAVE FREEDOM))) What are you cribbing about?

[Guest DKI]

There were only a few hand full of Sikh Shaheed’s who died for a reason. The rest were thieves In search for quick money. That includes almost all your shaheed bhia Khalsa’s.

Are you really a Sikh? Those Sikhs who were martyred by the Indian security forces were mainly civilians. The number of militants slain during actual clashes with the police/army was much, much smaller than persons who were executed in custody or in faked encounters. Had Khalistan militant outfits been made up of 'criminals' there is no way the armed stuggle would have lasted for as long as it did.

It was because of the legitimacy the ordinary civilian folk gave to the armed struggle that it was able to maintain itself for so long. Without the support of the masses, there would have been no armed struggle, let alone one that lasted for around a decade. Its that simple.

The use of overwhelming force - draconian laws and police brutality against Sikh civilians and finally a full scale military operation carried out by both the Indian army and Punjab police in 1991 and 1992 (Operation Rakshak) is what put an end to the armed stuggle.

Your theory of those martyred being mainly criminals is unfounded and in poor taste.

I’ll just write my points and we can argue on them.

1) Bhindranwale Baba was not a Sant.

Sikhs, collectively, have accepted him as not only Sant but also Shaheed. So your views on him reflect only on yourself. You cannot argue this point because Sant Bhindranwale has already been accorded these titles and will go down in Sikh history as being a Sant and a Shaheed.

2) The government of India was justified in attacking the Akal Thakth. But not The Golden Temple.

Have you ever been to Amritsar? I doubt it, or you would know that the Darbar Sahib is apart of the same complex as the Akal Takth Sahib. The Darbar Sahib was not attacked during Operation Bluestar and no one had taken any arms in there. The Golden Temple Complex is far older than the Indian Union and is sacred ground for Sikhs. It is not the property of the Indian government and they had no justification for sending their army in there, especially on a Gurpurab when thousands of pilgrims were inside. Operation Bluestar was a deliberate act of state terrorism designed not only to kill Sant Bhindranwale and his closest supporters but was also a psychological attack on the entire Sikh people.

3) There was no cause. There is no Sikh cause. If there was a cause Khalistan would have been created a long time ago.

If there was no Sikh cause then the Sikhs would have never pushed for the partition of Punjab during the 1940's and the entire British province of Punjab, right up to the borders of Delhi, would now be a province of Pakistan. You can thank the Sikhs that your beloved India even managed to get around 38% of British Punjab in 1947.

Now there has been a Sikh cause ever since the 18th century otherwise the Sikhs would have never developed into a nation and socio-political entity out of an ideology that started out as purely spiritual and God oriented.

4) Khalistani terrorists were created by the government and when the time came they were eliminated within months. Rajive Ghandi was the core to Khalistan problem after he was assassinated terrorism in Punjab stoped.

This is new. And for the past couple of decades the Khalistani "terrorists" had always been blamed as being a creation of Pakistan's ISI - With some conspiracy theories going so far as to say the Khalistan militants were Pakistanis dressed up as Sikhs! Please provide proof for your allegations or simply dont spread this propaganda.

5) Sikhs in Punjab do not want a Khalistan. They don’t need a Khalistan. Times have changed since 1984.

Sikhs of Punjab have their own voice and it cannot be spoken for by you.

6) The final statement which hits the topics tittle. (((SIKHS HAVE FREEDOM))) What are you cribbing about?

Another matter of debate.

[jayd]

Maybe we should start by getting freedom from Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh, & Ahankar first.