Double Standards In Sikhi

[Guest Papi]

yes i was quoting sgpc REHIT, read everything i write, dont pick a few words and try to turn it around because it only makes you look like an <banned word filter activated>

this thread probly has like 4 decent replies, rest all is garbage

[Gupt Daas -Anonyms Servant]

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Vaheguru Ji Ke Fateh!

Never Hate, Always Love and Forgive Ji

Naam Japu

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Vaheguru Ji Ke Fateh!

[swordsedge]

Let's not get into personal attacks and mind our language please.

In Punjab, just like other places many Sikhs are still influenced by Punjabi culture and doing things contrary to Sikhi. Many Western Sikhs following Sikhi have better followed the notion of Equality and we should look to the good example set and follow it. Regarding Castes - brother Gurbani teaches not to take pride in our castes and to reject them. Bhagat Ravi Das was of cobbler descent, Bhagat Dhanna was a Farmer. Bhagat Kabir was born into the Weaver caste. Bhagat Pipa was born a King. Bhagat Fareed was born a Muslim. Yet all through true prayer and improving their Jeevan embraced Waheguru. So much so that they contributed to the beauty of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Brother, the double standards are not in Sikhi but Punjabi culture. In Punjab it was part of culture to throw the wife on her deceased husband's funeral pyre was it not?

Guru Sahib spoke out against this.

Now in Punjab, it is part of culture that families are killing female babies in the womb. Female infanticide was common during Guru Sahib's time too and they spoke against this. This is all against Sikhi. Sri Guru Granth Sahib tells us:

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, // Asa, pg. 473)

Marriage is an equal partnership of love and sharing between husband and wife.

"They are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together. Rather they alone are called husband and wife, who have one soul in two bodies." (Guru Amar Das, Pauri, pg. 788)

Women have an equal right to participate in the congregation.

"Come my sisters and dear comrades! Clasp me in thine embrace. Meeting together, let us tell the tales of our Omnipotent Spouse (God). In the True Lord are all merits, in us all demerits." (Guru Nanak Dev, Sri Rag, pg. 17)

God is the husband and we are all his brides.

"The spouse is but One and all others are His brides. The false bride assumes many religious garbs. When the Lord stops her going into another's home, then is she summoned into her Lord's mansion without any let and hindrance. She is adorned with the Name and is dear to her True Lord. She alone is the true bride and the Lord lends her His support." (Guru Nanak Dev, Ramkali, pg. 933)

God is our Mother as well as our Father.

"Thou O Lord, art my Father and Thou my Mother. Thou art the Giver of peace to my soul and very life." (Guru Arjan Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1144)

Faithfulness to ones spouse is stressed.

It is part of culture to have extra-marital affairs, this too is condemned in Sikhi

"The blind-man abandons the wife of his home, and has an affair with another's woman. He is like the parrot, who is pleased to see the simbal tree, but at last dies clinging to it." (Bhagat Nam Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1165)

The rape and brutalities committed against women by the Mughal invader Babar is condemned.

"Modesty and righteousness both have vanished and falsehood moves about as the leader, O Lalo. The function of the Qazis and the Brahmins is over and the Satan now reads the marriage rites (rape). The Muslim women read the Quran and in suffering call upon God, O Lalo. The Hindu women of high cast and others of low caste, may also be put in the same account, O Lalo." (Guru Nanak Dev, Tilang, pg. 722)

The practice of women burning themselves on their husband's funeral pyre (sati) in Punjabi culture is condemned.

"They cannot be called satis, who burn themselves with their dead husbands. They can only be called satis, if they bear the shock of separation. They may also be known as satis, who live with character and contentment and always show veneration to their husbands by remembering them." (Guru Amar Das, // Suhi, pg. 787)

The ritual of dowry so prevalent in Punjabi culture is condemned.

"Any other dowry, which the perverse place for show, that is false pride and worthless gilding. O' my Father! give me the Name of Lord God as a gift and dowry." (Guru Ram Das, Sri Rag, pg. 79)

Brother it is part of Punjabi culture to drink excessively, consume drugs, go around Punjab we can all see for ourselves. The question is will we let Guru ji into our hearts or this culture?

[AkalPurakhDiFauj]

Let's not get into personal attacks and mind our language please.

In Punjab, just like other places many Sikhs are still influenced by Punjabi culture and doing things contrary to Sikhi. Many Western Sikhs following Sikhi have better followed the notion of Equality and we should look to the good example set and follow it. Regarding Castes - brother Gurbani teaches not to take pride in our castes and to reject them. Bhagat Ravi Das was of cobbler descent, Bhagat Dhanna was a Farmer. Bhagat Kabir was born into the Weaver caste. Bhagat Pipa was born a King. Bhagat Fareed was born a Muslim. Yet all through true prayer and improving their Jeevan embraced Waheguru. So much so that they contributed to the beauty of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Brother, the double standards are not in Sikhi but Punjabi culture. In Punjab it was part of culture to throw the wife on her deceased husband's funeral pyre was it not?

Guru Sahib spoke out against this.

Now in Punjab, it is part of culture that families are killing female babies in the womb. Female infanticide was common during Guru Sahib's time too and they spoke against this. This is all against Sikhi. Sri Guru Granth Sahib tells us:

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, // Asa, pg. 473)

Marriage is an equal partnership of love and sharing between husband and wife.

"They are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together. Rather they alone are called husband and wife, who have one soul in two bodies." (Guru Amar Das, Pauri, pg. 788)

Women have an equal right to participate in the congregation.

"Come my sisters and dear comrades! Clasp me in thine embrace. Meeting together, let us tell the tales of our Omnipotent Spouse (God). In the True Lord are all merits, in us all demerits." (Guru Nanak Dev, Sri Rag, pg. 17)

God is the husband and we are all his brides.

"The spouse is but One and all others are His brides. The false bride assumes many religious garbs. When the Lord stops her going into another's home, then is she summoned into her Lord's mansion without any let and hindrance. She is adorned with the Name and is dear to her True Lord. She alone is the true bride and the Lord lends her His support." (Guru Nanak Dev, Ramkali, pg. 933)

God is our Mother as well as our Father.

"Thou O Lord, art my Father and Thou my Mother. Thou art the Giver of peace to my soul and very life." (Guru Arjan Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1144)

Faithfulness to ones spouse is stressed.

It is part of culture to have extra-marital affairs, this too is condemned in Sikhi

"The blind-man abandons the wife of his home, and has an affair with another's woman. He is like the parrot, who is pleased to see the simbal tree, but at last dies clinging to it." (Bhagat Nam Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1165)

The rape and brutalities committed against women by the Mughal invader Babar is condemned.

"Modesty and righteousness both have vanished and falsehood moves about as the leader, O Lalo. The function of the Qazis and the Brahmins is over and the Satan now reads the marriage rites (rape). The Muslim women read the Quran and in suffering call upon God, O Lalo. The Hindu women of high cast and others of low caste, may also be put in the same account, O Lalo." (Guru Nanak Dev, Tilang, pg. 722)

The practice of women burning themselves on their husband's funeral pyre (sati) in Punjabi culture is condemned.

"They cannot be called satis, who burn themselves with their dead husbands. They can only be called satis, if they bear the shock of separation. They may also be known as satis, who live with character and contentment and always show veneration to their husbands by remembering them." (Guru Amar Das, // Suhi, pg. 787)

The ritual of dowry so prevalent in Punjabi culture is condemned.

"Any other dowry, which the perverse place for show, that is false pride and worthless gilding. O' my Father! give me the Name of Lord God as a gift and dowry." (Guru Ram Das, Sri Rag, pg. 79)

Brother it is part of Punjabi culture to drink excessively, consume drugs, go around Punjab we can all see for ourselves. The question is will we let Guru ji into our hearts or this culture?

very nice response veeray or panji.

[Saahiba]

Let's not get into personal attacks and mind our language please.

In Punjab, just like other places many Sikhs are still influenced by Punjabi culture and doing things contrary to Sikhi. Many Western Sikhs following Sikhi have better followed the notion of Equality and we should look to the good example set and follow it. Regarding Castes - brother Gurbani teaches not to take pride in our castes and to reject them. Bhagat Ravi Das was of cobbler descent, Bhagat Dhanna was a Farmer. Bhagat Kabir was born into the Weaver caste. Bhagat Pipa was born a King. Bhagat Fareed was born a Muslim. Yet all through true prayer and improving their Jeevan embraced Waheguru. So much so that they contributed to the beauty of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Brother, the double standards are not in Sikhi but Punjabi culture. In Punjab it was part of culture to throw the wife on her deceased husband's funeral pyre was it not?

Guru Sahib spoke out against this.

Now in Punjab, it is part of culture that families are killing female babies in the womb. Female infanticide was common during Guru Sahib's time too and they spoke against this. This is all against Sikhi. Sri Guru Granth Sahib tells us:

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, // Asa, pg. 473)

Marriage is an equal partnership of love and sharing between husband and wife.

"They are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together. Rather they alone are called husband and wife, who have one soul in two bodies." (Guru Amar Das, Pauri, pg. 788)

Women have an equal right to participate in the congregation.

"Come my sisters and dear comrades! Clasp me in thine embrace. Meeting together, let us tell the tales of our Omnipotent Spouse (God). In the True Lord are all merits, in us all demerits." (Guru Nanak Dev, Sri Rag, pg. 17)

God is the husband and we are all his brides.

"The spouse is but One and all others are His brides. The false bride assumes many religious garbs. When the Lord stops her going into another's home, then is she summoned into her Lord's mansion without any let and hindrance. She is adorned with the Name and is dear to her True Lord. She alone is the true bride and the Lord lends her His support." (Guru Nanak Dev, Ramkali, pg. 933)

God is our Mother as well as our Father.

"Thou O Lord, art my Father and Thou my Mother. Thou art the Giver of peace to my soul and very life." (Guru Arjan Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1144)

Faithfulness to ones spouse is stressed.

It is part of culture to have extra-marital affairs, this too is condemned in Sikhi

"The blind-man abandons the wife of his home, and has an affair with another's woman. He is like the parrot, who is pleased to see the simbal tree, but at last dies clinging to it." (Bhagat Nam Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1165)

The rape and brutalities committed against women by the Mughal invader Babar is condemned.

"Modesty and righteousness both have vanished and falsehood moves about as the leader, O Lalo. The function of the Qazis and the Brahmins is over and the Satan now reads the marriage rites (rape). The Muslim women read the Quran and in suffering call upon God, O Lalo. The Hindu women of high cast and others of low caste, may also be put in the same account, O Lalo." (Guru Nanak Dev, Tilang, pg. 722)

The practice of women burning themselves on their husband's funeral pyre (sati) in Punjabi culture is condemned.

"They cannot be called satis, who burn themselves with their dead husbands. They can only be called satis, if they bear the shock of separation. They may also be known as satis, who live with character and contentment and always show veneration to their husbands by remembering them." (Guru Amar Das, // Suhi, pg. 787)

The ritual of dowry so prevalent in Punjabi culture is condemned.

"Any other dowry, which the perverse place for show, that is false pride and worthless gilding. O' my Father! give me the Name of Lord God as a gift and dowry." (Guru Ram Das, Sri Rag, pg. 79)

Brother it is part of Punjabi culture to drink excessively, consume drugs, go around Punjab we can all see for ourselves. The question is will we let Guru ji into our hearts or this culture?

very nice response veeray or panji.

IK ONG KAR SATGUR PARSAD!

The tendency to show off in our punjabi culture is a known fact. But I feel that this tendency is a result of the pride that we take in our existence. In the bargain, we tend to forget modesty and other values..

Let us remember that our gurus lived to revive these good values and let us not waste sacrifices made by them..

Bhul chuk maaf karnee ji!

[Guest Amrik$ingh]

funjabi link more like

[KKV]

yes we are.

[Hardeep__singh]

I have read all 7 pages and I must say that most people are quite wrong about Sikhi!

Lets got right back to square one and ask ourselves, what does SIKH mean?

Sikhs means a person who is willing or wanting to follow the path of the Gurus, whether he or she is Sejahdhari, Keshdhari or Amritdhari, these are the 3 learning students.

Stage 1

Sehajdhari - The one who cuts his or her hair, but goes to gurughar for sikhya, S/he still is a student of the Guru, so therefore is a SIKH, but not a true SIKH as S/he is a Sehajdhari. The one acknowledges the Guru's teachings but does not adhere to them fully.

Stage 2

Keshdhari - The one who does everything what an amritdhari Gursikh does but has not been a baptized as yet, is also a person who is learning, therefore S/he is a SIKH.

Stage 3

Amritdhari - The khalsa of the Guru, the one who has learnt the basic principles, but who is still learning to perfect the life we live here, is also known as SIKH, but who is TRUE SIKH according to Guru Ram Das ji.

Let e give you an example, when we do a degree course we are all called an undergraduate and once we attain the degree we are called a graduate, same with Sikhism, we may start from being a Sehajdhari Sikh (assuming), and then learn more by becoming a Keshdhari and then at a later stage perhaps with Guru jis Kirpa we become Amritdhari, the TRUE SIKH as Guru Ram Das Ji has defined.

So to conclude to you ALL, Sikh means to learn, a student, so a student is not perfect, S/he needs guidance and therefore once they got the guidance and the correct path to follow to become a Amritdhari, only then they can say they are a TRUE SIKH of the Guru.

Note when I apply TRUE SIKH and SIKH, however even when we do take Amrit we have still alot more to learn and to perfect ourselves in what the Guru has commanded us to do daily and all time in our lives.

We are all on some stage in Sikhism, some of us choose to trim beards, keep beards etc etc, but we are at a different level of learning curve in SIkhism as SIKH, a learner aka a student.

As for Sikhi having double standards, because we are in Kalyug, and there is so much maya out there, even if there are keshdhari sikhs (one of the learning ones) they still ignore there female counterparts who do alter gods creations, not all of them but some, it really depends on the individual, you can not stereotypically suggest the Sikhism has double standards. Sikhism is all about learning and trying to learn.

I have seen may people argue about this, even the high seats in Sikhism, but they all forget one thing, what is a SIKH? They would jump in to rehatmaryadha and all sorts, but before doign so they need to take the word SIKH literally.

An example of a fellow member of the Sikhsangat is a learning SIKH:

Barjinder Singh

i m also in the same state as u r.

i have full beard and kesh . i love my religion..i have that enthusiasm. but not yet ready to take amrit. i will take amrit when i will be able to develop rehat in myself. not only reading gurbani but also understanding it. right now, i think i m not yet ready for it. but trying to be ready.

Bhul Chuk maaf karna ji!

[Punjabi_Link]

Let's not get into personal attacks and mind our language please.

In Punjab, just like other places many Sikhs are still influenced by Punjabi culture and doing things contrary to Sikhi. Many Western Sikhs following Sikhi have better followed the notion of Equality and we should look to the good example set and follow it. Regarding Castes - brother Gurbani teaches not to take pride in our castes and to reject them. Bhagat Ravi Das was of cobbler descent, Bhagat Dhanna was a Farmer. Bhagat Kabir was born into the Weaver caste. Bhagat Pipa was born a King. Bhagat Fareed was born a Muslim. Yet all through true prayer and improving their Jeevan embraced Waheguru. So much so that they contributed to the beauty of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Brother, the double standards are not in Sikhi but Punjabi culture. In Punjab it was part of culture to throw the wife on her deceased husband's funeral pyre was it not?

Guru Sahib spoke out against this.

Now in Punjab, it is part of culture that families are killing female babies in the womb. Female infanticide was common during Guru Sahib's time too and they spoke against this. This is all against Sikhi. Sri Guru Granth Sahib tells us:

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, // Asa, pg. 473)

Marriage is an equal partnership of love and sharing between husband and wife.

"They are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together. Rather they alone are called husband and wife, who have one soul in two bodies." (Guru Amar Das, Pauri, pg. 788)

Women have an equal right to participate in the congregation.

"Come my sisters and dear comrades! Clasp me in thine embrace. Meeting together, let us tell the tales of our Omnipotent Spouse (God). In the True Lord are all merits, in us all demerits." (Guru Nanak Dev, Sri Rag, pg. 17)

God is the husband and we are all his brides.

"The spouse is but One and all others are His brides. The false bride assumes many religious garbs. When the Lord stops her going into another's home, then is she summoned into her Lord's mansion without any let and hindrance. She is adorned with the Name and is dear to her True Lord. She alone is the true bride and the Lord lends her His support." (Guru Nanak Dev, Ramkali, pg. 933)

God is our Mother as well as our Father.

"Thou O Lord, art my Father and Thou my Mother. Thou art the Giver of peace to my soul and very life." (Guru Arjan Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1144)

Faithfulness to ones spouse is stressed.

It is part of culture to have extra-marital affairs, this too is condemned in Sikhi

"The blind-man abandons the wife of his home, and has an affair with another's woman. He is like the parrot, who is pleased to see the simbal tree, but at last dies clinging to it." (Bhagat Nam Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1165)

The rape and brutalities committed against women by the Mughal invader Babar is condemned.

"Modesty and righteousness both have vanished and falsehood moves about as the leader, O Lalo. The function of the Qazis and the Brahmins is over and the Satan now reads the marriage rites (rape). The Muslim women read the Quran and in suffering call upon God, O Lalo. The Hindu women of high cast and others of low caste, may also be put in the same account, O Lalo." (Guru Nanak Dev, Tilang, pg. 722)

The practice of women burning themselves on their husband's funeral pyre (sati) in Punjabi culture is condemned.

"They cannot be called satis, who burn themselves with their dead husbands. They can only be called satis, if they bear the shock of separation. They may also be known as satis, who live with character and contentment and always show veneration to their husbands by remembering them." (Guru Amar Das, // Suhi, pg. 787)

The ritual of dowry so prevalent in Punjabi culture is condemned.

"Any other dowry, which the perverse place for show, that is false pride and worthless gilding. O' my Father! give me the Name of Lord God as a gift and dowry." (Guru Ram Das, Sri Rag, pg. 79)

Brother it is part of Punjabi culture to drink excessively, consume drugs, go around Punjab we can all see for ourselves. The question is will we let Guru ji into our hearts or this culture?

It looks like culture is winning the battle so far. No offense of course.

[Punjabi_Link]

I have read all 7 pages and I must say that most people are quite wrong about Sikhi!

Lets got right back to square one and ask ourselves, what does SIKH mean?

Sikhs means a person who is willing or wanting to follow the path of the Gurus, whether he or she is Sejahdhari, Keshdhari or Amritdhari, these are the 3 learning students.

Stage 1

Sehajdhari - The one who cuts his or her hair, but goes to gurughar for sikhya, S/he still is a student of the Guru, so therefore is a SIKH, but not a true SIKH as S/he is a Sehajdhari. The one acknowledges the Guru's teachings but does not adhere to them fully.

Stage 2

Keshdhari - The one who does everything what an amritdhari Gursikh does but has not been a baptized as yet, is also a person who is learning, therefore S/he is a SIKH.

Stage 3

Amritdhari - The khalsa of the Guru, the one who has learnt the basic principles, but who is still learning to perfect the life we live here, is also known as SIKH, but who is TRUE SIKH according to Guru Ram Das ji.

Let e give you an example, when we do a degree course we are all called an undergraduate and once we attain the degree we are called a graduate, same with Sikhism, we may start from being a Sehajdhari Sikh (assuming), and then learn more by becoming a Keshdhari and then at a later stage perhaps with Guru jis Kirpa we become Amritdhari, the TRUE SIKH as Guru Ram Das Ji has defined.

So to conclude to you ALL, Sikh means to learn, a student, so a student is not perfect, S/he needs guidance and therefore once they got the guidance and the correct path to follow to become a Amritdhari, only then they can say they are a TRUE SIKH of the Guru.

Note when I apply TRUE SIKH and SIKH, however even when we do take Amrit we have still alot more to learn and to perfect ourselves in what the Guru has commanded us to do daily and all time in our lives.

We are all on some stage in Sikhism, some of us choose to trim beards, keep beards etc etc, but we are at a different level of learning curve in SIkhism as SIKH, a learner aka a student.

As for Sikhi having double standards, because we are in Kalyug, and there is so much maya out there, even if there are keshdhari sikhs (one of the learning ones) they still ignore there female counterparts who do alter gods creations, not all of them but some, it really depends on the individual, you can not stereotypically suggest the Sikhism has double standards. Sikhism is all about learning and trying to learn.

I have seen may people argue about this, even the high seats in Sikhism, but they all forget one thing, what is a SIKH? They would jump in to rehatmaryadha and all sorts, but before doign so they need to take the word SIKH literally.

An example of a fellow member of the Sikhsangat is a learning SIKH:

Barjinder Singh

i m also in the same state as u r.

i have full beard and kesh . i love my religion..i have that enthusiasm. but not yet ready to take amrit. i will take amrit when i will be able to develop rehat in myself. not only reading gurbani but also understanding it. right now, i think i m not yet ready for it. but trying to be ready.

Bhul Chuk maaf karna ji!

Interesting post! :TH:

So technically speaking, you can still classify yourself as a Sikh without taking amrit. If so, then some Sikhs need to re-evaluate their knowledge of Sikhi.