'victory' For Sikh At Passport Office

[AK-47]

http://www.sikhsangat.org/news/publish/eur...ght_in_UK.shtml

Sorry if im misreading the article or something ... but is this guy saying that he has managed to get the passport office to agree to let him take his kirpan off and put it in a 'special box blessed by the gurdwara' which is kept by the security guards ....

how is that any different to what happens now?! your still taking your kirpan off? is it just that they now have a fancy 'blessed box' to keep it in!?

if thats whats happened then i wish he had just kept quiet in the first place. By people taking on these issues like this and getting weid results it makes the rest of us look even stranger when we say 'eh what special box are you on about!'.

Just sounds really weird to me! Anyone got any more imformation?

A VICTORY for the religious faithful has been won by a Sikh man who was refused entry to passport offices while wearing the holy Kirpan.

Tarsem Singh, 27, always wears the Kirpan, a symbollic three inch dagger, as it is one of the five K's which he is required to wear as an initiated Sikh, and he was offended by the way he was treated when he went to the Identity and Passport Service buildings in London Victoria to change his passport picture.

He said he was humiliated by security guards who perceived him as a threat and insisted he could not enter the building without removing the dagger.

He said: "I felt like they were talking down to me and didn't look at me as a British citizen even though I was born here. It made me feel very small and it was really disheartening.

"Before I became seriously religious, people saw me as more a part of the community, but now because I was wearing a turban people looked at me as if I am a part of Al-Qaeda and that is a horrible experience."

Mr Singh took the opportunity to change the rules for other members of the Sikh community, and with the support of his manager, Wilson Chowdhry at AA Security in Cranbrook Road, he has managed to turn things around.

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Sikh customers entering IPS premesis whilst carrying the Kirpan will now be asked to place it in a small box which has been blessed at a Sikh gurdwara (temple) and it will be retained by security guards until they leave.

A Home Office spokeswoman said: "Sikh customers who do not feel able to follow the procedure outlined will be able to conduct their business at a specially designated window thus ensuring the customer's needs are met."

Mr Singh said: "I'm happy about the fact that we can now go in as citizens, because we are a part of Britain and we want to be able to go into the buildings as anyone else can.

"We just want to be able to carry on with our lives as everyone else does."

[guru'sfateh]

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh,

I think the singh thinks he has achieved a result but in fact nothing has changed. A box blessed by the gurdvara sahib?! (Yeah right)

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh.

[Sarbloh]

I do know of Tarsem Singh and I would be surprised if he accepted this compromise. Moreover he would not have been the only Sikh indvidual involved in talks with the Passport office, as far as I can make out the Sikh Federation (UK), British Sikh Federation and British Sikh Consulate were also involved in talks with the passport office regarding other Sikhs who faced the same problem.

I personally think the Guardian Newspaper are presenting distorted facts or something has gone drastically wrong with the communication between the Sikh bodies and the passport office. Either that or there's a publicity stunt from this manager "Wilson Chowdhry at AA Security"??? that's backfiring on the Sikh community. I think a message needs to be relayed back to Tarsem Singh about the presentation of facts here.

[rsingh]

Vaheguroo jee ka khalsa vaheguroo jee kee fatehh

Load of rubbish. I know veer Tarsem Singh well and just got of phone to him. He wouldn't accept anything like that. All they have said to him is they will designate a room which Sikhs can meet with officers in therefore not having to remove kirpaan. Tarsem would never accept removing kirpaan to enter office hence he refused first time round.

I would like to know who is meant to have agreed to a "holy box" rubbish as it certainly was NOT Tarsem Singh.

could SikhSangat.org correct the story!

Vaheguroo jee ka khalsa vaheguroo jee kee fatehh

[Wutgwan]

Gurfateh.

if the facts as outlined here are correct, then's its not really a victory.

Some Singhs in the Midlands had a case with a major football stadium not letting in Kirpans last yr

the SInghs sat down with them. The intital problem was that there was no other policies or case studies to guide them., so this particurlar club had to make their own descision (FA, football licensing, police etc left the desicision with them).

Bascially they came up with a really good policy, that can also be used in other cases.

If a football club allows siri shaibs in, where there is a history of violeence on terreaces, then to me that is a good step, and the same logic for that can be used elsewhere.

One thing through that particurlar case, was the Singhs never compromised, it took months of negiotian, but Guru's kirpa, things worked.

Thus my point is, never compromise on these issues, and have a look at other policy etc.

Gurfateh ji

[Singh132]

I think the pertinent line in the article that might clarify things is the following:

"Sikh customers who do not feel able to follow the procedure outlined will be able to conduct their business at a specially designated window thus ensuring the customer's needs are met."

[S.S.F]

are we allowed to wear our kirpans to india or bak frm india on the plane

[SINGH_DDT_1984]

im surprised that they actually saw the ''3 inch kirpan'''

[rsingh]

Following is posted for Veer Tarsem Singh:

Vaaheguroojeekakhalsa Vaaheguroojeekifateh

I don’t really post on forums. I’ve only posted through a veer of mine

because, I once posted on Sikh Sangat once before which was a very long time

ago and I don’t remember my password and for some reason when I try to get a

password reminder it doesn’t send it. Also when I attempted to register it

still hasn’t been activated. This is my only resort.

Firstly I would like to clarify I WOULD NEVER consider taking off my

kirpaan, anyone that knows me would know I wouldn’t consider such a thing,

and I really am surprised and shocked at this article. It wouldn’t make

sense because that ‘box thing’ was offered to me when I had been asked to

take it off during my time at the passport office and had refused, so if

that what is offered as a solution, then Sikh Federation and any other

parties involved and Sikhs haven’t gained anything.

Secondly I myself found out about this from a veer who saw it on Sikh

Sangat. Not once have the Home Office contacted me, not once have the

Passport office contacted me neither have any Sikh orgs who have been

liaising with government bodies have contacted me. I had no Idea about this

solution. I had only heard hearsay about Amrithdhaari Singh/Singhnees

having a separate booth to collect their passport (which I think was a good

outcome) In regards to this ‘special box’ I am clueless about this and also

would like to know who agree to such a thing. I am disappointed in the

media in keep using me, when I have no idea about what’s going on. I think

this article was just a media stunt for Wilson Chowdhry (which I am going to

talk to) to get profile as he wants to gain something from this.

I do ardaas that for all our veer/bhens never to consider to take off their

kirpaans or any kakkars. Punj Kakkars are our nishaani of Guroo Gobind

Singh Jee. Saadi rehit ah.

Rehit Piaari Mujhkho Sikh piaara naahi(n)

I remember a singh told me that Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh explained that your

Sikh/Rehit is like a tube filled with liquid if you get a crack in the tube

slowly the liquid will pour out, just like our rehit/Sikhi, if we get a

crack in it, slowly we will start doing dhilla. Never compromise. If

anything try to make a stand, that’s all I had intended to do, It’s a shame

that none of the govt bodies or Sikh bodies had contacted me or invited me

to discuss the issue with them, instead make this silly box solution out of

it. But as long as we have the separate window for us to collect is good.

I hope this clears up this misunderstanding

Tarsem Singh

[Sarbloh]

Following is posted for Veer Tarsem Singh:

Vaaheguroojeekakhalsa Vaaheguroojeekifateh

I don’t really post on forums. I’ve only posted through a veer of mine

because, I once posted on Sikh Sangat once before which was a very long time

ago and I don’t remember my password and for some reason when I try to get a

password reminder it doesn’t send it. Also when I attempted to register it

still hasn’t been activated. This is my only resort.

Firstly I would like to clarify I WOULD NEVER consider taking off my

kirpaan, anyone that knows me would know I wouldn’t consider such a thing,

and I really am surprised and shocked at this article. It wouldn’t make

sense because that ‘box thing’ was offered to me when I had been asked to

take it off during my time at the passport office and had refused, so if

that what is offered as a solution, then Sikh Federation and any other

parties involved and Sikhs haven’t gained anything.

Secondly I myself found out about this from a veer who saw it on Sikh

Sangat. Not once have the Home Office contacted me, not once have the

Passport office contacted me neither have any Sikh orgs who have been

liaising with government bodies have contacted me. I had no Idea about this

solution. I had only heard hearsay about Amrithdhaari Singh/Singhnees

having a separate booth to collect their passport (which I think was a good

outcome) In regards to this ‘special box’ I am clueless about this and also

would like to know who agree to such a thing. I am disappointed in the

media in keep using me, when I have no idea about what’s going on. I think

this article was just a media stunt for Wilson Chowdhry (which I am going to

talk to) to get profile as he wants to gain something from this.

I do ardaas that for all our veer/bhens never to consider to take off their

kirpaans or any kakkars. Punj Kakkars are our nishaani of Guroo Gobind

Singh Jee. Saadi rehit ah.

Rehit Piaari Mujhkho Sikh piaara naahi(n)

I remember a singh told me that Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh explained that your

Sikh/Rehit is like a tube filled with liquid if you get a crack in the tube

slowly the liquid will pour out, just like our rehit/Sikhi, if we get a

crack in it, slowly we will start doing dhilla. Never compromise. If

anything try to make a stand, that’s all I had intended to do, It’s a shame

that none of the govt bodies or Sikh bodies had contacted me or invited me

to discuss the issue with them, instead make this silly box solution out of

it. But as long as we have the separate window for us to collect is good.

I hope this clears up this misunderstanding

Tarsem Singh

Thank you for clearing this up. I think Sikhsangat News should provide an update with Veer Tarsem Singh's statement.