Hindu Lady Guru Maa

[Guest Seema Mishra]

I object to the gentleman guest calling Anandmurti Gurumaa a cunning lady. But many facts are unknown to people though they read the religious texts regularly. So things have to be explained to them in their proper perspective. I find no objection in that.

This Hindu lady called Guru Maa was giving a discourse. A Sikh stood up saying to whom does the word Charan (feet) of the Guru refer too, in Gurbani.

She replied "I have a question which will baffle all Sikhs, if only Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Guru, then why did the 5th Guru not give Guruship to it, he's the one who complied it. Why were there 5 more Gurus after him."

She said to meet the God you have to meet an enlightened one. She quoted Brahm Gyani Ki Gat Brahm Gyani Janey.

Of course a very cunning lady, but why do Sikhs attend her discourses and ask these questions.

[Seema Mishra]

This Hindu lady called Guru Maa was giving a discourse. A Sikh stood up saying to whom does the word Charan (feet) of the Guru refer too, in Gurbani.

She replied "I have a question which will baffle all Sikhs, if only Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Guru, then why did the 5th Guru not give Guruship to it, he's the one who complied it. Why were there 5 more Gurus after him."

She said to meet the God you have to meet an enlightened one. She quoted Brahm Gyani Ki Gat Brahm Gyani Janey.

Of course a very cunning lady, but why do Sikhs attend her discourses and ask these questions.

I wish to state that the discourse does not seem to reveal that Gurumaa is a 'cunning lady'. Sometimes it is necessary to explain to people basic things about religious texts which they read everyday but still do not seem to understand. Also, Gurumaa was born a Sikh but is above all religions. To know her well, please listen to her discourses every morning on Sony TV at 6.30PM. Also visit her website www.gurumaa.com for details about her meditation CDs and spiritual retreats, which thousands of devotees, not only from India, but round the world, attend each year.

This Hindu lady called Guru Maa was giving a discourse. A Sikh stood up saying to whom does the word Charan (feet) of the Guru refer too, in Gurbani.

She replied "I have a question which will baffle all Sikhs, if only Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Guru, then why did the 5th Guru not give Guruship to it, he's the one who complied it. Why were there 5 more Gurus after him."

She said to meet the God you have to meet an enlightened one. She quoted Brahm Gyani Ki Gat Brahm Gyani Janey.

Of course a very cunning lady, but why do Sikhs attend her discourses and ask these questions.

[SonyNeech]

I wish to state that the discourse does not seem to reveal that Gurumaa is a 'cunning lady'. Sometimes it is necessary to explain to people basic things about religious texts which they read everyday but still do not seem to understand. Also, Gurumaa was born a Sikh but is above all religions. To know her well, please listen to her discourses every morning on Sony TV at 6.30PM. Also visit her website www.gurumaa.com for details about her meditation CDs and spiritual retreats, which thousands of devotees, not only from India, but round the world, attend each year.

we don't need to listen her.she is totally stupid and anti sikh lady...

we have our TRUE GURU.so we don't need hindu guru maa...mere kol mera baap TRUE GURU hai.

[UKGupt Kaur]

This Hindu lady called Guru Maa was giving a discourse. A Sikh stood up saying to whom does the word Charan (feet) of the Guru refer too, in Gurbani.

- 'Charan' (or 'murat' for example) used in Gurbani refers to Gurbani ie Shabad Guru/Guru jyot.

She replied "I have a question which will baffle all Sikhs, if only Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Guru, then why did the 5th Guru not give Guruship to it, he's the one who complied it. Why were there 5 more Gurus after him."

- Here she is not able to give an answer as it probably contradicts her believes hence the rather 'odd' question.

- She does not either believe or understand the concept of all 10 human Gurus having 1 Jyot. She also does not understand or probably want to believe waheguru's plan to end 'Human' Guruship after Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

She said to meet the God you have to meet an enlightened one. She quoted Brahm Gyani Ki Gat Brahm Gyani Janey.

-Thats her view I guess but mine differs. Akalpurakh is our Satguru (Shabad Guru - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) and a true sadh sangat is what we need. If by chance we meet a genuine brahmgiani thats fine too but not a necessity to hanker after one.

Good read http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart64.htm

Of course a very cunning lady, but why do Sikhs attend her discourses and ask these questions.

- no comment.

[Guest Guest]

simple reply, because the bani of sri guru tegh bahadur singh jee had to be included.

Meeting an enlightened one may help with the journey but that dsnt mean she is the enlightened one due to her questioneing maharaj jee

[SunSingh]

What she's saying is that the charan of the Guru are the feet of a bhramgyani. This is true, as Gurbani explicitly tells us that there is no difference between the Guru and bhramgyani. There is also meaning that charan of Guru is shabad. Both are correct as Gurbani has multiple levels of meaning (which is different from saying that everybody's interpretation is correct).

For more on what a bhramgyani does on this path, and the benefits of their sangat see the thread entitled: do sants exist?

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=36921&hl=

[UKGupt Kaur]

What she's saying is that the charan of the Guru are the feet of a bhramgyani.

Please give the relevant shabad to the above.

As far as I understand, "Charan (feet) of the Guru" should be understood in the spiritual context not literal.

For eg:

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=574

This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 190 gauVI mhlw 5 ] gourree mehalaa 5 ||

Gauree, Fifth Mehla:

rwiK lIAw guir pUrY Awip ] raakh leeaa gur poorai aap ||

The Perfect Guru Himself has saved me.

mnmuK kau lwgo sMqwpu ]1] manamukh ko laago sa(n)thaap ||1||

The self-willed manmukhs are afflicted with misfortune. ||1||

gurU gurU jip mIq hmwry ] guroo guroo jap meeth hamaarae ||

Chant and meditate on the Guru, the Guru, O my friend.

muK aUjl hovih drbwry ]1] rhwau ] mukh oojal hovehi dharabaarae ||1|| rehaao ||

Your face shall be radiant in the Court of the Lord. ||1||Pause||

gur ky crx ihrdY vswie ] gur kae charan hiradhai vasaae ||

Enshrine the Feet of the Guru within your heart;

duK dusmn qyrI hqY blwie ]2] dhukh dhusaman thaeree hathai balaae ||2||

your pains, enemies and bad luck shall be destroyed. ||2||

gur kw sbdu qyrY sMig shweI ] gur kaa sabadh thaerai sa(n)g sehaaee ||

The Word of the Guru's Shabad is your Companion and Helper.

dieAwl Bey sgly jIA BweI ]3] dhaeiaal bheae sagalae jeea bhaaee ||3||

O Siblings of Destiny, all beings shall be kind to you. ||3||

guir pUrY jb ikrpw krI ] gur poorai jab kirapaa karee ||

When the Perfect Guru granted His Grace,

Bniq nwnk myrI pUrI prI ]4]54]123] bhanath naanak maeree pooree paree ||4||54||123||

says Nanak, I was totally, completely fulfilled. ||4||54||123||

or

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=327This Shabad is by Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Maajh on Pannaa 113 mwJ mhlw 3 ] maajh mehalaa 3 ||

Maajh, Third Mehla:

AMimRq bwxI gur kI mITI ] a(n)mrith baanee gur kee meet(h)ee ||

The Nectar of the Guru's Bani is very sweet.

gurmuiK ivrlY iknY ciK fITI ] guramukh viralai kinai chakh ddeet(h)ee ||

Rare are the Gurmukhs who see and taste it.

AMqir prgwsu mhw rsu pIvY dir scY sbdu vjwvixAw ]1] a(n)thar paragaas mehaa ras peevai dhar sachai sabadh vajaavaniaa ||1||

The Divine Light dawns within, and the supreme essence is found. In the True Court, the Word of the Shabad vibrates. ||1||

hau vwrI jIau vwrI gur crxI icqu lwvixAw ] ho vaaree jeeo vaaree gur charanee chith laavaniaa ||

I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to those who focus their consciousness on the Guru's Feet.

siqguru hY AMimRq sru swcw mnu nwvY mYlu cukwvixAw ]1] rhwau ] sathigur hai a(n)mrith sar saachaa man naavai mail chukaavaniaa ||1|| rehaao ||

The True Guru is the True Pool of Nectar; bathing in it, the mind is washed clean of all filth. ||1||Pause||

qyrw scy iknY AMqu n pwieAw ] thaeraa sachae kinai a(n)th n paaeiaa ||

Your limits, O True Lord, are not known to anyone.

gur prswid iknY ivrlY icqu lwieAw ] gur parasaadh kinai viralai chith laaeiaa ||

Rare are those who, by Guru's Grace, focus their consciousness on You.

quDu swlwih n rjw kbhUM scy nwvY kI BuK lwvixAw ]2] thudhh saalaahi n rajaa kabehoo sachae naavai kee bhukh laavaniaa ||2||

Praising You, I am never satisfied; such is the hunger I feel for the True Name. ||2||

eyko vyKw Avru n bIAw ] eaeko vaekhaa avar n beeaa ||

I see only the One, and no other.

gur prswdI AMimRqu pIAw ] gur parasaadhee a(n)mrith peeaa ||

By Guru's Grace, I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar.

gur kY sbid iqKw invwrI shjy sUiK smwvixAw ]3] gur kai sabadh thikhaa nivaaree sehajae sookh samaavaniaa ||3||

My thirst is quenched by the Word of the Guru's Shabad; I am absorbed in intuitive peace and poise. ||3||

rqnu pdwrQu plir iqAwgY ] rathan padhaarathh palar thiaagai ||

The Priceless Jewel is discarded like straw;

mnmuKu AMDw dUjY Bwie lwgY ] manamukh a(n)dhhaa dhoojai bhaae laagai ||

the blind self-willed manmukhs are attached to the love of duality.

jo bIjY soeI Plu pwey supnY suKu n pwvixAw ]4] jo beejai soee fal paaeae supanai sukh n paavaniaa ||4||

As they plant, so do they harvest. They shall not obtain peace, even in their dreams. ||4||

ApnI ikrpw kry soeI jnu pwey ] apanee kirapaa karae soee jan paaeae ||

Those who are blessed with His Mercy find the Lord.

gur kw sbdu mMin vswey ] gur kaa sabadh ma(n)n vasaaeae ||

The Word of the Guru's Shabad abides in the mind.

Anidnu sdw rhY BY AMdir BY mwir Brmu cukwvixAw ]5] anadhin sadhaa rehai bhai a(n)dhar bhai maar bharam chukaavaniaa ||5||

Night and day, they remain in the Fear of God; conquering their fears, their doubts are dispelled. ||5||

Brmu cukwieAw sdw suKu pwieAw ] bharam chukaaeiaa sadhaa sukh paaeiaa ||

Dispelling their doubts, they find a lasting peace.

gur prswid prm pdu pwieAw ] gur parasaadh param padh paaeiaa ||

By Guru's Grace, the supreme status is attained.

AMqru inrmlu inrml bwxI hir gux shjy gwvixAw ]6] a(n)thar niramal niramal baanee har gun sehajae gaavaniaa ||6||

Deep within, they are pure, and their words are pure as well; intuitively, they sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||6||

isimRiq swsq byd vKwxY ] simrith saasath baedh vakhaanai ||

They recite the Simritees, the Shaastras and the Vedas,

Brmy BUlw qqu n jwxY ] bharamae bhoolaa thath n jaanai ||

but deluded by doubt, they do not understand the essence of reality.

ibnu siqgur syvy suKu n pwey duKo duKu kmwvixAw ]7] bin sathigur saevae sukh n paaeae dhukho dhukh kamaavaniaa ||7||

Without serving the True Guru, they find no peace; they earn only pain and misery. ||7||

Awip kry iksu AwKY koeI ] aap karae kis aakhai koee ||

The Lord Himself acts; unto whom should we complain?

AwKix jweIAY jy BUlw hoeI ] aakhan jaaeeai jae bhoolaa hoee ||

How can anyone complain that the Lord has made a mistake?

nwnk Awpy kry krwey nwmy nwim smwvixAw ]8]7]8] naanak aapae karae karaaeae naamae naam samaavaniaa ||8||7||8||

O Nanak, the Lord Himself does, and causes things to be done; chanting the Naam, we are absorbed in the Naam. ||8||7||8||

She said to meet the God you have to meet an enlightened one.

Complete shabad on panna 231 http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?word...ge&page=231

ਸਹਜੇ ਗੁਣ ਰਵਹਿ ਸਾਚੇ ਮਨ ਮਾਹੀ ॥੭॥

sehajae gun ravehi saachae man maahee ||7||

They intuitively savor the Glories of the True Lord within their minds. ||7||

6 Gaurhee Guru Amar Das ਪੂਰੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ॥

poorai sathigur sabadh sunaaeiaa ||

The Perfect True Guru has revealed the Shabad;

7 Gaurhee Guru Amar Das ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮੇਟੇ ਚਉਥੈ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇਆ ॥

thrai gun maettae chouthhai chith laaeiaa ||

it eradicates the three qualities, and attunes the consciousness to the fourth state.

7 Gaurhee Guru Amar Das ਨਾਨਕ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥੮॥੪॥

naanak houmai maar breham milaaeiaa ||8||4||

O Nanak, subduing egotism, one is absorbed into God. ||8||4||

or

Complete shabad on panna 941 http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?book...941&submit=

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਰਚੈ ਤਰੀਐ ਤਾਰੀ ॥

guramukh parachai thareeai thaaree ||

Pleasing the True Guru, the Gurmukh is carried across.

6 Raamkalee Guru Nanak Dev ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਰਚੈ ਸੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

guramukh parachai s sabadh giaanee ||

Pleasing the True Guru, the Gurmukh receives the spiritual wisdom of the Shabad.

7 Raamkalee Guru Nanak Dev ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਰਚੈ ਅੰਤਰ ਬਿਧਿ ਜਾਨੀ ॥

guramukh parachai anthar bidhh jaanee ||

Pleasing the True Guru, the Gurmukh comes to know the path within.

7 Raamkalee Guru Nanak Dev ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥

guramukh paaeeai alakh apaar ||

The Gurmukh attains the unseen and infinite Lord.

7 Raamkalee Guru Nanak Dev ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥੨੮॥

naanak guramukh mukath dhuaar ||28||

O Nanak, the Gurmukh finds the door of liberation. ||28||

8 Raamkalee Guru Nanak Dev ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਅਕਥੁ ਕਥੈ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ॥

guramukh akathh kathhai beechaar ||

The Gurmukh speaks the unspoken wisdom.

8 Raamkalee Guru Nanak Dev ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਿਬਹੈ ਸਪਰਵਾਰਿ ॥

guramukh nibehai saparavaar ||

In the midst of his family, the Gurmukh lives a spiritual life.

[Pheena]

I wish to state that the discourse does not seem to reveal that Gurumaa is a 'cunning lady'. Sometimes it is necessary to explain to people basic things about religious texts which they read everyday but still do not seem to understand. Also, Gurumaa was born a Sikh but is above all religions. To know her well, please listen to her discourses every morning on Sony TV at 6.30PM. Also visit her website www.gurumaa.com for details about her meditation CDs and spiritual retreats, which thousands of devotees, not only from India, but round the world, attend each year.

we don't need to listen her.she is totally stupid and anti sikh lady...

we have our TRUE GURU.so we don't need hindu guru maa...mere kol mera baap TRUE GURU hai.

What are you talkign about??? Where in her post did she even remotely covney a position where she was placing GuruMaa ahead of the Gurus which would lead you to reply that you don't need GuruMaa and further create ignorant remaks by calling her stupid and anti-sikh???

[Guru_Da_Chella]

what gives us the right to call someone sikh or non-sikh? Is someone who follows Guru Ji not a sikh of Guru Ji?

[SunSingh]

No, what I'm saying is that Gurumaa is saying that bhramgyani's feet are what's meant by the Guru's charan. This is 100% true, as is saying that the Guru's charan are metaphorical and refer to the shabad. both are correct.

The relevant shabad is in Sukhmani sahib, where it states that a bhramgyani, god and Guru are one and the same.

For more info see this thread http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...21&hl=sants