Non-sikhs Getting Married In Gurdwaras

[Akaali]

Come on Heera Singh you know better man. You shouldn't say "you people are freakin ridiculous." this is sangat we're talking about and there are good and bad people in sangat, doesn't mean they are ridiculous because of their views. (I'm not calling machete a bad person)

Sikhi is all about accepting everyone with open arms, and showing them the love and acceptance that Guru Nanak Sahib would show, and he's not different than Guru Gobind Singh Sahib jee.

Here's some gurmat, Guru Sahib would definetely give his blessings if someone came to him with shardhaa and pyaar. But would he love you and bless you as his gursikh, like his own son? I don't think so, he would say you have bowed to my feet but do you accept me as your Guru? If you want my blessings would you do anything for it? Would you give your head? If you put it in context and today, would you take amrit?

Guru Sahib says:

mahalla 4 ||

Fourth Mehla:

poorae gur kaa hukam n ma(n)nai ouhu manamukh agiaan mut(h)aa bikh maaeiaa ||

One who does not obey the Hukam, the Command of the Perfect Guru - that self-willed manmukh is plundered by his ignorance and poisoned by Maya.

ous a(n)dhar koorr koorro kar bujhai anehodhae jhagarrae dhay ous dhai gal paaeiaa ||

Within him is falsehood, and he sees everyone else as false; the Lord has tied these useless conflicts around his neck.

ouhu gal farosee karae bahuthaeree ous dhaa boliaa kisai n bhaaeiaa ||

He babbles on and on, but the words he speaks please no one.

ouhu ghar ghar ha(n)dtai jio ra(n)n dhuohaagan ous naal muhu jorrae ous bhee lashhan laaeiaa ||

He wanders from house to house like an abandoned woman; whoever associates with him is stained by the mark of evil as well.

guramukh hoe s alipatho varathai ous dhaa paas shhadd gur paas behi jaaeiaa ||

Those who become Gurmukh avoid him; they forsake his company and sit hear the Guru.

jo gur gopae aapanaa s bhalaa naahee pa(n)chahu oun laahaa mool sabh gavaaeiaa ||

O chosen people, O self-elect, one who does not publicly affirm his Guru is not a good person; he loses all his profits and capital.

pehilaa aagam nigam naanak aakh sunaaeae poorae gur kaa bachan oupar aaeiaa ||

People used to chant and recite the Shaastras and the Vedas, O Nanak, but now the Words of the Perfect Guru have come to be the most exalted of all.

gurasikhaa vaddiaaee bhaavai gur poorae kee manamukhaa ouh vaelaa hathh n aaeiaa ||2||

The glorious greatness of the Perfect Guru is pleasing to the GurSikh; the self-willed manmukhs have lost this opportunity. ||2||

I agree we all have to look within ourselves, no-one is perfect, we all have faults no matter if we keep strict daily amritvela, proper rehat and everything we still won't be perfect, we will still have the biggest faults and without his blessings we would get consumed by our own ego in doing it. But like Bhai Parwinder Singh said, its about accepting the will of Guru Sahib and GURMAT, not MANMAT, and only use Guru Sahib when he's needed like at the time of birth, marriage, or death, rest of your life you can do what you want.

My two cents.

[TRUE LION OF PUNJAB]

u see the problem comes here, in the laava u make certain vows. its saya that u must accept guru ji as true guru and also that u must recite gurbani i think. but if u r not a sikh then u r lying before guru granth sahib ji if u kno wat i mean. thats why in order to hav anand karaj without disrespecting guru ji u shud be a sikh? is that not correct? because ovawise u will not reciet gurubani nor will u accept guru ji as true guru.

example, if ur a christian u see jesus as ur messiah or wateva and u do not accept guru ji as true guru. yeh? so if a christian was to hav anand karaj he wud be disrespecting maharaj because he is lying wen doing laava and recieting vows. isnt this correct??

if a sikh wants to marry a non sikh then that is up to them. but wudnt having anand karaj be disrespectful to maharaj??

[Heera Singh]

talikhaak is absolutely right in his comment towards me... so i want to publically apologize for my remarks that i made.. like i said, i was really irritated when i said dat, so i wasn't in da right frame of mind.. so please everybody forgive mi...

that being said... i dun tink nebody has the capacity or even the right to predict what Guru Sahib would say ... remember our Guru's work in wonderous ways... our Gurus show immense love to EVERYBODY regardless of race, religion, gender etc...

this is a very iffy topic to discuss.. because u hafta remember, if a sikh man or woman is gettin married, of course they wud wanna marry in front of Guru Sahib.. so wud we wanna deny a sikh to get blessings from his or her Guru, even if their marriage partner was not of the same faith? at da end of da day, i tink i's between da couple.. if they decide to marry at a Gurdwara... den we shud accept it...

and the point remains... nobody has addressed my above comment about the 'punjabis' who marry at the gurdwara on a weekly basis... i mean, go to Dixie gurdwara in toronto on any saturday and ur almost guaranteed to see 2 or 3 weddings... n chances are almost every weddin u'll see, the bride n groom are nah followin sikhi, n i's a big lavish weddin where people are more concerned more bout wha their wearin then Guru Sahib...

if we're gonna sit here n talk bout 'non sikhs shud'nt be allowed to do lavaa', then le's start within our own community...

[Sikh4Life]

Your right we should look at ourselves. But when something like this is going on in the Gurudwara and our community isnt saying anything then Heera is right.

In the USA I've been going to the Gurudwara on 118st on Atlantic Ave, Queens for Years.

My mom and dad have been there since they have come to THIS country. So, I've been going with them until I was old enough to choose. Also, Since now or when I was "Old" enough to know about Gurudwara I've still gone and sat and listen. I have been talking to my dad and me and him always talk about what They say at Gurudwara.

Everything they say, only some people take in. Im pointing this out because most of us don't realize we just sit there and sometimes dont listen. It is like sitting at home without tv, friends, family, or anything.

I have on countless occasions just sat there and dazed off. For this im not proud of myself. But im working towards it.

Also about being perfect no ONE is. I myself have Cut Hair. Im proud of Sikhi and being a SIKH. But, my hair cut was nor my choice. I was 5 and mom had no choice because she had no one to help her. Dad was always at work at night and sleeping in mourning. Mom had stuff around house and Work during Day. I went to Kindergarten with a "judra"(spelling bad, sorry). I was proud of seeing this baby picture. But, on the first day, being in this IGNORANT and Racist country, My mom was called and bothered for 2 months about me crying about my hair being pulled. Some of it actually got PULLED out. Which for a 5 yr old is PAIN. My mom argured with the school but they couldnt do anything. Kids in this country aren't raised knowing how to treat others.

Meaning, when a little kid goes to a knife the parent says no, sometimes even a slap on the hand and the kid knows not to touch that. But, with people, kid's are tought nothing. About no Hitting or etc.

Anyway, Im not a fully praticing sikh. I will be "Baptised" when I leave college in 5 years(Senior in High School). I am planning to go to india one week after college for Graduration im leaving. I will go back to parents home and spend a few months or even year(s) to fulfill myself.

I btw have my Beard in, uncut and PROUD of it. Only thing im not proud of is hair. I will grow it out, even thou it is not the same, hope guru ji will see my mom either had to Quit job and give up apartment, we live in NY A decent apartment back in the day was really TOO much and still is. My parents Kill themselves working 70 hours to get by with just rent and electric bills. I pay for Tv and Internet because im a Computer Major.

I didnt want my parents to live in the "slums or ghetto". I am fine with where we live. We live in Queens near Flushing. Great apartment with "balcony" on 5th floor of a 10 floor building.

Anyway, my point is, if you see it, atleast say something, but ONLY if you yourself are NOT the same. If you are, just let it go, because before you Critize others, Check yourself.

Cheers,

-Sikh.