Usage of satguru phrase and status of krishan in gurbani

[Bijla Singh]

If sant jagjit singh ji is wrong when he said krishan, raam was hari avtar of vahiguroo then by the same token- vaddie vaddaie mahapursh- sant jawala singh ji harkhowale, sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale, sant sunder singh ji bhindranwale in your humble opnion were wrong too ?? This beleive is just not made up by sant jagjit singh ji this is always been common beleif within samparda's.

Belief needs reasoning. I have read Sant Gurbachan Singh’s jeevani and it states that Sant Ji once saw millions of krishan, raam and shivas in the sky. If you have any recording or written reference of Sants claiming that these hindu deities are in Sachkhand then I would like to have it. Gurbani says there are thousands of krishnas not one. They failed to guide the humanity. Sant Gurbachan Singh and Sant Sundar Singh were hindu sadhus in previous birth and did immense amount of kamayee but had to take birth in Sikhi, get naam and get muktee. You need to think about why that is? Why take one last birth in Sikhi? Hindu saint who spent 125 years in hindu rituals and meditation revealed to his close student that he will have to take one last birth, become a Sikh and then get salvation. Sikhi is superior to all other paths because Guru Nanak Sahib is the greatest of all.

Anyway, few questions to you: if you think sikhi is only way and sachkhand is only limited to amritdhari gursikhs:

Sikhi is for everyone. Anyone who obtained naam from Guru Sahib has reached Sachkhand eventually.

1. When you read gurbani lot of times you hear about chatha paad- turiya avastha(spiritual orders in hinduism, and islam talks about this too but in form of valley, look below)? This turiya avastha that sri guru maharaj is talking about is that only invented by sri guru nanak dev ji when they took physical birth or always been there? [hope you research on this before you answer this one]

2. When you read gurbani lot of times there is mention regarding- Dasam Dwara being adobe of amrit, is this newly invented by sri guru nanak dev when they took physical birth? or always been there?

Philosophy of Gurmat is unique. Dasam Duar, reincarnation and anhad naad are very different in Gurmat then in Hinduism. In Sikhi, such spiritual stages are very high and hindus fall very below it. Because of hard abhiyaas they achieve something but due to lack of Satguru they don’t reach Sachkhand and misinterpret their experiences. What Guru Sahib revealed is far above the imagination and experiences of hindu sadhus.

- did satguru nanak dev ji as nirankari jot came in satyug physically to the earth gave charan amrit-outer intiation to the bhagats from satyug, dvapar, treta, kalyug?

From my understanding and sangat of Gursikhs, I learned that Guru Sahib did kirpa on selected bhagats and revealed naam to them. Keeping unshorn hair was a norm in those societies as was in early Christians and Muslims. As bhagats did bhagtee they rose above societal rituals. When Bhai Randhir Singh was in jail, he met an arya samaji who was dying painfully and wanted to be saved. Bhai Sahib expressed his inability to give naam as this authority only belongs to the Guru or Panj Pyare. So he did ardaas and after a while saw a constable doing swas swas. When asked he said that the arya samaji was doing the same. So when Gursikhs do ardaas, Guru Sahib reveals naam to individuals. There is also another story written in Gursikh Jeevan. Bhai Veer Singh Ji also did ardaas for one person who was about to die. Bhai Sahib did ardaas and went home to sleep. During the dream he saw that the person had died and was in bliss. Guru Sahib had revealed naam to him and was saved. I don’t know if they reached sachkhand or were required to take Amrit by taking one last birth. Only Guru Sahib knows. But these cases are very rare. Most bhagats did not reach sachkhand but only those to whom Guru Sahib revealed naam.

When Guru Sahib was doing seva of Santokhsar Gurdwara, an old saint was found who had been sitting there for ages. He was dug out of the ground and asked if Guru Nanak had appeared on the earth. Upon seeing Guru Arjan Sahib, he received naam and died. He reached sachkhand. Naam from Satguru is the only savior. There is only one Satguru.

What do you have to say about Raja Janak who existed long time before Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Bhai Gurdas ji describes him as:

As explained, there is no such thing as “before Guru Nanak Sahib”. Vaar 10 gives description of stories of bhagats. The main point is the last line of each pauri. Every bhagat became mukat because of naam. For example, Bhagat Dhanna Ji did bhagtee and sangat and became mukat. This is what Gurbani claims. Bhai Gurdas Ji first gives the folklore story (idol worship) and then explains the reality in the last line. Last line of pauri 5 explains that everything is under control of Naam. No where does Bhai Sahib mention that Naam can be obtained from anyone. Bhai Gurdas Ji states that Guru Sahib is the greatest and the only Satguru, giver of Naam. If Janak became mukat then it has to be because Guru Sahib revealed naam to him. Humans are not capable of that. Satguru is forever and ever. Human Guru cannot be a true Guru.

By saying Satguru nanak dev ji is only and only true Guru out of all the guru's we had in all the yugs, one still has dvaish(partiality) which restricts one's mindset to accept other bhagats, bhramgyani also had in the past merge with that higher reality and became also nirankari jot. Having that kind of mindset is against Gurmat Advait Sidhant, open doors to - Sharia sikhi.

You have failed to explain who else has the statue of Satguru according to Gurmat? Show me Gurbani or Vaar reference. If Bhai Gurdas Ji and Bhatts say that Guru Nanak is the greatest then why do you have narrow mind to accept it? Equating Guru Sahib to other prophets is highly ignorant.

As gurbani talks- sooraj eko rot enek ||

This panktee has no relevance to the topic.

Its one nirgun paratma, nirgun paratma to benefit human kind transcedents itself into avtars- hari avtar, narsing avtar, nit avtars, avnit avtars, aveshya avtars. From avtars came each dharam. How could you say other school of thought which focuses on naam simran (islam- they call it dhikr, hindus call it aum, christian call it god) is wrong which sri guru arjan dev ji himself said:

srb Drm mih sRyst Drmu ]

sarab dhharam mehi sraesatt dhharam ||

Of all religions, the best religion

hir ko nwmu jip inrml krmu ]

har ko naam jap niramal karam ||

is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.

Naam can only be obtained from Satguru. Show me where Gurbani says that Mohammad, Jesus or other hindu avtars have the same status? Dhikr in Islam is not naam. Dhikr is simply picking any word you wish and chanting it. Obtaining Naam is different. It is obtained from Satguru, a way to become guru wala and learning the technique from the Guru. If Hindus can reach the same stage then why start Sikhi at first place? Why didn’t Guru Sahib just practice the previous ways and preached them? The best religion is to chant Naam. This Naam is given by Satguru Nanak Sahib only. I can give many quotes from Gurbani to prove this. Only Gurmantar is the most powerful. Other names are not. Waheguru is the greatest naam and most powerful.

Here is the glimpse in Islam level of spirituality..Muslim holy saints divide the whole ascent into seven valleys-

1. Valley of Search(Wadde-a-Tallash)

2. Valley of Love (Wadee-a-Ishaq)

3. Valley of Knowledge (Wadeea-Marfat)

4. Valley of meditation or Ibadat (Wadee-a-Mehveat)

5. Valley of Unity (Wadee-Wehdeeat)

6. Valley of Bliss (Wadee-a-Noor or Wadee-a-Hairam)

7. Valley of merger in God or Allah (Wadee-A-Finah-Fillah)

Show me above levels written in Quran or Hadiths. 7th layer of sky is paradise in Islam where rivers of wine and milk flow and “believers” are given 72 virgins and sex slaves. Don’t even bother to insult Sikhi with your low intellect. Go ask any of your Sants if they wish to give up Gurmat and follow Hindu or Islamic way to reach Sachkhand? If other religions can give you what Gurmat does then Sikhs in 18th century would’ve given up Sikhi. No one wants to have price put of his head for no reason. Sikhi is superior which is why Bhai Shabeg Singh refused to even say that he wasn’t a Sikh. Your thoughts give excuses to people to give up Sikhi. Why should someone become a Sikh if muktee is obtained from other religions as well? What is so special about it? Guru Sahib rejected Islam and Hinduism because these religions failed to guide the humanity. Guru Sahib appeared and ignorance propagated by other religions had disappeared and vanished.

Now, it’s your turn to provide answers to my questions raised in this and previous posts. Based it on Gurbani. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[N30S1NGH]

Belief needs reasoning. I have read Sant Gurbachan Singh’s jeevani and it states that Sant Ji once saw millions of krishan, raam and shivas in the sky. If you have any recording or written reference of Sants claiming that these hindu deities are in Sachkhand then I would like to have it. Gurbani says there are thousands of krishnas not one. They failed to guide the humanity. Sant Gurbachan Singh and Sant Sundar Singh were hindu sadhus in previous birth and did immense amount of kamayee but had to take birth in Sikhi, get naam and get muktee. You need to think about why that is? Why take one last birth in Sikhi? Hindu saint who spent 125 years in hindu rituals and meditation revealed to his close student that he will have to take one last birth, become a Sikh and then get salvation. Sikhi is superior to all other paths because Guru Nanak Sahib is the greatest of all.

Regarding seeing millions of krishnas: mukht karak bhramgyani sargun saroop of vahiguroo in the hakum of vahiguroo is fully capable to transcedent itself into many. At the end, this is no where as to be seen or prove that krishan maharaj was any less avastha than sri guru nanak dev ji.

I have recording with sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale, in sikh academia(taksal) they are very well know and well respected.

http://www.gurmarag.net/SikhAwareness/Audi...ecture%2011.wav

fwd to 12:45- too see what he had to say about krishan maharaj.

Gyani thakur singh ji who was a student of sant kartar singh ji bhindranwale who was the student of sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale that you like to quote talks about same krishna in the japji sahib katha which i managed to translate earlier when i translated japji sahib katha:

Once Arjun asked krishan ji show me your vairaat saroop. Then Krishan showed his saroop . It huge saroop in which 7 ethers/sky are consider isher (head), 7 patals are consider his feets, vital force system is consider his nostrils, chand(moon) and sooraj(sun) are considered his eyes. His heart is considered as Vishnu and bhram and shiv are considerd his two hands. All nadis(oceans) are consider his veins and all the mountains are consider his bones and all the nature are considered his praticles(rom).

If krishan maharaj can have this samartha while he was in physical form, transceding into vairaat saroop of vahiguroo then one can imagine his avastha when he leaves physical body. You pick and choose lot of things from sant gurbachan singh ji jeevani, have you ever read japji sahib teeka by sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale, if you did you wouldnt have this audaicy to compare krishan maharaj with mere devi/devta's. First pana you flip up in the teeka, talks about six kind of avtars, where guru maharaj being guru avtar, krishan maharaj being hari sargun avtar of vahiguroo.

Regarding, sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale and sant sunder singh ji being hindu sadhu, i do not doubt. There is no ban in the dargah, that amritdhari sikh should be only amritdhari sikh in his next life. What i really doubt, how you made the story they had to take gurmat naam to get mukhti.

do you even know what naam is?

Naam is in us- Nau nidh amrit prab ka naam, dehi meh iska bisraam.

Its the shabad that is used to awaken that naam.

Nevertheless, if you wish to prove your point that sant gurbachan singh ji/sant sunder singh ji had to come back to take gurmat naam and get mukhti because they were hindu sadhu, obviously for you hindu sadhu has to be inferior because he doesnt have gurmat naam, lets go even one step further then - sri guru gobind singh ji was dusat daman- hindu sadhu in his previous life as tapavasi hindu sadhu, do you have audacity to tell the sangat dusat daman wasnt mukht and had to come back as sri guru gobind singh ji had to take gurmat naam to get mukhti ?

Sikhi is for everyone. Anyone who obtained naam from Guru Sahib has reached Sachkhand eventually.

Off course sri guru nanak dev ji updesh is for everyone, and have to obtain naam from guru , you see only difference is you translate guru into only sri guru nanak dev ji which sri guru nanak dev ji and other guru patsah never intented to do.

I translate guru according to damdami taksal, and other samparda, quoting again from gyani thakur singh ji katha on japji sahib- here sri guru nanak dev ji explaining arth of guru to sidhas:

Gur means Chaitan saroop(exist everywhere/sarab vaipakh yet non-existent nirgun).

Gu means agyan daie hanraie(darkness because of ignorance) and r/ru means light. Bringing being from darkness to light is called Gur/ru.

Gur akhar derived from Gir Akhar. Gir means Negating. eg- guru negates sikh gyan (three context of guru).

-

Three context of guru/satguru mentioned in gurbani:

Satguru/ Guru from adyatamic aspect(spiritual) refers to aad sach jugud sach hai bhi sach nanak sahib says - he will ever truth(nanak hosi bhi sach).

Sri Guru Gobind Singh says: Aad Ant Eke Avtara So Guru Samjheo Hamara ||

Satguru/Guru from socio-religious aspect depending on different dharam, its anyone who is merged with Vahiguroo, who has realized paratma, merged in turiya avastha, rose above from all vikars, three gunas, panj gyan indrie, panj karam inderaie, panj tat, panj kosh is Guru, be it from any mat. - Look into bhagat bani rachna, if you read bani by them, guru is reffered to akaal purkh and also refer to their vidya/atamik gurdev.

Satguru/Guru from socio religious aspect in Sikhi is defaniately without any question- Satguru Nanak Dev ji.

Philosophy of Gurmat is unique. Dasam Duar, reincarnation and anhad naad are very different in Gurmat then in Hinduism. In Sikhi, such spiritual stages are very high and hindus fall very below it. Because of hard abhiyaas they achieve something but due to lack of Satguru they don’t reach Sachkhand and misinterpret their experiences. What Guru Sahib revealed is far above the imagination and experiences of hindu sadhus.

Problem with you bijla singh, you have zap knowledge about other spiritual traditions in hinduism yet you find absoultely ok with disrespect them. Balleh Shera, vada guru vala bainya tu.

Topic of dasam dwaur, there are two main ways hindu saints get to dasam dwara.

One way is yogi way, what yogi - According to yog mat, their usage of ong/oam kar- When they recite ong, ong, ong. With their breath using Ira(left nostril vein), Pingla (right nostril vein), Sukhmana (Center vein which connect ira and pingla together). Using Ira Vein yogis inhale while recite recite ong ong 12 times with their breath and they stop their breath while reciting 16 times ong ong then they bring it down while reciting ong ong 12 times and exhale it and the same procedure is followed while they recite it with pingla(right nostril vein) this helps them to take their breath to tenth door( dasam dwar), they get yoga anand which is different then actual bhram anand(which we sikhs aim for).

However their 2nd way to dasam dwara, is exactly same as gurmat- Shabad Surat Yog/Marg:

Instead of pran which is used in yogmat, they use shabad abhyas to take their surati above in dasam dwar.

source: http://spirits_quest.tripod.com/Sos_SSY.htm

* Surat-Shabda Yoga

This is the complete ‘mother’ yoga of Spirituality which is comprehensive and all-encompassing of all other yogas. It has 3 components: 1. ‘Remembrance’ (‘Sumiran’) of the verbalizable 5 names of the ‘Dhanis’ (rulers) of the 5 inner kingdoms or planes, in sequence. The purpose is to still the mind, which is like an ever-active monkey. By repetition of these names with the ‘tongue of thought’, mind is distracted from forming thoughts other than that of God, much as the proverbial genie is controlled by repeatedly climbing a pole up and down. 2. Concentration on inner Light (‘Dhyana’), which commences as soon as Sumiran matures. These two exercises use the spiritual faculty of ‘Nirat’ or ‘inner vision’. By this, the attention is anchored and does not slip. 3. Concentration on inner Sound (‘Bhajan’ or ‘Kirtan’) which permits the spirit to rise and travel in the inner domains

Since when reincarnation and karam is only limited to sikhs?, its unique concept shared by all eastern religions- buddhist, hindus, sikhs, jains.

From my understanding and sangat of Gursikhs, I learned that Guru Sahib did kirpa on selected bhagats and revealed naam to them. Keeping unshorn hair was a norm in those societies as was in early Christians and Muslims. As bhagats did bhagtee they rose above societal rituals. When Bhai Randhir Singh was in jail, he met an arya samaji who was dying painfully and wanted to be saved. Bhai Sahib expressed his inability to give naam as this authority only belongs to the Guru or Panj Pyare. So he did ardaas and after a while saw a constable doing swas swas. When asked he said that the arya samaji was doing the same. So when Gursikhs do ardaas, Guru Sahib reveals naam to individuals. There is also another story written in Gursikh Jeevan. Bhai Veer Singh Ji also did ardaas for one person who was about to die. Bhai Sahib did ardaas and went home to sleep. During the dream he saw that the person had died and was in bliss. Guru Sahib had revealed naam to him and was saved. I don’t know if they reached sachkhand or were required to take Amrit by taking one last birth. Only Guru Sahib knows. But these cases are very rare. Most bhagats did not reach sachkhand but only those to whom Guru Sahib revealed naam.

- If guru sahib did kirpa on selected bhagats and revealed naam to them, i asked again in which form? via their gurdev?, also which naam? they already were in turiya avastha by doing abhyaas of naam given by their gurdev as you find by their rachna included in sri guru granth sahib ji.

One thing i have learned being in the sangat of mahapursh instead of tottagyanis is - its not which shabad as you call it naam it matters, but your faith and your abhyaas.

- Which naam parlad recited on? Which naam bhagat kabir recited on? Which naam bhagat pipa, bhagat ramanand, bhagat trilochan, gangka papan, ajamal,ravidas, namdev recited on?

I really highly doubt they were all- Vahiguroo which is tottaly contary to what their jevani and their rachna in sri guru granth sahib talks about.

When Guru Sahib was doing seva of Santokhsar Gurdwara, an old saint was found who had been sitting there for ages. He was dug out of the ground and asked if Guru Nanak had appeared on the earth. Upon seeing Guru Arjan Sahib, he received naam and died. He reached sachkhand. Naam from Satguru is the only savior. There is only one Satguru.

I have read this sakhi from soraj parkash granth, i cannot beleive how you twisted this sakhi by adding your mirch masala about giving naam..lol..this is too much. is that all you tat khalsa good for- editing, adding mirch masala.

Here is the sakhi- This sadhu was jevan mukht but not vedah mukht, his surati was in nirvakalap samdhi where is just vismaad just acharaj. Because he was in nirvkalap samadhi, his body was getting all the nourshiment. Sri Guru Arjan dev ji was choosen by akaal purkh to do kirpa on him, not giving him naam but "bringing his surat down, so that guru ji can ask what he wanted". First guru sahib, asked sikhs to bring him out very very very carefully, his body was soo fragile that he would break into peaces, then guru ji sat in meditation to bring his surati down, at that point, guru ji asked what he wanted? he said i have been in nirvakalap samadhi for soo long now please do kirpa on me and give me vedah mukht avastha, at that point guru ji silenced him by his abhyas, gave him vedah mukht avastha.

Your sakhi of him receiving shabad naam doesnt make sense at all, this guy was in nirvakalap samadh which is above from any shabad akar, any naam, why da flipping hell he would receive gurmat naam when he was already in nirvkalap samadhi and jevan mukht?.

As explained, there is no such thing as “before Guru Nanak Sahib”. Vaar 10 gives description of stories of bhagats. The main point is the last line of each pauri. Every bhagat became mukat because of naam. For example, Bhagat Dhanna Ji did bhagtee and sangat and became mukat. This is what Gurbani claims. Bhai Gurdas Ji first gives the folklore story (idol worship) and then explains the reality in the last line. Last line of pauri 5 explains that everything is under control of Naam. No where does Bhai Sahib mention that Naam can be obtained from anyone. Bhai Gurdas Ji states that Guru Sahib is the greatest and the only Satguru, giver of Naam. If Janak became mukat then it has to be because Guru Sahib revealed naam to him. Humans are not capable of that. Satguru is forever and ever. Human Guru cannot be a true Guru.

Naam is in us and all around us-, as guru sahib says:

Nau Nidh Amrit Prabh ka "Naam" Dehi mein Eska Bisram.

At amrit sanchar, panj pyares gives us shabad mantra to awake that naam inside us so that we can hear Naam resosance.

Why keep bringing gurmat naam? show me one place why gurbani mentions gurmat naam.

There is no such as thing "gurmat" naam, there is only naam, which resides in each of us. Sikhs along with many spiritual traditions in india, hinduism use different different shabad in their mat to awake that naam. In Gurbani, there are many shabad mantars- Ikongkar, Satnaam, Vahiguroo, Ram, Allah.

You have failed to explain who else has the statue of Satguru according to Gurmat? Show me Gurbani or Vaar reference. If Bhai Gurdas Ji and Bhatts say that Guru Nanak is the greatest then why do you have narrow mind to accept it? Equating Guru Sahib to other prophets is highly ignorant.

There are three contexts of satguru used in gurbani:

There are:

- Satguru/ Guru from adyatamic aspect(spiritual) refers to aad sach jugud sach hai bhi sach nanak sahib says - he will ever truth(nanak saying vahiguroo will be always hosi bhi sach).

Sri Guru Gobind Singh says: Aad Ant Eke Avtara So Guru Samjheo Hamara ||

- Satguru/Guru from socio-religious aspect depending on different dharam, its anyone who is merged with Vahiguroo, who has realized paratma, merged in turiya avastha, rose above from all vikars, three gunas, panj gyan indrie, panj karam inderaie, panj tat, panj kosh is Guru, be it from any mat. - Look into bhagat bani rachna, if you read bani by them, guru is reffered to akaal purkh and also refer to their vidya/atamik gurdev.

- Satguru/Guru from socio religious aspect in Sikhi is defaniately without any question- Satguru Nanak Dev ji.

You seem to have major dubda-

Sargun Nirgun Nirankar Sun Samadhi App, Ape Kiya Nanaka Ape Fer Jaap.

Vahiguroo is Sargun, Nirgun, Sun Samadhi.

If you wish to have sri guru nanak dev ji only -both nirgun, sargun, sun samadhi and where are the rest of avtars/bhramgyanis fit in?.

Your theory doesnt not make sense at all.

Avtars have different purpose, they are not neccessarily higher or lower from each other, they just have different purpose.

Nirgun- aad sach jugad sach hai bhi sach desire to transcedent its attributes into sargun avtars, yugs- (Satyug, treta, dvapar, kalyug). Bhai Gurdas ji talks about it, how vishnu avtar, ram avtar, krisan avtar were assigned in yugs they came as hari avtar, they all had different purpose in kalyug- sri guru nanak dev ji being avtar. How could all satyug, treta, dvapar yugs avtars can be false , indeed, they were assisgned by akaal purkh himself, how could rechna of akaal purkh can be false, unless bijla singh you can think satyug, treta, dvapar avtars were created by satan?

I would advise everyone to read with their sane mind an article- The Role of Avatar in Traditional Sikh Metaphsyics to understand it this concept better:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=9158

Naam can only be obtained from Satguru. Show me where Gurbani says that Mohammad, Jesus or other hindu avtars have the same status? Dhikr in Islam is not naam. Dhikr is simply picking any word you wish and chanting it. Obtaining Naam is different. It is obtained from Satguru, a way to become guru wala and learning the technique from the Guru. If Hindus can reach the same stage then why start Sikhi at first place? Why didn’t Guru Sahib just practice the previous ways and preached them? The best religion is to chant Naam. This Naam is given by Satguru Nanak Sahib only. I can give many quotes from Gurbani to prove this. Only Gurmantar is the most powerful. Other names are not. Waheguru is the greatest naam and most powerful.

If you think dhikr is not naam, lets pick kun, islam beleives kun was a shabad that created the whole universe just like sikhism beleives ongkar was the first resosance shabad , thats how whole creation got created. I asked this question to sant jagjit singh ji which resosance is true. You can check what he said, in the thread i created earlier- discussion with harkhowale sant.

See- i will use gurbani to break your jhoota ahankar(false pride) that vahiguroo is the only greatest naam and most powerful and everyone must take vahiguroo from panj pyares to get mukhti including christians, muslims, hindus.

Here answer (ongkar quotes)- I ll matha taik to you with 2 paise.

i m simply quoting gurbani and its explantion by damdami taksal vidvans- gyani thakur singh ji translate of japji sahib:

Kar Ardh Bin Paichayan, Chaauro Ko Samadho Jo Ongkar painchayan ||

When we recite Ikongkar...it takes our surat(concentration) to upper realms naturally. Yogi sidhas usually recite aom aom to reach upper realms but since they are reciting aom they get darshan(vision) of three devta's - bhram, vishnu, shiv instead of higher supreme reality. recitation is not complete. It's only complete if one recites kar with aom or ikong because when we recite kar. It takes us to upper realm in dasam dwara where we get "Atam Anand/Bhram Anand" . There are two types of anand- 1. Bhram anand. 2. Yoga Ananda.. Bhram anand is never ending always infinte anand one gets compare to yoga anand which is temporary after surat goes down...yoga anand disappears. Guru Nanak dev ji wrote kar which has all the parkash.

Bij Mantar Sab Ko Gian | (Sukhmani Sahib)

Root mantra gives everyone light of supreme knowledge.

Bij Mantar is - Ikongkar.

Pirthame On(g)kar So Dhun Poran Jagat Mae Raha ||

Fist ongkar was recited and that resosance created world and give nourishment to this world. (Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Dasam Granth Sahib)

Ongkar aad kathni anad, Khal Khand Khyal Gurbar Akaal ||

Ongkar Bhrama Utpat ||

Gyani talks about in the katha- bhrama(creator) came from ongkar resosance.

Ongkar Kiya Jin Chit ||

Then bhrama did bhagti on ongkar for thousands of years. After that Nirgun asked him, what do you want? Bhram asked god to give him powers to create the world.

Ongkar Saiyel Jug Paie ||

Ongkar Vaid Nirvaie ||

As for omkar, this is where some of damdami taksal vidvans disagre, they think omkar refers to only aom, three trinities- bhram, shiv, vishnu.. they are fully right in their interpertations, however if they observe other great hindu spiritual school of thoughts further- they will find:

Om/Aum isn't just interpreted as Trimurti, it also is interpreted as the three states of being:

A = waking state

U = dreaming state

M = sleeping/unconscious state

And the dot above the letter "m" is the anusvara, which is a heavy nasal sound.The anusvara (Gurmukhi: tippee or bindi) represents the Turiya state, beyond the Traigun.Mandukya Upanishad is an authority on Om which has been known as Mul Mantra before Satguru Nanak manifested.Om and Omkar (Oankar) are synonymous.

Conculustion- Ongkar, Oamkar, Aumkar, Aum, Satnam, Vahiguroo, Ram, Allah all equal have power to take this jiv in sachkhand, if this jev does abhyaas and faith in mantar.

There are many different mantars in Gurughar and again quoting from samparda- taksal, nirmale. Gurmantar- Vahiguroo, Bij Mantar- Ikongkar, Mool mantar- Ikongkar to Gurparsad, Maha Mantar- Ikongkar to Nanak Hosbi Sach, Mala Mantar- Japji Sahib, Parapoorbla Mantar- Satnaam, Gyatri Mantar- Gobinde Mukhande Udare Appare Hariang Kariang Niramae Akaame (Baba Deep singh ji used to jaap on gyantri mantar 100,000 times a day).

Show me above levels written in Quran or Hadiths. 7th layer of sky is paradise in Islam where rivers of wine and milk flow and “believers” are given 72 virgins and sex slaves. Don’t even bother to insult Sikhi with your low intellect. Go ask any of your Sants if they wish to give up Gurmat and follow Hindu or Islamic way to reach Sachkhand? If other religions can give you what Gurmat does then Sikhs in 18th century would’ve given up Sikhi. No one wants to have price put of his head for no reason. Sikhi is superior which is why Bhai Shabeg Singh refused to even say that he wasn’t a Sikh. Your thoughts give excuses to people to give up Sikhi. Why should someone become a Sikh if muktee is obtained from other religions as well? What is so special about it? Guru Sahib rejected Islam and Hinduism because these religions failed to guide the humanity. Guru Sahib appeared and ignorance propagated by other religions had disappeared and vanished.

Seven levels i quoted was taken from book of sufism (mystic traditon of islam), there are no references from quran given, i ll dig out more and let you know.

Since we already went tottaly off-topic in this thread, can moderators spilt the posts on this topic and create a new thread- possible title of- Bhagats and Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

[00gurpreet_singh00]

self edit.

[Akaali]

At the end, this is no where as to be seen or prove that krishan maharaj was any less avastha than sri guru nanak dev ji.

What are you talking about man?

How do you know what avastha he was at or what avastha Guru Nanak Saaheb was at? If you did you wouldn't be on here.

I'm not attacking your views, its fine, but don't post things you don't know about.

*I haven't read this topic, or anything, but that statement I just found to be misleading.

[Singhstah]

I'm sorry but the moment that a 'Sikh' even suggests there may be sumone who has an equal or higher avastha than Guroo Sahib, that person is no longer a Sikh but a Maha Moorakh. Absolutley ridiculous load of manmat.

Let me guess what is coming next... "hindu hater", "tat khalsa", "neo-khalistani", dont worry, not like you aint said it before, change the record please

[N30S1NGH]

At the end, this is no where as to be seen or prove that krishan maharaj was any less avastha than sri guru nanak dev ji.

What are you talking about man?

How do you know what avastha he was at or what avastha Guru Nanak Saaheb was at? If you did you wouldn't be on here.

I'm not attacking your views, its fine, but don't post things you don't know about.

*I haven't read this topic, or anything, but that statement I just found to be misleading.

There are different categories of avatar, the most complete being 'puran hari avtar' (even with the differences in kalaas between them). Only they have the specific status of being those who give yug-dharma - the most appropriate teachings of the yug. Guru Maharaj is clearly of this category. If Avtar were simply perfect brahmgyaan, then any other brahmgyani would be the Guru in that sense...but no samprda sikh has ever claimed to be of the same category. Satiguru has a specific definition...the puran hari avtar manifest for a SPECIFIC function of giving yug dharma...a brahmgyani per se is not that. Yet Guru Hargobind's statement in Bhai Gurdas Varan (I will come in each and every yug to give dharma), Bhatts statements, etc all show there is no difference from earlier avatars...because how can there be?!! Either Parmatma came as 'puran' or he didn't.

[N30S1NGH]

I'm sorry but the moment that a 'Sikh' even suggests there may be sumone who has an equal or higher avastha than Guroo Sahib, that person is no longer a Sikh but a Maha Moorakh. Absolutley ridiculous load of manmat.

Let me guess what is coming next... "hindu hater", "tat khalsa", "neo-khalistani", dont worry, not like you aint said it before, change the record please

do not worry, this is usual response i expected. thank you :wub:

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

I'm sorry but the moment that a 'Sikh' even suggests there may be sumone who has an equal or higher avastha than Guroo Sahib, that person is no longer a Sikh but a Maha Moorakh. Absolutley ridiculous load of manmat.

Let me guess what is coming next... "hindu hater", "tat khalsa", "neo-khalistani", dont worry, not like you aint said it before, change the record please

Ok …….how does Bakwaspanthi sound to you?, :nihungsmile:

[Guest baba amarjeet singh]

woooooooooooooooooooooahhhhh

namstang, uve lost it mate

what an <banned word filter activated>

to post tht krishan could have had the same avstha as guru nanak dev sahib jee is just stupid

[Techno_singh]

i dont have a clue of whats going, simply because im not educated enough to read that much...or just cant be botherd to