How Would You Answer These Questions?

[wjkk wjkf]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH!

I was having a debate with my mum and younger brother about the significance of Amrit Sanchaar and the Panj Kakkars in Sikhi. Naturally my sceptical family members argued to the point that I could not be heard over their words however, I got this from the debate:

1) My brother does not beleive in our Sikh Guru Ji's. He does not believe in the revelations of "men" - being the Guru Ji's.

2) My mother believes that after Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, man took over (brought in rules and regulations) and then came Sikhi - she does not believe that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji set out to start a new religion.

3) Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji was power hungry, and sought to control the followers of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji by introducing Amrit Sanchaar.

4) Having Amrit Sanchaar and panj kakkars was only necessary back then, not now.

5) Why is having Kes so significant in Sikhi?

6) You do not need to go to Gurudwara Sahib to worship God.

7) Honest living, being a good person, being charitable etc. is all that is needed to get close to God.

8) Why is drinking so prohibited in Sikhi? If it is drunk in moderation, then what is the problem?

The debate started from my comments about Pubs being opposite/closeby Gurudwara Sahibs in Southall and how you can often hear the cheers in the Glassy Junction from Sri Guru Singh Sabha GUrudwara Sahib across the road.

I believe that these questions/thoughts are probably going through most of the youth/"new" Sikhs minds nowadays and I just request Sangat's input as to how I anwer the questions of my family members. Afterall, if we can't explain to our family and samjaa THEM about Sikhi, how do tell others?

Please help jio's and please keep in mind that my family are sceptical - and do not honour the Guru's as most of us on this forum would. :WW:

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

[OhTwadi]

.

[Babbar Shere]

1. your bro. doesnt believe in gurus? lol.

hes looking for some proof?

there are numerous sakhis of amazing things that happened with faith and power of our gurus.

2. your mom no believe in guru nanak dev ji mission? i am not sure how to answer that, um. how does she veiw the purpose of guru ji then? what he opinion on purpose of life?

3. guru ji was power hungry? lol, nobodies got a gun to anybody's head and telling them to take amrit.

you have choice to decide, but if you do decide, there will be not a gun, but the sword. (irony)

4. amrit was only necessary back then? why is that? what has changed that would make it unneccessary now?

5. kes?

our kes are like gift of from god.

we come in this world a certain way, with kes on our body.

thats like what god gave us, and then if we go and cut kes, its like saying "no thanks god, but i didnt need em"

6. no need for gurukar? well if your sikh there is need...obviously how can you possibley understand god if you never go to his house? lol

7. i am not sure about this one. bani is very much need for guru ka sikh.

8. drinking? ask them wat the purpose of drinking is. and what it does for us. and how it drinking helps us become "better people" like they said.

paji is sounds like your family is not sikh? and dont take me wrong, iam not insulting anybody, i mean like did you convert to sikh from other religion?

i get these same sorts of questions from people who dont really know much about the culture/relgion, or people who are from other faiths.

but the big thing behind all these questions and finding all these answeres is that if people dont understand these sorts of things, they never will no matter what you tell them. hence if everybody could understand em, everybody would be guru ka sikh, but there not, and thats why we got different beliefs and different religions bro.

guru ji evens tells us: "sach kaho sun laho subeaa, jin prem kiyo tin hi prab payoh" which means that "all should listen to the truth that only the ones that love him can realize him"

keep us posted, if you gots more questions, ask bro....

[malkeet]

iv heard 4,5,7,8 from my family too. eventually iv realised that there is no point in debating sikhi with people, infact its best to avoid all situations completely until you;r jeevan is a lot stronger. unfortunately most peoples views cant be changed, it takes some1 special to influence these people (shows how amazing our gurujis were!)

[SSjatt]

Ask them to listen to Sant Maskeen Singh Ji. Otherwise translate his viakhia into your words toward your brothers language.

good luck bro

[singh soormay]

6) You do not need to go to Gurudwara Sahib to worship God.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

khalsa Ji

I hope these quotes from Gurbani help

jin har dhhiaaeiaa this no sarab kaliaan hoeae nith sa(n)th janaa kee sa(n)gath jaae beheeai muhu jorreeai ||

One who meditates on the Lord obtains all pleasures and comforts; let us go each and every day, to sit in the Saints' Society.

Page 550 Guru Amar Daas Raag Bihaagraa

dhaevan vaalae kai hathh dhaath hai guroo dhuaarai paae ||

The Gift is in the Hands of the Great Giver. At the Guru's Door, in the Gurdwara, it is received.

Page 33 Guru Amar Daas Jee Raag Sri Raag

Bhul Chuk Maph

[Revolutionary]

1) My brother does not beleive in our Sikh Guru Ji's. He does not believe in the revelations of "men" - being the Guru Ji's.

What kind of "revelation" does he talk of? Guru Ji's didn't have any such revelations like Mohammed etc.. Guru Ji were already One with Akaal

2) My mother believes that after Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, man took over (brought in rules and regulations) and then came Sikhi - she does not believe that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji set out to start a new religion.

mwirAw is`kw jgq ivc nwnk inrml pMQ clwXw]

3) Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji was power hungry, and sought to control the followers of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji by introducing Amrit Sanchaar.

as compared to.. Charan Pahul..? Khande Di Pahul actually "took this power" away from Guru Ji as 5 Pyarre can give out this Amrit. Before, it was Charan Pahul - ie: Their feet dipped in water. So your arguement is flawed.

4) Having Amrit Sanchaar and panj kakkars was only necessary back then, not now.

Right, try saying that about the wheel.. how old-fashioned(!)

5) Why is having Kes so significant in Sikhi?

Why not? Hindu Gods had kesh. Mohammed had Kesh. Jesus had Kesh. So instead of asking "why do Sikhs have to keep kesh?" ask "why don't other followers do it??"

6) You do not need to go to Gurudwara Sahib to worship God.

Exactly. Who said u had to? lol read some gurbani dude.

7) Honest living, being a good person, being charitable etc. is all that is needed to get close to God.

..right so it took 11 Gurus - 200+ years to say just this. OK let's take it from a different angle. Define Honest. Define Good. Define Charity. Without Spiritual enlightenment your logic (being inferior humans) will always be flawed! EG: Murderers think that killing is good according to his sense. Meat eaters think eating meat is good. Which 1 is flawed? Which 1 is perfect? Only a perfect being can make perfect decisions... but o wait! Is there even a perfect person?!

8) Why is drinking so prohibited in Sikhi? If it is drunk in moderation, then what is the problem?

Still damages your liver - Do your research before coming up with standard Punjabified/Pindu comments.

Please help jio's and please keep in mind that my family are sceptical - and do not honour the Guru's as most of us on this forum would.

Being quite sceptical myself I dont understand how Gurbani quotes will help you - will they even care..?

But if ju need some quotes pleej PM me ill post it afterwards in reference form.

[wjkk wjkf]

OK this is like the 10th time i'm replying to this thread- so this time I'm keeping it short. THanks to you guys who replied. I put the arguments across to them on our way home, but surprise surprise! They came up with flawed excuses/arguments. Basically, it all comes down to this: They don't have the discipline/love for Guru Ji to be able to deal with the responsibilities of Amritdhari...ness. Plus there's societal pressures i.e. short hair and fashion ...my youngest brother admitted that he would be happy to wear a dastaar if he went school in Southall - just not Surrey (more white, conservative english people).

THen there's the fact that they just don't KNOW what they believe. Sometimes they believe in Guru Ji then they don't. etc.

As far as I'm concerned it's aas Papi Ji explained in previous thread. Without the fear, there's no love for GUru Ji. They obviously don't have the faith. All I can say is that they've lost out and that they are blind.

gauVI mhlw 5 ]

gourree mehalaa 5 ||

Gauree, Fifth Mehla:

mhjru JUTw kIqonu Awip ]

mehajar jhoot(h)aa keethon aap ||

The memorandum was proven to be false by the Lord Himself.

pwpI kau lwgw sMqwpu ]1]

paapee ko laagaa sa(n)thaap ||1||

The sinner is now suffering in despair. ||1||

ijsih shweI goibdu myrw ]

jisehi sehaaee gobidh maeraa ||

Those who have my Lord of the Universe as their support

iqsu kau jmu nhI AwvY nyrw ]1] rhwau ]

this ko jam nehee aavai naeraa ||1|| rehaao ||

- death does not even approach them. ||1||Pause||

swcI drgh bolY kUVu ]

saachee dharageh bolai koorr ||

In the True Court, they lie;

isru hwQ pCoVY AMDw mUVu ]2]

sir haathh pashhorrai a(n)dhhaa moorr ||2||

the blind fools strike their own heads with their own hands. ||2||

rog ibAwpy krdy pwp ]

rog biaapae karadhae paap ||

Sickness afflicts those who commit sins;

AdlI hoie bYTw pRBu Awip ]3]

adhalee hoe bait(h)aa prabh aap ||3||

God Himself sits as the Judge. ||3||

Apn kmwieAY Awpy bwDy ]

apan kamaaeiai aapae baadhhae ||

By their own actions, they are bound and gagged.

drbu gieAw sBu jIA kY swQY ]4]

dharab gaeiaa sabh jeea kai saathhai ||4||

All their wealth is gone, along with their lives. ||4||

nwnk srin pry drbwir ]

naanak saran parae dharabaar ||

Nanak has taken to the Sanctuary of the Lord's Court;

rwKI pYj myrY krqwir ]5]99]168]

raakhee paij maerai karathaar ||5||99||168||

my Creator has preserved my honor. ||5||99||168||

not very short but still.....

[MPKaur]

Ang 161:

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇਵੈ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥

Har har nām ḏėvai jan so­ė.

Those, unto whom the Lord bestows His Name,

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਹੋਇ ॥

An­ḏin bẖagaṯ gur sabḏī ho­ė.

worship Him night and day, through the Word of the Guru's Shabad.

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਬੂਝੈ ਕੋਇ ॥

Gurmaṯ virlā būjẖai ko­ė.

How rare are those who understand the Guru's Teachings!

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੧੨॥੩੨॥

Nānak nām samāvai so­ė. ||4||12||32||

O Nanak, they are absorbed in the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||4||12||32||

[wjkk wjkf]

Thanks for your replies jio lol my brother refused to read gurbani. I suppose all I can do now is Ardaas. I've explained these points clearly to them, but they dismiss them. Not much I can do about that. This is simply stubborness and to be quite honest; I don't really think I have a right to tell them what to do. I've explained things to them but if they still insist on ignoring me then Waheguru is the only one who can do anything. I'm just a moorakh.