Ok`so Here Goes

[Mehtab Singh]

I am not going to name the person. He is having problems posting on here, so I shall do the honor. What you see below is his post and my response. He further replied to my post, but it was pretty much the same thing that I had answered already, so I would like the sangat's input on this.

His post

bhagat singh's family friends fellow prison mates and prison guards all claimed he was an athiest

secondly according to this less that 30 non sikhs were hung

Sikh contribution to Indian freedom movement

Hanged: 93 out of 121 were Sikhs -->> 77%.

Jallian Wala Bagh massacre: 799 out of 1399 were Sikhs -->> 62%

Life imprisonment: 2147 out of 2646 were Sikhs -->> 81%

Out of 42,000 recruits in the Indian National Army under the command of Subhash Chandra Bose, 28,000 soldiers contributing 67% of strength, were Sikhs.

Book source : "History of Indian National Congress

BUT ACCORDING TO THIS SITE MORE THEN 100 hindus were hung and thats more then your statistic of 93 sikhs being hung and proves your statistic wrong cause it claims only 121 were hung.

http://groups.msn.com/hindu-history/rawarc...504084199221967

My response...

1.) Your source is not reliable as it is from an online Hindu MSN group. I have given my source: History of Indian National Congress written by a non-Sikh who has researched the history of the Congress. Please try credible sources in future.

2.) This list is by the HSRA (Hindustan Socialist Republican Army), which if I am not wrong was the party Shaheed Bhagat Singh belonged to. Just to let you know, no one after Shaheed Bhagat Singh, Shaheed Sukhdev, Shaheed Rajguru and Shaheed Chandrashekhar Azad was left alive or free to carry on this party. All these men were martyred and the otjhers jailed for life in early 1931, and so thats when the party supposedly ended. It is impossible to have a list released in 1943.

3.) The heading says "All of the individuals listed here were active participants in the freedom movement. They were either executed or perished in jail.", so I don't see how you can say 100 Hindus were hanged. Those who "perished in jails" were probably given life imprisonment, not death penalty.

4.) I have had a check up on Bhagat Singh's article "Why I am an atheist", and it has been confirmed that he never wrote such an article. It was communists who manipulated it. We have discussed it in detail on 3 Sikh forums. Check my post for the 3 URLs.

5.) Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale also talks about Sikhs sacrificing 93 heads for India's independance. Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji's autobiography Jail Chithhiyaan talks about his meeting with Bhagat Singh. Do you honestly think anyone would believe other so-called authentic sources and dispose these Gurmukhs as false?

6.) Someone said they know Shaheed Bhagat Singh's sister in Toronto and she says he was always a atheist. Iys a known fact that his family was not allowed to meet him after a while when he was in jail, so how do you accept this?

If you really want satisfactory answers, why don't you post your stuff on the main forum? What is your purpose of sending a PM? Do you have some personal agenda or do you know that your sources are not credible? If you want I can start a new thread where I will paste your PM and my response and let the sangat discuss, is that ok with you?

His response...

i tried making a forum the moderators suspended my account or something, cause all my posts arn't being posted and any thread i start isn't being posted. Thats why i am privatly messaging you

your source about 93 sikhs being hanged out of 121 and only under 4000 ppl had to give their lives for india's freedom is kind of more myth then fact, also every one of those names from that hindu website is legit ive looked up alot of those names and their's always something on what they did, but sikhs can only name three freedom fighters, plus more then 30 ppl were hanged from that list and those names are all legit as well so once again proving your source wrong.

AS WELL WERE CAN I LOOK UP YOUR SOURCE SO I CAN SEE WERE THE PERSON WHO WROTE YOUR SOURCE GOT THEIR INFORMATION FROM TO SEE IT ISN'T MADE UP, CAUSE ALOT OF SIKH WEBSITES HAVE BIN MAKING THINGS UP LIKE SIKHLIONZ I ACUTALLY ENDED UP HUMILATING SOMEONE ON THIS SITE WHO THOUGHT CONGRESS WAS A HINDUTVA GROUP AND CONSIDERED IT STUPID TO NOT THINK SIKH SOURCES WEREN'T RELIABLE BUT WHEN HE POSTED HIS LINK THE GURSIKHS FROM SIKHLIONS MADE UP A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE CLAIMING THE RSS WROTE IT WERE IT MAKES IT SOUND LIKE RSS WORSHIPPED INDIRA GANDHI BUT IN REALITY RSS ALWAYS WANTED TO KILL INDIRA GANDHI, HELL THEY WERE PARTYING TO WHEN SHE GOT KILLED. YET MANY GURSIKHS HAVE WRITTEN BOOKS AND HAVE WEBSITES WERE THEY CLAIM RSS SUPPORTED INDIRA GANDHI AND CONGRESS.

So now you understand why i don't believe alot of sikh sources and why i want references of were they got their information from.

LIKE BHAGAT SINGH IM PRETTY SURE IF BHAGAT SINGH WANTED TO BE A GURSIKH OR WAS HIS FAMILY WOULD OF KNOWN, HIS FELLOW PRISONERS WOULD OF KNOWN, PRISON GUARDS WOULD OF KNOWN AND BY THE WAY WHY I AM AN ATHIEST IS A LEGIT LETTER WROTE BY BHAGAT SINGH REAL HISTORIANS CONSIDER IT CREDIBLE AND ITS IN THE BOOK.

In bhagat singh's book its pretty old school so ill try finding were you can purchase it or ill get my copy and scan it and ill email it to you but written in this book his parants claimed he was an athiest his sisters his family now claims it, his fellow friends did and his fellow prisonors did as well claim he was an athiest, and his letter why i am an athiest is legit, i think its just gursikhs who want to claim this letter was false and that he was a gursikh, cause if he were a gursikh DON'T YOU THINK BHAGAT SINGH'S FAMILY WOULD OF KNOWN HE WAS A GURSIKH AND WOULD OF MADE THE PARANTS HAPPIER TO KNOW THEIR SON EMBRACED GOD.

PLUS IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT

don't want to sound rude so im sorry for sounding like an <admin-profanity filter activated>, but im sick and tired of so called gursikhs judging non gursikhs, thats why i love it when i can show them up in their faces about bhagat singh udham singh kartar singh also about maharaja ranjit singh, and their gursikhs out their who try claiming all these guys were gursikhs without showing evidence or making up their own story's and claiming them to be true, but we've seen all the sikh websites who support khalistan put false propaganda and fairty tailes on their sites trying to claim things like indira gandhi led rss, so how can i count most of what alot of so called gursikhs say true, thats why i need references.

SO IF YOU COULD YOU GIVE ME THAT STATISTIC BUT FROM THAT HINDU WEBSITE ILL POST ALL THE NAMES OF THE MEN HUNG WHEN I HAVE TIME AT WORK, YOU CAN GOOGLE THEM ALL AND SEE THAT THESE GUYS WERE REAL AND EXSISTED AND ILL GIVE YOU MORE THEN 30 NAMES FROM THAT HINDU WEBSITE AND OTHER WEBSITES AND FROM BOOKS, TRUST ME THAT STATISTIC COULDN'T BE RIGHT CAUSE IN CERTAIN AREAS OF INDIA MANY PPL IN THE THOUSANDS HAD DIED OVER DECADES APPOSING BRITISH RULE.

SO IF YOU COULD PLEASE TELL ME WERE YOU GOT THAT STATISTIC FROM, AS WELL PLEASE PROVIDE THE RESOURCES USED TO GATHER THIS STATISTIC, CAUSE EVERY BOOK AND PAPER AND THESIS GIVEN PROVIDE REFERENCES OF WERE THEY GOT THEIR INFORMATION FROM, WHEN YOU WRITE A PAPER FOR UNIVIRSITY YOU HAVE TO GIVE YOUR REFERENCES, AND FROM THAT ILL FIND OUT IF THOSE STATISTICS YOU GAVE ME ARE REAL OR MADE UP CAUSE WE KNOW ALOT OF SIKHS OUT THEIR LIKE TO MAKE UP STORY'S LIKE 40 GURDWARAS WERE ATTACKED DURING OPERATION BLUESTAR YET TILL THIS DAY NO ONE COULD NAME THOSE 40 GURDWARAS YET THEY'LL CLAIM 40 GURDWARAS WERE ATTACKED STILL.

ALSO ON THE OTHER SIKH SITE SOMEONE POSTED A BBC DOCUMANTRY WERE THEY WENT TO THE POLICE AND FOUND THAT NO CASES WERE REGISTERED ABOUT SIKH GIRLS BEING FORCED TO CONVERT AND NO CASES OF SIKH GIRLS BEING SOLD TO BROTHELS IN PAKISTAN SHOWING THAT SIKHS DO MAKE UP STORYS. I GUESS FOR MUSLIMS ALOT OF SIKHS MADE UP THOSE STORY'S TO SCARE GIRLS FROM DATING MUSLIMS AND THATS NOT WORKING SO THEY NEED A DIFFERENT APROACH.

We have answered every single question by this dude on several Sikh forums. Maybe he is not satisfied. Anyone who is mature enough to come out with proper answers is welcome to post. Others need not bother and can learn.

[V]

Here I agree with you, that Sikhs have a tendency of labelling those whom they deem fits them as Sikhs, and those who they don't like for some reason as manmukh etc etc. But i must say that Veer, you must fix your tone. You sound pretty arrogant, in trying to reject the huge amount of sacrifices made by Sikhs at the time.

Who founded Azad Hind Fauj?

Sorry, but I have to agree with the dude to a certain extent.

Firstlt what Bhagat Singh believed in just prior to death isn't relevant; he was an atheist at the time he took all of the actions.

6.) Someone said they know Shaheed Bhagat Singh's sister in Toronto and she says he was always a atheist. Iys a known fact that his family was not allowed to meet him after a while when he was in jail, so how do you accept this?

Judging by the response:

bhagat singh's family friends fellow prison mates and prison guards all claimed he was an athiest

He does have a point. I'm not here to say Bhai Randhir Singh lied or not; that's not my business. If the person ahs researched into it and found out that NO-ONE confirms it- NOT EVEN THE PRISON GUARD (What does he have to win out of it?) confirms it.

Also Mehtab Veer ji, could you please tell me where it as been confirmed that he never wrote the letter?

To the person who sent you a PM:

The site you send does indeed list more than 100 names of those who got martyred. Have yo even read the list which includes people your claim to be atheists! (If not atheist they came from SIKH families - how and when did they convert to Hinduism):

76. Bhagat Singh. S/o Kishan Singh and nephew of renowned revolutionary Sardar Ajit Singh. Lgallpur (now in Pakistan). Born Oct. 6, 1907. He was first arrested for the well-known Central Assembly Bomb throwing affair and while in prison was made an accused in the Second Lahore Conspiracy case along with many others woven round the murder of Saunders, A.S.P., Lahore. He was executed on March 23, 1931 in Lahore Central Jail.

117. Udham Singh. S/o Sardar Tahel Singh, Sunam, Patiala, Born Dec. 26, 1898. He shot dead Michel O. Dyer, ex-Governor of Punjab as a reprisal for the brutal atrocities led by him in Punjab in 1919. He was executed on June 12, 1940 in Pentonville Jail (London).

A quick skim through the list showed that atleast 15-20 of the names ended with Singh! (I didn't count properly, perhaps you can?)

Sorry, but I have to agree with the dude to a certain extent.

Firstlt what Bhagat Singh believed in just prior to death isn't relevant; he was an atheist at the time he took all of the actions.

6.) Someone said they know Shaheed Bhagat Singh's sister in Toronto and she says he was always a atheist. Iys a known fact that his family was not allowed to meet him after a while when he was in jail, so how do you accept this?

Judging by the response:

bhagat singh's family friends fellow prison mates and prison guards all claimed he was an athiest

He does have a point. I'm not here to say Bhai Randhir Singh lied or not; that's not my business. If the person ahs researched into it and found out that NO-ONE confirms it- NOT EVEN THE PRISON GUARD (What does he have to win out of it?) confirms it.

Also Mehtab Veer ji, could you please tell me where it as been confirmed that he never wrote the letter?

To the person who sent you a PM:

The site you send does indeed list more than 100 names of those who got martyred. Have yo even read the list which includes people your claim to be atheists! (If not atheist they came from SIKH families - how and when did they convert to Hinduism):

76. Bhagat Singh. S/o Kishan Singh and nephew of renowned revolutionary Sardar Ajit Singh. Lgallpur (now in Pakistan). Born Oct. 6, 1907. He was first arrested for the well-known Central Assembly Bomb throwing affair and while in prison was made an accused in the Second Lahore Conspiracy case along with many others woven round the murder of Saunders, A.S.P., Lahore. He was executed on March 23, 1931 in Lahore Central Jail.

117. Udham Singh. S/o Sardar Tahel Singh, Sunam, Patiala, Born Dec. 26, 1898. He shot dead Michel O. Dyer, ex-Governor of Punjab as a reprisal for the brutal atrocities led by him in Punjab in 1919. He was executed on June 12, 1940 in Pentonville Jail (London).

A quick skim through the list showed that atleast 15-20 of the names ended with Singh! (I didn't count properly, perhaps you can?)

Sorry, but I have to agree with the dude to a certain extent.

Firstlt what Bhagat Singh believed in just prior to death isn't relevant; he was an atheist at the time he took all of the actions.

6.) Someone said they know Shaheed Bhagat Singh's sister in Toronto and she says he was always a atheist. Iys a known fact that his family was not allowed to meet him after a while when he was in jail, so how do you accept this?

Judging by the response:

bhagat singh's family friends fellow prison mates and prison guards all claimed he was an athiest

He does have a point. I'm not here to say Bhai Randhir Singh lied or not; that's not my business. If the person ahs researched into it and found out that NO-ONE confirms it- NOT EVEN THE PRISON GUARD (What does he have to win out of it?) confirms it.

Also Mehtab Veer ji, could you please tell me where it as been confirmed that he never wrote the letter?

To the person who sent you a PM:

The site you send does indeed list more than 100 names of those who got martyred. Have yo even read the list which includes people your claim to be atheists! (If not atheist they came from SIKH families - how and when did they convert to Hinduism):

76. Bhagat Singh. S/o Kishan Singh and nephew of renowned revolutionary Sardar Ajit Singh. Lgallpur (now in Pakistan). Born Oct. 6, 1907. He was first arrested for the well-known Central Assembly Bomb throwing affair and while in prison was made an accused in the Second Lahore Conspiracy case along with many others woven round the murder of Saunders, A.S.P., Lahore. He was executed on March 23, 1931 in Lahore Central Jail.

117. Udham Singh. S/o Sardar Tahel Singh, Sunam, Patiala, Born Dec. 26, 1898. He shot dead Michel O. Dyer, ex-Governor of Punjab as a reprisal for the brutal atrocities led by him in Punjab in 1919. He was executed on June 12, 1940 in Pentonville Jail (London).

A quick skim through the list showed that atleast 15-20 of the names ended with Singh! (I didn't count properly, perhaps you can?)

don't want to sound rude so im sorry for sounding like an <admin-profanity filter activated>, but im sick and tired of so called gursikhs judging non gursikhs, thats why i love it when i can show them up in their faces about bhagat singh udham singh kartar singh also about maharaja ranjit singh, and their gursikhs out their who try claiming all these guys were gursikhs without showing evidence or making up their own story's and claiming them to be true, but we've seen all the sikh websites who support khalistan put false propaganda and fairty tailes on their sites trying to claim things like indira gandhi led rss, so how can i count most of what alot of so called gursikhs say true, thats why i need references.

Here I agree with you, that Sikhs have a tendency of labelling those whom they deem fits them as Sikhs, and those who they don't like for some reason as manmukh etc etc. But I must say that Veer, you must fix your tone. You sound pretty arrogant, in trying to reject the huge amount of sacrifices made by Sikhs at the time.

Who founded Azad Hind Fauj? Your answer will reveal your knowledge on the subject…

[Singhson]

I think everyone should give this all a rest. Does it really matter if x amount were Sikh, or x amount Hindu. The fact is lots of innocent people died. It's really sad to see people still argue over figures till this day. Why can't people let their atma rest?

[guptveer1469]

this guy was mandeep99 for sure... he also sent me pms regarding sant ji...

[Ramneet Singh]

but im sick and tired of so called gursikhs judging non gursikhs, thats why i love it when i can show them up in their faces about bhagat singh udham singh kartar singh also about maharaja ranjit singh, and their gursikhs out their who try claiming all these guys were gursikhs without showing evidence or making up their own story's and claiming them to be true,

wow thats alot of frustration

Bhai Sahib Bhai Jeevan Singh Jee said something very interesting when asked about a meeting that took place a while after operation blue star: "Khalistaan Mangan Vaaleyo, Khalsey Bano!".

I know its prob a stretch tryin to apply the above quote here but I don't see any point in arguing about who we with think are gursikhs or not....lets just all become gursikhs ( not sayin u guys aren't ones alrdy)

..............too bad i dont follow my own advice

[Mehtab Singh]

Also Mehtab Veer ji, could you please tell me where it as been confirmed that he never wrote the letter?

The dates have been purposely manipulated by the communists who wrote that letter. They gave it the date of the day which was one day after Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji met Shaheed Bhagat Singh to make it look like Bhai Sahib had no effect on him. Bhai Sahib met him on Oct 4 1930, and the date of the article is given as Oct 5-6 1930. Here is more: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=31285&hl=

76. Bhagat Singh. S/o Kishan Singh and nephew of renowned revolutionary Sardar Ajit Singh. Lgallpur (now in Pakistan). Born Oct. 6, 1907. He was first arrested for the well-known Central Assembly Bomb throwing affair and while in prison was made an accused in the Second Lahore Conspiracy case along with many others woven round the murder of Saunders, A.S.P., Lahore. He was executed on March 23, 1931 in Lahore Central Jail.

Bhagat Singh's date of birth is Sept 28, 1907. He was first arrested when a false charge of detonating a bomb at Dussehra celebrations was put on him. Inconsistent dates and incorrect info.

117. Udham Singh. S/o Sardar Tahel Singh, Sunam, Patiala, Born Dec. 26, 1898. He shot dead Michel O. Dyer, ex-Governor of Punjab as a reprisal for the brutal atrocities led by him in Punjab in 1919. He was executed on June 12, 1940 in Pentonville Jail (London).

Udham Singh's date of birth is 26 Dec 1899. He was martyred on July 31, 1940. Inconsistent dates and incorrect info.

[Mehtab Singh]

More from him...

name me one question of mine that was, Today, 03:29 PM

answered

bhindranwale stayed out of harmandar sahib congress wouldn't of attacked it, and i never defended congress im just not dumb enough to call them a hindutva organisation but they are similar to a mafia but their power and money hunger govt, hell their attacking the exsistance of ram just to build a bridge, so that shows how stupid most khalistanis are cause they claim congresss to be hindutva

THE HINDU MSN GROUP WITH THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS ON IT IS A LEGIT SOURCE TELL ME ONE NAME ON THAT LIST THATS MADE UP, THOSE ARE ACTUAL NAMES, WHICH PROVES YOUR SOURCE WRONG, TELL ME WHAT REFERENCES DOES YOUR SOURCE HAVE, DOES IT PROVIDE MORE THEN THREE NAMES OF THE 93 SIKHS HUNG????

PS NAME ME ONE QUESTION OF MINE THAT WAS ANSWERED????

And more...

MY AGENDA IS TRUTH, Today, 03:31 PM

I TALK ABOUT ACTUAL FACTS AND NOT FAIRY TAILES, THAT MANY KHALISTANI WEBSITES AND KHALISTANIS BELIEVE, LIKE 40 GURDWARAS WERE ATTACKED OR 70 WERE ATTACKED ON OPERATION BLUESTAR AND RSS WORSHIPS GANDHI YET THEY CAN'T NAME THOSE 40 GURDWARAS AND ITS A KNOWN FACT RSS HAS ALWAYS HATED ADN WATNED TO KILL NEHRU INDIRA RAJIV AND NOW SONIA AND RAHUL AND THEY KILLED MAHATMA GANDHI BUT NEHRU GOT LUCKY CAUSE RSS ALMOST CAME CLOSE TO KILLING HIM TO.

ONCE AGAIN NAME ME ONE QUESTION OF MINE THAT WAS ANSWERED????

TELL ME THE QUESTION AND ANSWER, OR ARE YOU JUST ANOTHER MAN TO SPREAD FAIRY TAILES LIKE A TYPICAL KHALISTANI?

My responses...

You have been asking these same questions on Tapoban, DiscoverSikhi and now here. Several people on all these forums have answered you several times, while it is you who chooses not to believe because you want an answer that makes you feel good. Sorry that can't happen. Truth will remain the truth whether you accept it or not.

And by the way, I am not a Khalistani. I really think you are a Congressiya but I won't label you as that. Labels don't mean anything.

[guptveer1469]

this is what mandeep sent me by pm

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Find Member's Posts bhindranwale, Today, 01:54 AM

Amrit Naam Nidhaan Hai

Group: Under Moderation

Posts: 161

Member No.: 15989

Joined: 7-January 08

http://www.sikhtimes.com/bios_060604a.html

Introduction

Today marks the 20th anniversary of the passing away of Jarnail Singh Brar, popularly known as Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, or simply Bhindranwale.

In the early 1980s, Bhindranwale led an armed movement for Sikh autonomy and died during an army offensive (nicknamed Operation Blue Star) on the Darbar Sahib complex (also known as the Golden Temple complex).

Not many people can claim to be neutral about Bhindranwale. To his admirers, he was above all a man of his word, a rare quality among politicians.1 To his detractors, he mostly represented the 'paranoia' and 'dangerously intolerant quality of orthodox Sikhs.'2

After Operation Bluestar, Harchand Singh Longowal, perhaps the most respected moderate Sikh leader of recent years, is said to have done a volte-face and revised his opinion of Bhindranwale overnight from 'scoundrel' to 'saint.'3

Dipankar Gupta, one of India's premier sociologists, once offered the following explanation, 'That Bhindranwale is near canonisation in the minds of many Sikhs today is because Bhindranwale's blood mingled with the blood of at least 400 pilgrims who died during Bluestar.'4

The fiery preacher, equally controversial in life and death, left behind several myths about himself, some made popular by well-wishers, others by detractors. The following is a countdown of the top five most enduring of the Bhindranwale fables.

Myth #5: Bhindranwale Survived Operation Bluestar and Is Alive and Well

Damdami Taksal is the influential religious school, once located in the village Bhinder5, where Bhindranwale was initially a student and eventually jathedar (head priest). The seminary's current jathedar, Thakur Singh, has continued to maintain that Bhindranwale is still alive.6

According to Lt. Gen. Kuldip Singh Brar, who commanded Operation Bluestar, '[the bodies] of Bhindranwale and Shahbeg were identified by a number of agencies including the police, the I.B. [intelligence Bureau] and militants in our custody.'7 Bhindranwale's brother is also reported to have identified Bhindranwale's body.8 Pictures of what appears to be Bhindranwale's body have been published in at least two widely circulated books.9,10

Whereas there can be little doubt that Bhindranwale is no more, the circumstances of his final moments remain shrouded in mystery. The New York Times reported three distinct versions of Bhindranwale's death.

Veteran B.B.C. correspondent Mark Tully relates an incident during Bhindranwale's funeral. Captain Bhardwaj 'on lifting the sheet to make sure it was Bhindranwale [asked] the police why the Sant's [sant is an honorific title analogous to Saint] body was so badly battered.' A police officer replied, 'The extremists broke his bones.'11

At the other end of the spectrum lies Dilbir Singh's account. Dilbir Singh was 'Public Relations Advisor at Guru Nanak Dev University for seven years [and] was with the Sant constantly from 1978 until the last week of his life.' He was also 'at that time a correspondent of the Tribune and formerly of the Patriot.' He stated, 'In the fight Bhindranwale was injured on the right side of his temple. A government doctor verified he was captured alive. He was tortured to death.'12

R.K. Bajaj, a correspondent for Surya magazine, is said to have confirmed that 'he had personally seen a photograph of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale in army custody.'13

Myth #4: Bhindranwale Was a Man of Religion Without Political Ambition

Bhindranwale made repeated claims to the effect that he had no interest in political power, 'If I ever become president of the Akali Dal or the S.G.P.C. [shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee], an M.L.A., a government minister, or a member of parliament . . . I shall deserve a shoe-beating by you.'14,15

In contrast, we have the following examples of Bhindranwale's abundant political aspirations year after year:

During the S.G.P.C. elections of 1979, 'Of the forty candidates Bhindranwale put up [for a total of 140 seats], all but four were defeated.'16

'For all his protestations that he was not a politician, Bhindranwale campaigned actively for the Congress in three constituencies' during the 1980 general elections.17

During the 1981 elections to the Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (D.S.G.P.C.), 'in an attempt to divide Akali votes, the Congress (I) had asked the A.I.S.S.F. [All India Sikh Students Federation] to put up candidates for the Delhi gurdwaras whose campaign was led by Sant Bhindranwale. No A.I.S.S.F. candidate won.'18

At one point in 1983, the Talwandi-Tohra faction of the Akali Dal got a section of the S.G.P.C. to recommend Bhindranwale for the position of jathedar of the Akal Takht.19

According to India Today, in the months leading up to Operation Bluestar about a third of Longowal's S.G.P.C. members and district Akali Dal presidents had 'defected' to Bhindranwale.20

The Darbar Sahib's Public Relations Officer (P.R.O.) Narinderjit Singh Nanda recalled, 'Bhindranwale told me that within thirty days he was taking over the S.G.P.C.'21

However, given his poor record in electoral politics and a disinclination to play by the rules, he had little incentive to seek formal political office. He was already 'the uncrowned emperor.'22 As articulated by Time magazine, 'Bhindranwale had become so popular he had usurped the Akalis' authority.'23 He wielded more informal power than all of Punjab's formal political players combined and liked the idea of 'keeping all factions chasing his favor [whereby] no faction made a move in Punjab without considering the response it would draw from Bhindranwale.'24 Bhindranwale operated 'from inside a whale,'25 seemingly without concern for other points of view. 'In this independence lay much of Bhindranwale's appeal.'26 Yet, the same aloofness also represented his most significant weakness: a failure to participate in the democratic process. 'Villagers came to him with their problems, Bhindranwale pronounced judgments and called frightened policemen on the telephone to instruct them on how a matter was to be settled.'27 Subhash Kirpekar was 'perhaps the last journalist to meet the lion in his den.' During the interview Bhindranwale responded thus to a question on succession planning, 'It is not an elective post. I think whosoever attains the status of God will come up as my successor.'28 Myth #3: Bhindranwale Did Not Demand Khalistan In the absence of a universally accepted definition of the term 'Khalistan,' the usage here is consistent with its origin wherein Dr. Vir Singh Bhatti envisioned it in 1940 as a 'theocratic' monarchy, which would by definition be inconsistent with the Indian Constitution.29 Bhindranwale's standard response to the question of Khalistan, an independent Sikh state, was noncommittal: 'we are not in favor of Khalistan nor are we against it.'30 He often also clarified that if Khalistan came about, 'We won't reject it. We shall not repeat the mistake of 1947.'31 To that he added, 'if the Indian Government invaded the Darbar Sahib complex, the foundation for an independent Sikh state will have been laid.'32 The book Fighting for Faith and Nation: Dialogues with Sikh Militants by Cynthia Keppley Mahmood has received wide acceptance among radical Sikhs. In the book, Harpal Singh recalls a meeting with Bhindranwale during which the preacher remarked, 'staying in India would mean the genocide of the Sikhs.'33 The implication that anything short of a separate state would spell eventual disaster for the Sikhs amounted to an implicit vote for Khalistan. On other occasions Bhindranwale was more explicit, 'Frankly, I don't think the Sikhs can live with or within India.'34 The Dal Khalsa, responsible for hoisting a Khalistan flag at a Sikh convention on March 20, 1982 at Anandpur Sahib, were seen forming a protective ring around Bhindranwale when, in 1981, he was holding the police at bay at Chowk Mehta in an attempt to avoid arrest.35 Although 'Bhindranwale was never openly associated with the Dal Khalsa,' most observers regarded it as 'Bhindranwale's party.'36 In early 1983, India's intelligence is said to have obtained a copy of a letter from Bhindranwale to Jagjit Singh Chauhan in which he promised full support for Khalistan.37 Finally, while we're on the subject, we might as well also cover one other related myth, i.e. that Khalistan has never had any substantial support amongst Sikhs in India. In an interview with B.B.C. correspondent Mark Tully just days before his death, S.G.P.C. President Gurcharan Singh Tohra answered a question about his personal views on Khalistan by admitting that 'some personal desires are better kept hidden.'38 According to Ved Marwah, a former senior police officer on Indira Gandhi's 'select committee for monitoring Punjab affairs,' a majority of the Sikhs supported separatism in the wake of Operation Bluestar.39 In a recent interview,40 Lt. Gen. Kuldip Singh Brar estimated that if Khalistan had been declared prior to Operation Bluestar, 'a large section of the Punjab police might have crossed over to support Bhindranwale.' Overly optimistic claims by pro-India commentators that the Sikhs have 'moved on' are consistently belied by informed parties who note, '[Operation Bluestar] has not been forgotten, and you [the visitor] will find many people in Amritsar keen to explain the Sikh side of the story.'41 Myth #2: Only a Tiny Minority of Sikhs Revere Bhindranwale as a Martyr In Khushwant Singh's words, '[Operation Bluestar] gave the movement for Khalistan its first martyr in Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale.'42 In 1985, Harkishan Singh Surjeet had optimistically announced that Bhindranwale's martyr status would only be 'temporary.'43 However, on this day last year, Joginder Singh Vedanti, the jathedar of the Akal Takht, an approximate Sikh counterpart to the Vatican, formally declared Bhindranwale a 'martyr' and awarded his son, Ishar Singh, a siropa (robe of honor).44 The function was organized by the S.G.P.C., 'a sort of parliament of the Sikhs.'45 The Encyclopedia of Sikhism, edited by Harbans Singh, a widely respected scholar of Sikh studies, describes Bhindranwale as 'a phenomenal figure of modern Sikhism.'46 Bhindranwale's posters and speeches are among the 'most popular' items at Punjab's rural fairs, held on occasions such as the Hola Mohalla festival.47 Gurtej Singh Brar, a former I.A.S. officer and S.G.P.C. National Professor of Sikhism, was suspended from the I.A.S. for making the following statement: 'The Sikh nation theory has been current among the Sikhs since the time of Guru Nanak. There should be others like Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale to lead the Sikhs and take up their cause of righteousness and truth.'48 Several North American gurdwaras prominently display Bhindranwale's pictures at entrances and in langar (community kitchen) halls. This writer has personally witnessed the phenomenon at gurdwaras in Detroit, Michigan and Toronto, Ontario (see picture). In the words of Vir Sanghvi, one of India's leading political commentators, '[bhindranwale] remains a martyr in the eyes of many Sikhs. Even today, rare is the Sikh politician who will dare to call him what he was: a fanatic and a murderer.'49 Myth #1: Bhindranwale Was Not a Terrorist In 1985, Citizens for Democracy (C.F.D.), founded by Jayaprakash Narayan and chaired by the noted civil libertarian Justice V.M. Tarkunde, produced a report on the Punjab crisis. The report, banned in India because of its strong indictment of the state, has received wide acceptance within the diaspora Sikh community despite its acknowledgement of 'Bhindranwale's role in inciting violence.'50 Violent thoughts seemed second nature to Bhindranwale. He often made extremely cruel remarks with utmost sincerity, 'If a true Sikh drinks, he should be burnt alive.'51 Tavleen Singh discovered that in Bhindranwale's darbar (court), 'concepts like non-violence were mocked and sneering remarks made about Gandhi.'52 Perhaps Khushwant Singh said it best, 'He well understood that hate was a stronger passion than love.'53 Although the 'mad monk'54 was politically astute enough to recant vicious statements made in the heat of the moment, it is instructive to note just how bellicose he was when aroused.

Harmit Singh Batra was in the Darbar Sahib complex on April 13, 1978 and quotes Bhindranwale, 'We will not allow this Nirankari convention to take place. We are going to march there and cut them to pieces!'55

Following the clash with the Nirankaris on April 13, 1978, the 'Sant' and his cohorts were always armed. Bhindranwale often publicly recited his mantra, 'being armed, there is no sin greater than not seeking justice.'56 And they perceived plenty of injustice all around, which they rectified with the use of illegal force.

After the assassination of the Nirankari leader Gurbachan Singh on April 24, 1980, Bhindranwale is universally acknowledged to have remarked that if he ever met Ranjit Singh, the suspected killer, he would weigh him in gold (i.e. reward him with his weight in gold).57

On October 22, 1982, Bhindranwale made a public statement threatening the 'political and physical end' of anyone who didn't press for the full implementation of the Anandpur Sahib Resolution.58

On August 17, 1983, Bhindranwale asked Sikh youth to buy a motorcycle and a revolver and threatened to kill 5,000 Hindus in an hour if the police delayed the minibus he had sent to fetch Amrik Singh who had just been released from police custody.59

During a speech on September 20, 1983, Bhindranwale stated clearly that he would 'embrace' Sikhs who exacted revenge upon those who were guilty of torturing, killing, or humiliating Sikhs. He said, 'Getting away from there is your job, protecting you here [in the Darbar Sahib complex] is mine.'60

On November 17, 1983, Bhindranwale bluntly demanded 'that all Hindus should leave Punjab.'61

During a public speech delivered on May 24, 1984 at the Darbar Sahib complex, Bhindranwale openly admitted his complicity in the gruesome beheading of Surinder Singh Chinda for his role in the elimination of Bhindranwale's leading hit man, Surinder Singh Sodhi.62

Even Bhindranwale's staunchest supporters only go as far as stating, 'Bhindranwale consistently opposed violence against any innocent person.'63 The autocratic Bhindranwale had assumed singular jurisdiction over the guilt and innocence of a good portion of India's citizens. And to him lethal violence was a justified means of punishment for those whom he considered culpable. He was the legislature, executive and judiciary all rolled into one with complete disregard for the democratic concept of the separation of powers. The result was nothing short of 'ethnic cleansing.'64 Dilbir Singh (see above) related the following account of how masterfully Bhindranwale ordered the killing of Lala Jagat Narain, proprietor-editor of the Hind Samachar group of newspapers:

And in one edition Lala had written in an editorial comment that Taura [Tohra, then president of the S.G.P.C.] and Ajnoha [then jathedar of the Akal Takht] are traitors. On that day in a great fury he [bhindranwale] called upon someone to read aloud what Lala had said. There was quiet. 'Our turban has been torn from our heads,' he proclaimed. Then one of his followers asked, 'What are your orders?' Again in anger, he said 'Orders, you need orders! What orders? Are you blind?' Now you see he did not say anything. And they said it. 'O.K.' meaning thereby, we'll finish this man. So, then, 3-4 days later, Lala was coming from Ludhiana and they fired upon him.65

According to Chand Joshi, a veteran correspondent for The Hindustan Times, 'In the Nirankari Baba murder case, for instance, the C.B.I. claimed to have pin-pointed four suspects including Jarnail Singh Brar alias Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. The arrest warrants had been given to the Punjab police but were not served because of 'orders from the highest quarters.' '66 It is worth noting, 'The decision to release Bhindranwale was taken by the [indira Gandhi and Zail Singh] government. It was not the verdict of a court.'67 Finally, it is impossible to accept that the people closest to Bhindranwale could consistently perpetrate monstrous violence without his endorsement.

Nachhatar Singh, arrested by the police for the murder of Lala Jagat Narain, is said to have fingered Bhindranwale for ordering the killing.68

The hijackers of an Indian Airlines plane on September 20, 1981 claimed to be members of the Dal Khalsa and demanded the release of Bhindranwale, who had been arrested in connection with the murder of Lala Jagat Narain.69 In a speech, Bhindranwale 'praised his young lieutenants' for the hijacking.70

On July 18, 1982, a police party from the Beas Thana in Amritsar district stopped a jeep. Most of the occupants were residents of Bhindranwale's gurdwara Gurdarshan Parkash at Chowk Mehta. They attacked the police and were arrested. No case was initiated.71

The next day, Amrik Singh, Bhindranwale's most trusted lieutenant, and six close associates of Bhindranwale, including Bhindranwale's personal driver Kulwant Singh, were arrested for an attempt on the life of Joginder Singh Sandhu, the Nirankari Mandal's propaganda secretary.72

Concluding Remarks In closing, here is a sampling of additional points to ponder:

Whereas 'nobody was ever refused an interview,'73 he refused to surrender to anyone but sufficiently orthodox Sikh policemen.74

<LI>While he professed the highest standards of Sikhism, he practiced gender discrimination.75

<LI>Although he viewed modernity as evil, he had no compunctions about using modern firearms.

<LI>Whereas many Sikhs regard him as a 'messiah,'76 his 1984 prophecy failed to materialize: 'In the next ten years Sikhs will get their liberation. This will definitely happen.'77 Bhindranwale might well be the most polarizing figure in Sikh history. This essay acknowledges his numerous advocates but makes no apologies for expounding on the preacher's flaws. To the extent that the Sikhs revere him as a prophet and a martyr, his contradictions are likely to be emblematic of the paradoxes that inflict the Sikh community as whole. To grapple with Bhindranwale's inconsistencies is to critically evaluate the state of Sikhism today. Surain Singh Dhanoa was the senior-most bureaucrat in Punjab during the years immediately following Operation Bluestar.78 His viewpoint is representative of the denial that causes many in India to place responsibility for Operation Bluestar squarely at Bhindranwale's doorstep. According to Dhanoa, 'There would have been no Operation Bluestar [if] Bhindranwale had moved out of the Golden Temple complex.'79 However, Dhanoa and others fail to acknowledge New Delhi's primary role in the brinkmanship and lost opportunities prior to Operation Bluestar. Instances include the critical roles played by Sanjay Gandhi and Zail Singh of the ruling Congress party in 'promoting' Bhindranwale as a counterweight to the Akali Dal,80 the government's failure to arrest Bhindranwale even when he 'openly flouted the law' while touring New Delhi with an entourage 'brandishing illegal arms,'81 and Indira Gandhi's propensity for backing out of agreements (at one point 'three times in six months'82).83 Responsibility for Operation Bluestar and the 'dark decade'84 (mid-1980s to mid-1990s) that followed ought to be apportioned in proportion to the formal political powers and electoral mandates enjoyed by the parties involved: one, the various New Delhi administrations, mostly Congress-led; two, the various governments in Punjab, led by the Akali Dal, Congress, or New Delhi-appointed governors; three, the S.G.P.C.; and four, at the very bottom of the culpability scale, those, such as Bhindranwale, who held informal power only to the extent permitted by the inability and unwillingness of those wielding formal power to solve Punjab's problems.

[Matheen]

that's a lot of cut and paste......

[guptveer1469]

but its just one pm

copied from a article by Balbir Panth da Dookhi Punj