Ok`so Here Goes

[Mehtab Singh]

His last PM to me after which I blocked him off...

name me one question of mine that i asked that was answered

if you can't name them then why would you make such a claim.

basic question i asked was if bhindranwale stayed out of harmandar sahib congress would of bin forced to avoid operation bluestar, for ppl who said bhindranwale went to harmandar sahib to protect it well theirs no evidence plus congress would of had to worry about 15% of the sikhs in the army that would of rebelled, as well how could they recruit sikhs to risk their lives planning and attacking harmandar sahib then let them selves get shown on camera cleaning harmandar sahib and showing weapions from it. Then they'll say why 40 other gurdwaras get attacked and i told them ive done so much research and never heard of 40 other gurdwaras being attacked not even the world and asked ppl to name the 40 gurdwaras.

But congress is a power hungry money hungry party and did <admin-profanity filter activated> the sikhs for thier own profit

If you want to talk abotu sikh girls being forced to convert in england their was a bbc documantry posted were police officers interviewed said not one case of forced conversion or a girl being sold to a pak brothel has ever come up, yet all these story's are on the internet about sikh girls being forced to convert and sold to pak brothels. I actually believed some of the story's till that bbc documantry proved they were all lies

My final response...

Look dude, perhaps you have a lot of time on your hands. I clearly remember answering all these same questions put by you on both Tapoban and maybe even DiscoverSikhi. What exactly is your problem? I think your problem is that you want others to speak your language as well. For the last time, I am going to answer your questions. Don't bother sending a PM again because I am blocking you, and hope you quit Sikh Sangat as well, just like you fled from Tapoban and DiscoverSikhi. No one is going to buy your Congressiya propaganda on here. You can carry on blaming Sikh parents for everything, because you know well that it is these same parents who will make their kids aware about 1984, something you obviously don't want. Yes there are problems in the Sikh community like every other community, and yes parents are to be blamed for a good number of these problems. But we got you the first time man, you don't have to cry all over the place!

if bhindranwale stayed out of harmandar sahib congress would of bin forced to avoid operation bluestar

The government had been planning an attack 8 months before it actually took place. Whether Sant Ji was inside the complex or not didn't matter. They knew he was a real man who would never run away, and they already had decided to severe a blow to the Sikh qaum.

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Operat...ings/id/1819377

In October 1983, 600 top soldiers of the Indian army began rehearsing an assault on the Akal Takhat at a secret location in the Chakrata Hills about 150 miles north of Delhi. They constructed a replica of the Darbar Sahib complex for the training. (Ref: Mark Tully's "Amritsar: Mrs. Gandhi's Last Battle" Page 118). Reports of these plans reached the Sikh Leadership. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale along with Major General Shabeg Singh and other militants moved their quarters to Akal Takhat.

So its clear that Sant Ji knew what was coming and was prepared to defend Sri Akal Takhat even if it meant laying his life down.

Then they'll say why 40 other gurdwaras get attacked and i told them ive done so much research and never heard of 40 other gurdwaras being attacked not even the world and asked ppl to name the 40 gurdwaras.

Check this write up by Ram Narayan Kumar, a human rights activist who for your delight is a south Indian Brahmin Hindu.

Eminent writer and analyst, author of The Sikh Struggle and The Sikh Unrest & The Indian State, Ajanta Books International, Delhi, 1997. He lives mostly in Vienna and London. Excerpted from the author's monopraph submitted to Green College, Oxford, UK (Reuter Foundation Paper 128)

http://www.sikhreview.org/june2000/chronicle.htm

The army had isolated and stormed 42 other main Gurdwaras throughout Punjab. In the absence of a thorough investigation, it is difficult to estimate the casualties, but it is known that the operation against many Gurdwaras became bloody.

If you want to talk abotu sikh girls being forced to convert in england their was a bbc documantry posted were police officers interviewed said not one case of forced conversion or a girl being sold to a pak brothel has ever come up, yet all these story's are on the internet about sikh girls being forced to convert and sold to pak brothels. I actually believed some of the story's till that bbc documantry proved they were all lies.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

Police protect girls forced to convert to Islam

Extremist Muslims who force vulnerable teenage girls to convert to Islam are being targeted by police, Met chief Sir Ian Blair has revealed. Police are working with universities to clamp down on "aggressive conversions" during which girls are beaten up and forced to abandon university courses.

The Hindu Forum of Britain claims hundreds of mostly Sikh and Hindu girls have been intimidated by Muslim men who take them out on dates before terrorising them until they convert.

Sir Ian spoke about the problem at a conference organised by the forum.

A Met spokesman said: "Neighbourhood officers work with university authorities in London and we would encourage anyone targeted in this way to seek help and support and where necessary use third party reporting facilities if they do not want to contact police directly."

Ramesh Kallidai, of the Hindu Forum of Britain, said: "Some girls are petrified because they are constantly being phoned up, having their door knocked.

"One girl was beaten up on the street and others have been forced to leave university."

• Met police chiefs are to review a controversial stop-and-search power used in the fight against terrorism. Assistant commissioner Andy Hayman, the overall head of Britain's anti-terrorist operations, said he had concerns about the number of stops carried out in London using Section 44 legislation.

This is a news article from a newspaper website. You might want to call this propaganda by "GurSikhs" as well. Several people on at least 3 Sikh forums have answered you hundreds of times over the past several months. Now you might need to find a new forum and whine over there because everyone has had enough from you. Just a word of advice: When you make a post, atleast have the bloody patience to wait for the other person to respond and don't post a new message each time you scratch your head, because that makes the other person feel you are an impatient individual and he/she will more than likely ignore anything and everything you have to say, no matter how sensible. I told you the same thing very politely on DiscoverSikhi, but then again, if you don't understand polite language, you can't really blame anyone. It is not GurSikhs but you yourself who makes things up. So stop blaming those who disagree with you and speak out against your lies. Feel free to weep and wail about Bhagat Singh, Udham Singh and Raja Ranjit Singh if that makes you happy. These great men did their job, whether they were proper Sikhs or not. I personally never judged any of them as Sikh or GurSikh. For me they are all worth respect. Yes maybe their jeevan was not as perfect as a GurSikh's jeevan should be, but then whose jeevan today is spotlessly pure? Your friends in Congress definitely don't have a pure jeevan, hell they got Sikh blood on their hands man!

If you had a serious and genuine question you wouldn't be wailing till now. But then again, some people just ask to appear smart and intelligent, and in doing that they make a total and complete joke of themselves, which is what you've done. Just because you've been put on moderation gives you no liberty to carry on with your garbage by sending private messages (i.e. headache) to other members just because you don't want to stop.

What makes you think anyone is going to believe gibberish said by you or your friends from an online MSN group as compared to what was said by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji and Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale? I have tried my level best to answer you as decently and politely as possile on both DiscoverSikhi forum and Tapoban, but you've tested my patience more than enough. Don't bother sending another PM as I am blocking you. I don't give a damn if you continue to mourn about your questions not being answered, because you know it and I know it very well that they have been answered not once but at least 10 times on 3 different Sikh forums. You think you are very smart? You indirectly insult Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale and think no one figures it out? You are not that smart yet Mr. Congress!

over and out

[V]

bhindranwale stayed out of harmandar sahib congress wouldn't of attacked it, and i never defended congress im just not dumb enough to call them a hindutva organisation but they are similar to a mafia but their power and money hunger govt, hell their attacking the exsistance of ram just to build a bridge, so that shows how stupid most khalistanis are cause they claim congresss to be hindutva

Why was Indira Gandhi consulting the then army cheif S.K Sinha already 1982 about an attack on the Golden Temple. Bhindrawaley moved in 11 onths prior to the attach. She was considering an attack 18 months before?

Was the ghost of Bhindrawaley in the golden temple then? Why was it necessary to do it on the barsi of the fifth Guru? Why couldn't it have been done on a normal day - when theres not as much sangat as there is on a GURPURABH.

There are many unanswered questions about 84. They have no answers.

Mehtab Veer Ji, Why do you think the prison guards are rejecting Bhagat Singh changing his mind?

What makes you say Bhagat Singh REALLY didn't write it one day after meeting Bhai Sahib?

I do find it quite funny how you try to find someone who can PROVE that it was writen prior to those dates to prove everyone else wrong. The answer lies in your forth post in the other thread:

Bhai Sahib says it was October 4, 1930 at 6:00 PM, and most other sources on Bhagat Singh, some of which don't even his meeting with Bhai Sahib have the date of Bhagat Singh's article as October 5-6, 1930.

Whereas you are trying to find reference stating something else, most references state a date that doesn't suit your argument. Why can’t we just leave it at – Sikh or not - he was a great martyr…

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"Bhindranwale made repeated claims to the effect that he had no interest in political power, 'If I ever become president of the Akali Dal or the S.G.P.C. [shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee], an M.L.A., a government minister, or a member of parliament . . . I shall deserve a shoe-beating by you.'14,15

In contrast, we have the following examples of Bhindranwale's abundant political aspirations year after year:

During the S.G.P.C. elections of 1979, 'Of the forty candidates Bhindranwale put up [for a total of 140 seats], all but four were defeated.'16

'For all his protestations that he was not a politician, Bhindranwale campaigned actively for the Congress in three constituencies' during the 1980 general elections.17

During the 1981 elections to the Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (D.S.G.P.C.), 'in an attempt to divide Akali votes, the Congress (I) had asked the A.I.S.S.F. [All India Sikh Students Federation] to put up candidates for the Delhi gurdwaras whose campaign was led by Sant Bhindranwale. No A.I.S.S.F. candidate won.'18

At one point in 1983, the Talwandi-Tohra faction of the Akali Dal got a section of the S.G.P.C. to recommend Bhindranwale for the position of jathedar of the Akal Takht.19

According to India Today, in the months leading up to Operation Bluestar about a third of Longowal's S.G.P.C. members and district Akali Dal presidents had 'defected' to Bhindranwale.20 "

ok, I don't know what "scholar" put together this argment regarding baba jarnail singh's political aspirations. Could someone please tell this scholar that the SGPC does not hold "political power." The SGPC is the shiromani gurdwara parbandhak committee, they take car eof sikh gurdwaras and run educational instituions. they are also supposed to promote sikh culture and do sikhi parchaar with educational programs and the sort.

The SGPC cannot tax people in the state or the country, the SGPC cannot make treaties with foreign nations, the SGPC cannot print currency etc etc.

So if baba bhindrawaala did have candidates in SGPC elections, so what? all sikhs want the right men in place to take care of our gurdwaras, it doesn't mean a person is after political power. This ignorant example is just another example of non-sikhs and house-negro sikhs not understanding or not wanting to understand the sikh psyche and the miri piri aspect of sikhi dating back to the sixth Nanak.

Also, as for Baba Jarnail Singh being recommended for akal takhat jathedaar, again, hwo does this fit into any political office? the akal tkhat jathedaar is a sewak of the sikh quam, of teh panth. since when was the akala takhat jathedaar a politician? does vedanti have political power? can he declare chandigarh as a part of punjab? can he stop river waters running freely to other states from punjab?

if these people want to cut and paste arguments, at least paste something with some logic in it. its amazing how people use sikh terms and institutions in these arguments without even an iota of knowledeg about them.

i would also like more info on baba jarnail singh supporting the congress in the 1980 elections. because there is a big differnec between supporting the congress party as a whole and supporting three congress candidates who may have been honest and smart men/women. its not like every congress man/woman was an evil satan, maybe the congress fielded honest and worthy people whom baba jarnail singh supported, it is not uncommon.

now if baba jarnail singh said we hate all congressmen, then these peopel would say he was an akali chamcha working for the akalis.

i just want to end on this,

indians need to analyze their heroes before pointing fingers at ours. yes, baba jarnail singh said kill those that murder, loot, and dishonor sikhs, but that's what most indians if not all would do to people who do such things to hindus. what happened to sikh kharkoos who were caught, they were tortured and murdered. what happened to policemen and others who were caught by sikh kharkoos, they were killed. the situation in punjab reached that point because the indian justice system failed the sikhs. the problems started in 1947, the sikhs were calm for over 30 years, any person with a little courage to pick up a history book know the sikhs don't take anyone's nonsense for long before fighting back.

yes bhindrawaala said things which were fiery and sometimes just filled with anger, and even wrong. he was a human being.

bhulan andar sabh ko abhul guru kartar ||

that is why baba jarnail singh always said that i am a mere sewak of the panth, if the quam is awake today it is because of guru granth sahib ji, not me.

go and see how many kothis baba jarnail singh's family has in chandigarh or mohali or whatever. they didn't gain any wealth from there sacrifices, unlike these army waale and police waale who have the gall to question our heroes.

peace.

[guptveer1469]

greattttt

[Mehtab Singh]

What makes you say Bhagat Singh REALLY didn't write it one day after meeting Bhai Sahib?

Veer V, tell me one thing, who would you place more faith in: communists, prison guards, or Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji?

I do find it quite funny how you try to find someone who can PROVE that it was writen prior to those dates to prove everyone else wrong. The answer lies in your forth post in the other thread:

Bhai Sahib says it was October 4, 1930 at 6:00 PM, and most other sources on Bhagat Singh, some of which don't even his meeting with Bhai Sahib have the date of Bhagat Singh's article as October 5-6, 1930.

This fact was brought forth by people who have gone into getting to the bottom of this inconsistency. It came to light only later on that the communists wrote it and put Shaheed Bhagat Singh's name.

Whereas you are trying to find reference stating something else, most references state a date that doesn't suit your argument.

Bhai Sahib has mentioned the date AND the time. The communists as I said have manipulated the dates only to suit their agenda of atheism. It would be a big blow to their doctrine if they talked about Shaheed Bhagat Singh growing his kesh after meeting Bhai Sahib. I have posted the links of the various threads where this discussion has already taken place, on Sikh Sangat, Discover Sikhi as well as Tapoban.

Why can’t we just leave it at – Sikh or not - he was a great martyr...

Thats cool with me.

[S1ngh]

Mehtab Veer Ji, Why do you think the prison guards are rejecting Bhagat Singh changing his mind?

What makes you say Bhagat Singh REALLY didn't write it one day after meeting Bhai Sahib?

Veerjee, How you and other can prove and show the proof that bhagat singh wrote that article a day or two after he met bhai sahib?? (indian history books are not credible source at all)..

Not to burst the bubble, Bhagat Singh was young guy with full josh (the josh that national leaders lacked).. However keeping in mind "Bhagat Singh's buddy killed innocent Officer and in quickly admitted that he killed saunders.. Their target was scott but instead killed saunders who was not part of anything at all.

My only source is being passing on from generation to generation.. Bhagat singh did changed and didn't wrote that letter is because my distant relatives were freedom fighters and met bhagat singh and some of them also wrote books on topic of India Independence. If someone wants to do research on topic then they should get in touch with Prof. Malwinderjit Singh who is the official biographer of Bhagat Singh and his family. Don't believe in anything that is written after 1947 and specially by those who were not part of the freedom fight.

[proactive]

The biggest proof that something had changed in Bhagat Singh before his hanging was that he was keeping his Kesh. The photo below was taken during his last days. If he was a real atheist then keeping Kesh becomes meaningless and if anything having cut hair would be a protest in the communist mindset against religion which they believe to be the opium of the people.

[V]

Since when did the British have a cut-you-hair-service for prisoners?

Whether he kept his kes or not cannot be proved through a picture, unless you can show a picture of prisoners who had been prisoned for a year or two, who had short hair.

I cannot prove anything, but historians can, using various dating methods - not the exact date though. Point being there is no other (known) reference to indicate that he would suddenly have changed his mind.

No, I'm not relying on anything written post 1947 - But apart from the discourse between Bhai Randhir Singh and Bhagat Singh recording in his biography there is nothing else (as far as I'm aware) that supports that change in his lifestyle. Nothing. No prison guards, no visitors, noone else.

Also could you please share the findings of Prof Malwinder Singh, and what conclusions he’s reached on the issue?

As proactive once said in another context; during the British era they recorded virtually everything that was going on. What did they have to loose in revealing Bhagat Singh became a Sikh?

Communist or Sikh - they couldn't care less - both equality hate-worthy for them.

[THE WARRIOR]

Bhagat Singh being an atheist is frowned upon because we or many of us in our own insecurities proclaim to believe in a Creator God as the correct thing to do, correct way to think and believe non-believers being incapable of any spiritual heroism and sacrifice.

Bhagat Singh was a conscious human who sacrificed his life for freedom, for some of us the fact that he was not religious we cannot accept. All sorts of people and organisations try to monopolies on his legend. The term Atheist itself suggests a person who fundamentally cares only for his own right for existence his own survival, was this Bhagat Singhs mentality? He may not have believed in a creator God but he believed in the freedom of humanity the birthright of every human being. As important as God may be to us yet not having the same romance to stand on the gallows as he did, freedom was important to him, in a way that was his God. He truly believed in his cause and gave his life for it. How many of us here proclaiming to believe in God could do the same? There was no guarantee of conditional salvation in his ideology as we Godly religious people have in our religions. His was a selfless act truly worthy as a hero and a champion of freedom and humanity.

[proactive]

V

When Bhagat Singh was on the run from the British, he cut his hair to change his appearance. In prison he kept his hair and from the photo it seems that he was keeping his hair for a while. The point is that if he an atheist as he is supposed to have written a letter to that effect in prison then what was the point of his keeping his hair. Barbers were available in prison during that time otherwise gandhi would not have been able to keep his slaphead appearance!