1984 - What Really Happend?

[singh_comradz]

Just ask yourself what purpose is served by bringing this issue to the forefront again and again. Only those who've had sangat of a true sadhu sant will know why so many singhs hold true to Dhan Baba Takhur Singh ji's bachan, in the face of relentless name-calling and "taksali bashing".

All the different branches of the taksal have done so and are continuing to do so the seva in their Guru-given capacity. To belittle it's seva is very low behaviour. Taksal is not set on "pause" until Santji returns. The seva is continuing through it's numerous students spread all over the world. Sure, there isn't anyone like Baba Takhur Singh ji or Sant Jarnail Singh ji to give more leadership, but the service Taksal was started for is still continuing.

I will say this much, the bachan of Brahm-roop mahapursh like Baba Takhur Singh ji don't go empty. Never have and never will.

It is up to you if you wish to ridicule your fellow brothers who hold true to mahapursh bachans.

[anom7]

u can say the bachan of baba je will come true

but to follow anything, and i mean ANYTHING, blindly is stupid and guru je told us not to do this

baba je was a great man, he did way mor stuff than me, none of us can jjudge him ever

but he had his own reasons for saying wa he said, look at taksal now, its leaderless and thas y maybe baba je said ye ye sant jes alive, just do ure thing

but sant je is shaheed, we cant deny the truth when its in frot of our eyes, we cant let our own ignorance blind us

sant je was great, but tha time has passed

they are gone, its up to everyone here and now to determine what will happen

no one magical is gonna come and save us, its us who are here

its up to each indivudal to walk with ankh, not take anything from anybody, to sto walkking with their head low, and re,mebr our past and be the shers we are

taksal is a schooll to teach banee, thas it

it is still doing this. sure no one like sant bhindranwale is in taksal, someone who can awake the panth, at the mopmet

but someone always rises up, the panth nevr sleeps for to long

1978 woke us up before, and well wake up ahgaiin

our history will never be forgotten, and our panth will only flourish

but we cant look to anyone to come bak, we cant except someone to save us

its up to us indivudually to start learning from guru je, try to read banee understand what it realy means

to read our hsitory, and see what hapepned, becaus etheir is NOTHJING as amazing as our history

jarnail singh, khalistan might not be ready to be made right now

but tha sbecause we are not ready to have it, so many of our own people dont even kno the rpoblems

punjab is being destroyed, we gotta wake up and see this

our water is ALM,OST GONE, without are water were NOTHING

punjab will be a memoery of what it was, a grea land where soormai came from, where the vedas were written, where guru nanak dev je was born and were sikhi flourished

drugs are being pumped into punjab, and serious drugs which will leave someone messed for their whole life

once ure doing heroin or stuff like that, its stronger than almos tevery druge, and will screw ure future up nicley

punjab gov ignores the needs of our people,. and sthese babai like raam rheem, radhaswami, nirankari get FULL support from the government

rss is spreading its crap, as so many other people are

how much longer our sardaars gonna be a soruce for jokes in punjab?

does everyone forget we used to be respected, and feared by tyrannts?

a sardaar was a proud thing to be, sikhs were the [pride of india

and now were made to look like idiots, and people r forgetting about our history

people r forgetting who they are

we need to remebr who we are, and unite together

than anything will be possible for us, khalistan, anything

[guptveer1469]

jarnail singh

u really want to see a map of khalistan?

just check with ur local gurdwaras if they have a copy of the 2005/6 calendar published by khalistan house, brussels, belgium. it has a cool map of khalistan with good explainations why those areas be included.....

[swordsedge]

WJKK WJKF

You need to know wat your country will look like. how big it will be? who will rule? will it be democratic? wats the economy gonna be based at?

Hindus and muslims never devided the INDIA into two parts. its the british who decided their border because to make a country, to make a nation, to make a land- you need to define the border of it.

YES, ITS VERY VERY IMPORTANT TO SEE ALL THESE THINGS BEFOREHAND.....can believe you said that "why do sikhs needs to know everything beforhand?".... its gonna be sikh land and if sikhs dont know and ask these questions, then who would????? i think you should have gone to uni if you want to know more....!!!

bhul chuk maaf

wjkk wjkf

Veerji you don't know your history.

Gandhi wanted a united India and didn't want Pakistan to be created - he fought tooth and nail to prevent Pakistan ever being created. It was Muslim League who knew Pakistan was the only solution because they knew the Hindus would never give them equal rights in India. Gandhi even offered Jinnah the Kursi of being first President of India and still he refused it because he knew Gandhi and the Hindu community were lieing to them.

Muslim League and British both said the creation of Khalistan in 1947 could take place and they would enable it but us Sikhs ourselves chose not to because we believed Gandhi.

How wrong we were!

British carved out Pakistan not because of Muslims who only wanted to protect their own rights but because of the treachery of the lieing two-faced untrustworthy Gandhi.

Jarnailaa the trustworthyness of Gandhi's vision of India was shown in 1947 when Punjab was split and countless of your brothers & sisters lost their lives.

the Consititution of India was formed in the 1950s and Sikhs refused to sign it because Sikhs were not given equal status to Hindus. Our religion was not even recognised as a faith!

Then when all other States were created along language lines and Sikhs were ignored, Sikhs again fought the Punjabi Suba movement to get our rights and our language recognised.

Jarnailaa again many of your brothers and sisters lost their lives in this movement.

Jarnailaa many of your brothers and sisters again died in 1978 when the Government-supported Narakhdharis and Police shot down 13 Sikhs.

Jarnailaa live up to your name - Jarnail.. Singh.. Khalsa.. Someone with your name does not look right putting his beard under the shoe of Indian Sarkaar.

Regarding creation of Khalistan, boundaries, economy, who will rule, how we will rule...

We are neither for nor against Khalistan - we only ask for our human rights as Sikhs. It isn't written anywhere that from the beginning to the end of time that Sikhs should answer whether we want Khalistan. We answered it by spending the past 60-odd years as Slaves - isn't that enough?

the foundations of Khalistan were dug in 1984 and filled with the blood of our Shaheeds. Those foundations are stronger than you can possibly fathom..

it's possible Khalistan will stretch from Delhi to New York even.. who knows? nobody does - all that matters is Sikhs want their rights, and 60-odd years of Slavery is too much to bear and the GOVERNMENT OF INDIA ahould answer this question of whether they will give us our rights or give us Khalistan.

[Bijla Singh]

You need to know wat your country will look like. how big it will be? who will rule? will it be democratic? wats the economy gonna be based at?

Once again, these things are decided after the country is established. I can give numerous examples. We can have rough idea of how big it will be but it will not be certain until both parties sit down and negotiate. Regardless, Khalistan will survive. Many countries today including USA have bordering issues. Economic policies evolve and need modification as the needs arise. One set of policies today won’t work tomorrow. FCC, IRS, NSA etc were all established based on circumstances and much later than USA’s independence. I am pretty sure that no ordinary citizen knows all of the government’s policies of their country. Asking for economic policies of a country that has not been established is ridiculous.

Hindus and muslims never devided the INDIA into two parts. its the british who decided their border because to make a country, to make a nation, to make a land- you need to define the border of it.

You should get a copy of “Selected Documents on Partition of India” by Kirpal Singh and study a bit of history. British worked closely with both parties and it was the so-called leaders who wanted to divide the land and our precious Punjab. How many Hindus out of 300 millions knew the borders of their country to be in 47? Heck, even their future leaders did not even know this. Your argument is simply illogical. One can support a place (country) to enjoy freedom without having to know its borders. I do not deny the fact that Sikhs should know their history and which areas must be included in Khalistan (Punjab, Haryana, Himachal and some parts of Rajasthan) but just because some supporters don’t know doesn’t mean they can speak for their Sikh rights.

YES, ITS VERY VERY IMPORTANT TO SEE ALL THESE THINGS BEFOREHAND.....can believe you said that "why do sikhs needs to know everything beforhand?".... its gonna be sikh land and if sikhs dont know and ask these questions, then who would????? i think you should have gone to uni if you want to know more....!!!

I have already explained it. If a 10 year old Sikh kid shouts “Khalistan Zindabad” will you be running towards him with pencil and paper and ask him to draw a map of future Khalistan? Knowing the borders and supporting a homeland are two separate topics. My arguments are based on real world examples. Sikhs demand Khalistan not because they are at disagreement with India over borders and economic policies but because they want the freedom to live as Sikhs and practice their religion. Can you name some of the countries that had everything setup prior to independence? If USA, Canada, Pakistan, India and many other countries did not know their borders and economic policies prior to independence and are surviving today then it leaves no doubt that Khalistan too will survive even if Sikhs don’t have a constitution drafted.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Just ask yourself what purpose is served by bringing this issue to the forefront again and again. Only those who've had sangat of a true sadhu sant will know why so many singhs hold true to Dhan Baba Takhur Singh ji's bachan, in the face of relentless name-calling and "taksali bashing".

All the different branches of the taksal have done so and are continuing to do so the seva in their Guru-given capacity. To belittle it's seva is very low behaviour. Taksal is not set on "pause" until Santji returns. The seva is continuing through it's numerous students spread all over the world. Sure, there isn't anyone like Baba Takhur Singh ji or Sant Jarnail Singh ji to give more leadership, but the service Taksal was started for is still continuing.

I will say this much, the bachan of Brahm-roop mahapursh like Baba Takhur Singh ji don't go empty. Never have and never will.

It is up to you if you wish to ridicule your fellow brothers who hold true to mahapursh bachans.

everyone has their own interpretation. No one disrespected baba Thakur Singh. For you, his views may indicate that Baba Jarnail singh ji is physically alive.

For me, personally, I think he meant that Baba Jarnail Singh is alive, meaning his vision, his passion for truth and justice, his charisma, is alive within the Panth and will "come back" in the form of a new movement.

I personally never met or heard baba thakur singh speak, so I'm not sure if he told people to literally take his words. I'm basing my views on what people have said that he said.

I agree with Tera. There is no savior for sikhs but akaal purakh. sikhs don't wait for a Messiah. Every gursikh is a roop of guru sahib. and such people don't have to place hopes in a return of a certain individual.

yes baba jarnail singh ji is alive, everytime we remember him, he is alive. People are only dead when forgotten, i got tis quote from somewhere.....

anyways...

peace.

respect to swordsedge.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Bijla, just ask him if bhagat singh and Udham singh knew what the borders of india were going to be.....

Bhagat singh was hanged in 1931. Uddham singh was hanged in 1940.

look at the borders during their freedom movements and present borders of India.

and just for starters, if you insist on knowing a border, check out the map of punjab, you would be about 80% there.

peace.

[SunSingh]

In addition to what some of the posters have stated, there were a number of other somewhat complex issues that lead to 1984.

-human rights abuses against sikhs. Sikhs were not given redress for these

-water rights. river water being taken from punjab without just compensation.

-greater autonomy for punjab as a province within india. they essentially wanted to change the power sharing structure between teh central government and the states so that the states would have greater power (within india). a semi-autonomous region was actually promised to sikhs for joining with hindus.

large, nonviolent morchas continually won and wore down the indian govt. however, the govt refused to deliver on things they promsied they would do (to end teh morchas). an election was coming up and indira didn't want to appear weak on terrorism. so she ordered the attack to win an election. the crazy thing is, that it was indiria herself who had made sant ji look like a terrorist when he wasn't as part of her political games.

in 84 dozens of other sikh temples were attacked as well, so it wasn't just about sant ji. it was an attempt to crush the chardi kalah of the sikh community.

see the book 'the gallant defender' by AR Darshi, a former magistrate and joint secretary to the punjab, for more info. Darshi ji tells a very detailed and behind the scenes story of what happened. the book is online at http://www.burningpanjab.com/gallantdefender/index.htm