Keeping A Pugh

[s8220]

Hi,

I'm assuming most people here have never cut their hair. well, I had a pugh until 17, and then cut my hair. but last year or two i've become a sikh (i don't classify myself as one before because i knew nothing about our religion). I feel like I should keep Kesh now but i have a few issues i was hoping someone could help resolve:

1. i toyed with the idea a few months ago and got the impression that my sister (i respect her a lot) though now is the wrong time for me to start and that i should do it once i qualify. hence, i'm a tad nervous to tell them.
   
2. I've kinda just stopped shaving about a week ago because I had two dreams:
   

[s8220]

Hi,

I'm assuming most people here have never cut their hair. well, I had a pugh until 17, and then cut my hair. but last year or two i've become a sikh (i don't classify myself as one before because i knew nothing about our religion). I feel like I should keep Kesh now but i have a few issues i was hoping someone could help resolve:

1. i toyed with the idea a few months ago and got the impression that my sister (i respect her a lot) though now is the wrong time for me to start and that i should do it once i qualify. hence, i'm a tad nervous to tell them.
   
2. I've kinda just stopped shaving about a week ago because I had two dreams:
   a) first dream was me talking to the devil. devil told me how i was screwed because i've already committed far too many sins and that i don't have a chance in hell at salvation.
   b)a dream the next night where i'm told that i'm dying and haven't got much time left. i've been thinking about these dreams and i realised, i need to choose my path and choose it now.
   
3. i'm a 5th yr medic. the day after my 2nd dream my new consultant (obs and gynae) tells us to keep shaven nice and neat for the expectant mothers etc. i couldn't help but chuckle (on the inside, she's scary as hell). i'm worried because i can't run around looking scruffy and i'm also terrified of her.
   
4. it's been abhout a week since i last shaved and i look really 'dirty' at the moment.
   
5. do i just grow my beard now? i think it's inappropriate for me to keep a turban considering i've got pretty short hair straight away. advice?
   
6. what's the difference between a pugh and a dastaar?
   
7. when i'm doing certain procedures (now and when i qualify), i can't keep a flowing beard. it's not clean for the patient (exposed wounds etc). but i've heard some people speaking very strongly against tying it up. i'm a bit confused. advice?
   

i'd really appreciate some help. i know it's a long post!

1. 
   

[V]

Bhaji;

I'm very happy for you that you have made up your mind that you want keep your kes and keep a dastar/pagh, that's great!

If anyone can answer your questions, it is you yourself. No-one can stand here and tell you (no matter how much they think they can) IT'S THE RIGHT TIME - GO FOR IT. Or No Singh, It's the WRONG TIME. WAIT.

That's something you need to assess. You're in the circumstance, you need to face it.

You need to get your priorities straight - how much do you want to do this? How important is it that you do this now? Are you YEARNING to do it, or is it "oh well, I'll go for it." If there is a thirst, go for it! Don't waver. If you're still in between "puta nahi, I dunnu." You need to assess whats stopping you, and how important these things are for you.

I personally don't think it's inappropriate at all to keep a turban, despite the fact that you've got short hair (but know many in your situation who'd agree with you). Personally, I don't see a problem.

Pagh and Dastar are two words used synonymously for the Turban. It is more common to refer to the "triangular" (samosa) turban as "pagh", and a round turban as a dastar, but in the end of the day, they're both the same.

As for tying your beard, although many don't agree with doing it due to "aesthetic reasons," I think most people agree that when it comes for profession reasons, there's nothing wrong with tying it. Again you need to assess it. What’s most important for you - what other people think or what you think your Guru thinks? Personally, I don't think the Guru would ask you to drop your profession (and five years of hard work) just because it requires you to tuck your beard, although some Sikhs might

I think you yourself need to ponder upon this yourself. How much do you want to do this? Do you want to do this now, or do you want to wait with doing it (due to the various reasons/circumstances you are in.) How much do you yearn to do this. How thirsty are you…

Only you can assess your circumstances. As one of the members frequently say on this forum: “Go and ask Maharaj.”

I suggest you go and take a Hukamnama, or ask one of the local elders to take a hukamnama for you and explain its meaning since, chances are, it might solve you dilemma

[Guest Guest]

Those are really good questions....I was never sikh either...we all feel like that. Its quite strange the number of people you meet and they will tell you that they were ever sikh in the first place. I guess its cos sikhi is a journey and its like how we grow and learn about ourself. Even now we never really know who we are but I should not get into the philosophy of these things.

If you were my friend I would give you the following advice.

1. If your going to become a sikh then became a sikh because you believe in the teachings of the Guru. Don't do it for the sake of a dream regarding salvation.

2. There is no time like the now. There are a lot of medic singhs are on this forum and some of them started halfway through their clinical training keeping beard. The thing is its best to do it now as you will get used to it.

This is what Malkeet is doing. He is in his final year so has exams now - I don't know if he will post. But basically if you do it later on then the chances are your going to keep putting it off for one reason or the other.

Why not now? Its the best time since later on the pressures are going to be more!

3. Forget what consultants say. They are not God, most of the time they just put their own opinion into it. I got told the other day that *actually won't mention it* But there are singhs with dhara sahib. You just brush it.....also bits don't fall out....

Its like how we don't shed arm hair, eyebrow hair, eyelash hair. Sometimes people assume things especially when they don't know much about it which is probably what the consultant is doing. Like for instance I tell people I have never cut my hair and they assume my hair extend below my feet forever..even medics think this! You then say erm nah hair has a maximum length. I always give them the eyelashes example and say you've never cut your eyelashes but they are not touching your tummy.

4. If you feel dirty then erm u sure u wanna keep a beard? I kinda feel you don't have the right perspective os why you want to keep. Keeping it is actually supposed to make you feel content. Its a sign where you are saying that you are at one with yourself. This is at one with yourself externally and internally.

5. If you really wanna then grow it but make sure the reasons are right! Also just tie a little turban. My dad cut his kesh and dhari once. He felt so bad. So he started to just tie a turban with no hair. It was really funny to watch since there was no hair underneath but slowly his head hair grew (took 5 years!) and his beard grew faster....he tied a turban regardless. He too did not have enough hair for a joora but he wanted to become a sikh again so he did both. Likewise if your serious about it then do both!!

6. The difference is in the tying. Dastaar is tied in a circular fashion. Whilst a pagh has a twist in the front when you tie.

7. Again I don't think the beard is dirty but you wear gloves, aprons etc to reduce infection control and in all honesty hands are more dirty. You can do suturing etc as long as your face does not touch the patient BUT if you think it will then wear the facemask they wear for theatre. Hope thats k.

Ultimately starting is gonna be hard...so make sure you have the right reasons cos it gets easy to look for excuses. Lastly forgive my mistakes and good luck with whatever you decide.

[mskcan]

I'm assuming most people here have never cut their hair.

Most people probably have had it done to them, like when they are kids and came into this world trusting that their families would take care of them. Really doesn't matter how you start, its all statistics, some have their hair cut some don't and who knows how they end up, its all statistics.

well, I had a pugh until 17, and then cut my hair. but last year or two i've become a sikh (i don't classify myself as one before because i knew nothing about our religion).

At the very least consider yourself Gurmukh, because if you don't believe in yourself who is going to believe in you?

I feel like I should keep Kesh now but i have a few issues i was hoping someone could help resolve:

1. i toyed with the idea a few months ago and got the impression that my sister (i respect her a lot) though now is the wrong time for me to start and that i should do it once i qualify. hence, i'm a tad nervous to tell them.
   Family will be the greatest challenges, I think we've all been there (well I have), but 'no body knows better about what we should be doing with our lives than family' Right? No? You need to understand within yourself there is an awakening occuring. To make you realise this take an example of the ego, or as I like to call it Edging God Out. Why is it that when people are born to a certain nation they most often have a national pride. This is the group ego, something that we are conditioned to identify with. That is, the thoughts that we have are influence by others so that we conform to be more like 'them', or assimilated to the masses. The other ego is the one closest to us, we all have it. That is all the events and interactions and understanding that we have interacted with in our lives that creates what is our conditioned thoughts. Don't believe that our thoughts are conditioned? Try to remain silent for 10 minutes and test that you can remain thoughtless. It is simply a part of us. Being in the Medic profession perhaps you will recall the words of Descartes, "I think, therefore I am". Do you buy it? I don't, because if we were only our thoughts then we would be just that thoughts. In order to understand that we are able to think, we must be the Awareness behind those thoughts. That is the Spirit that calls to us often in our conscious and subconscious. The one we tend to ignore when we are in groups, or when we attempt to conform to others views of ourselves...
   
2. I've kinda just stopped shaving about a week ago because I had two dreams:
   a) first dream was me talking to the devil. devil told me how i was screwed because i've already committed far too many sins and that i don't have a chance in hell at salvation.
   I'm not going to be one to interpret your dreams for you, Freudian psychology is not my forte. From what I know very few have any vivid dream experiences that actually help that person. Perhaps it is a dream that is nudging at you.
   b)a dream the next night where i'm told that i'm dying and haven't got much time left. i've been thinking about these dreams and i realised, i need to choose my path and choose it now.
   Wow, what an enlighting insight into the reality of life. Are we not all dying whence we are born? Physically yes, but the spirit is evolving at the very least. THis is why we continue to come into this world. Once as rocks and stones, then as single celled organisms, for billions of years we would migrate through leaves, trees, blades of grass, to machlee (fish) and through the dinosaurs to now. Such is the reality of life revealed by the Saints. Humanity is also evolving and to awaken in this lifestyle at perhaps the most critical junction in human history is something.
   
3. i'm a 5th yr medic. the day after my 2nd dream my new consultant (obs and gynae) tells us to keep shaven nice and neat for the expectant mothers etc. i couldn't help but chuckle (on the inside, she's scary as hell). i'm worried because i can't run around looking scruffy and i'm also terrified of her.
   Meh, I have at least 5 friends who are Sardar's who are in medicine. I work in hospitals myself. There may be a short transition period where you appear 'scruffy' but how long will that last in the overall journey of life?
   
4. it's been abhout a week since i last shaved and i look really 'dirty' at the moment.
   I recall when I was at that stage, it just passed like a dream
   
5. do i just grow my beard now? i think it's inappropriate for me to keep a turban considering i've got pretty short hair straight away. advice?
   I didn't even bother growing the hair out. Just put a Dastaar on straight away. The look you begin with is not how its going to be forever. It will evolve as you mature into it. When I began I was a little self-conscious, I'll admit it. But that is when the ego gets away with creating our reality. As soon as we re-internalise ourselves we realise how powerful the Bana can be.
   
6. what's the difference between a pugh and a dastaar?
   None that I know of. Anyways, you'll have a bout 100 more resources than anyone had a few years ago: http://www.sikhnet.com/s/tyingturbans
   I have learned 2 styles, and seriously I just made the first one up. Seriously I still wear the same one (gol - as in round) one as when I made it up. The other is the nok style or the traditional Point pagh which is a little more complex and hard work. There is a secret to tying a nice clean pagh, and I'm sure people here will give you the tips that you need to do it.
   
7. when i'm doing certain procedures (now and when i qualify), i can't keep a flowing beard. it's not clean for the patient (exposed wounds etc). but i've heard some people speaking very strongly against tying it up. i'm a bit confused. advice?
   In certain cases, as you mentioned it would be contraindicated not to have a facial mask or other on. Your beard will take years to come in, and at least for now the mask will be sufficient to cover the small beard you have. PLUS you will have so many legal sources like Sikhcoalition and Saldef and others to back you up in case you need it. Today there is no adversity on our paths except our own fears. If you desire to Create a new and wonderful world for yourself, then be steadfast in that belief. For that is all we have.
   

i'd really appreciate some help. i know it's a long post!

Whatever help you need a long the way just continue to come here and voice yourself. If you want to get in touch with other medics email me, or I can ask my friends.

As above regards

[s8220]

wow, those were some incredibly insightful posts.

just to clarify a few points!

the dreams...well, i'm not a fan of interpreting dreams either. I certainly am not considering keeping kesh because of them. I've been doing paath for a few years now, and I've tried to understand most of what I do as I go along (although i doubt i'll truly ever really understand it, more likely just be able to translate it). I've been toying with the idea but...these dreams just shocked me into reality. We are all stepping closer to our deaths and as it's written in gurbani, "Marna chit na aavai". I've done some pretty bad things in my past but for my future, I feel like i need to choose my path now. And I certainly don't want to choose the path I just came from. Hence, I feel like now is a good time to start...

with regards to hair falling off, I don't think i'll be shedding left right and centre (although if my chest hair is anything to go by...). but I just wonder how things like surgery would work etc. The question I have is whether tying a beard up is ok. not for looks or appearance, i prefer the open beard, but mainly just to maintain aseptic techniques when inserting chest drains etc.

it'd be awesome to know some singh paajis with whom I could discuss these concerns - please, pass on my email address! i've been kinda worried about this for a while...

one last question which i feel is quite important. Amrit vela. I'm currently doing obs and gynae and i experienced my first 24-hour on call yesterday. it was horrific. it meant i was awake for about 29 hours (getting up, doing paath, getting there and the journey back). finding time to do paath when u're that busy is really hard and very hit n' miss. i don't usually wake up at amrit vela, but as i was still awake at 2am i though, challo, i shall try. firstly, it was bloody hard to keep my eyes open and i fell asleep for a minute or two until my phone went off (colleague also on call). i woke up n resumed my Jap Ji Sahib where i left off. but then i had to go attend to a patient so Anand Sahib, Jaap Sahib went out of the window - i had no time to do them.

I wonder, is the medical life-style with on calls etc compatible with an Amrit Dhaari lifestyle?

[lowest of the low singhni]

I wonder, is the medical life-style with on calls etc compatible with an Amrit Dhaari lifestyle?

Yes. My mum's Amritdhari and is a consultant in Obs/Gynae, has been for many years.

[Temporary]

Hi,

I'm assuming most people here have never cut their hair. well, I had a pugh until 17, and then cut my hair. but last year or two i've become a sikh (i don't classify myself as one before because i knew nothing about our religion). I feel like I should keep Kesh now but i have a few issues i was hoping someone could help resolve:

1. i toyed with the idea a few months ago and got the impression that my sister (i respect her a lot) though now is the wrong time for me to start and that i should do it once i qualify. hence, i'm a tad nervous to tell them.
   
2. I've kinda just stopped shaving about a week ago because I had two dreams:
   a) first dream was me talking to the devil. devil told me how i was screwed because i've already committed far too many sins and that i don't have a chance in hell at salvation.
   b)a dream the next night where i'm told that i'm dying and haven't got much time left. i've been thinking about these dreams and i realised, i need to choose my path and choose it now.
   
3. i'm a 5th yr medic. the day after my 2nd dream my new consultant (obs and gynae) tells us to keep shaven nice and neat for the expectant mothers etc. i couldn't help but chuckle (on the inside, she's scary as hell). i'm worried because i can't run around looking scruffy and i'm also terrified of her.
   
4. it's been abhout a week since i last shaved and i look really 'dirty' at the moment.
   
5. do i just grow my beard now? i think it's inappropriate for me to keep a turban considering i've got pretty short hair straight away. advice?
   
6. what's the difference between a pugh and a dastaar?
   
7. when i'm doing certain procedures (now and when i qualify), i can't keep a flowing beard. it's not clean for the patient (exposed wounds etc). but i've heard some people speaking very strongly against tying it up. i'm a bit confused. advice?
   

i'd really appreciate some help. i know it's a long post!

1. 
   

Veer Ji, great news that you have decided to "become" a sikh. I know so many people (were friends but now people :D ) who went to med school and cut their hairs etc because of the same impression they had as you are in. But i also know a lot of doctors who kept their rehat and are great docs now. Medicine isn't about how you look but how good you are at what you're doing. And i feel no shame telling you, "If you want to look good my veer you are in the wrong profession, especially if you are going to be a ob/gyn. (Hope you heard of something called modeling :D )" You should not be worried about at all that you will have hairs etc, try to keep it neat and tied, wear pagh in a good way try to look proffesional. If you need help w/ anything feel free to ask, or if you need an ameritdhari doc can also make available.

And i don't know where you're doing those procedures but as far as i'm concerned you should be well prepared, masked etc (BSI????). Please pm your questions..

[Guest Guest]

So jio...have u made a decision or do u need more time?

[s8220]

So jio...have u made a decision or do u need more time?

yup, made my decision and i'm sticking to it. I'm feeling quite eagre and wish my baal would grow quicker - I can't wait to start wearing a pagh!

I told my family, they're all cool with it. My oldest penji didn't say anything but I could see on her face that she thinks now is the wrong time. but she's cool with it. my other older penji said i look better clean shaven but she's cool with it too. mum was fine as well! I've started telling my friends. Not that it matters but they seem generally supportive. Although i'm getting fed up with "mate, you won't get any girls..." - the standard response of "well, i don't care because that's not important" is starting to wear thin!

i figure i'll cross all the obsticles when they come. Gotta be brave! After all...

Manneh maarag taak na pai,

Manneh patsio pargat jai,

Manneh mag na chaleh panth,

Manneh dharam seti sandbandh

Aisa naam niranjan hoi, je ko mann janeh man koi

thank you to everyone who helped!