Guru Ji's Family Tree

[Bundha]

No Vampire you are wrong.

From the beginning Guru Nanak Dev Ji stated the third path which culminated in the Khalsa. By rejecting both Hindus and Mululs Guru Sahib Ji forged a direct path that both the others had abandoned and that path was Sikhi. The word Sikh came into being at the time of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Guru sahib Ji was not a reformist, else there was no need for dhurki bani, they could have change Hindusim from within. Instead Guru Ji showed us the true way, even Guru Ram Das Ji created the chaar Lava for our own anand karaj ceremony. So Sikhs did not proclaim a new way, it was proclaimed by Guru Nanak Dev from the outset.

If Guru Nanak Dev ji was a Hindu reformist, why write the Shabad and spread it to humanity? Why claim to speak “Dhur ki Baani”, or God's own true word? Reform in religions have never meant introducing a new holy scripture to a faith this would be considered blasphemy. Yet Guru Nanak Dev Ji did exactly this, Guru Ji rejected all other scriptures and spoke only the word of God as spoken by god. Also, if Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a Hindu reformist, then why did Muslims call him Pir (holy saint)? Why would a people from a Semitic faith with no connections to Vedic thought call a Hindu reformist a Pir? There have been no examples of any other Hindu Swamis, Acharyas etc being called "Pir" by Muslims.

The truth is that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was the Truth, he spoke the truth, he spread the Truth and all those people with a higher enough spiritual intellect, irrespective of faith, recognised this.

[THE WARRIOR]

Maybe Nanaks way had always been the way even before him, as time passes corrosions set in. The concept of one omnipresent creator is not unique to Sikhi. In Dasam Granth Guru Gobind Singh ji explains his purpose in coming to this earth, in short those charged with responsibility to enlighten the masses having shortcomings, they were a few. Guru Ji doesn’t condemn society or and belief system as a whole; only the condemnation of empty religious actions and the perpetrators of such actions who lead people astray.

[TheVampire]

No Vampire you are wrong.

From the beginning Guru Nanak Dev Ji stated the third path which culminated in the Khalsa. By rejecting both Hindus and Mululs Guru Sahib Ji forged a direct path that both the others had abandoned and that path was Sikhi. The word Sikh came into being at the time of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Guru sahib Ji was not a reformist, else there was no need for dhurki bani, they could have change Hindusim from within. Instead Guru Ji showed us the true way, even Guru Ram Das Ji created the chaar Lava for our own anand karaj ceremony. So Sikhs did not proclaim a new way, it was proclaimed by Guru Nanak Dev from the outset.

If Guru Nanak Dev ji was a Hindu reformist, why write the Shabad and spread it to humanity? Why claim to speak “Dhur ki Baani”, or God's own true word? Reform in religions have never meant introducing a new holy scripture to a faith this would be considered blasphemy. Yet Guru Nanak Dev Ji did exactly this, Guru Ji rejected all other scriptures and spoke only the word of God as spoken by god. Also, if Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a Hindu reformist, then why did Muslims call him Pir (holy saint)? Why would a people from a Semitic faith with no connections to Vedic thought call a Hindu reformist a Pir? There have been no examples of any other Hindu Swamis, Acharyas etc being called "Pir" by Muslims.

The truth is that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was the Truth, he spoke the truth, he spread the Truth and all those people with a higher enough spiritual intellect, irrespective of faith, recognised this.

Do not agree.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji consists of shabads written by those who lived prior to Guru Nanak Ji.

Kabir Ji, Farid Ji etc - So Sikhi concepts were around prior to the time of Guru Nanak Ji - if not, why did Guru Arjan Ji incorporate them into the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

By accepting the Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru, one is also accepting Kabir Ji as Guru. Kabir Ji stated that his Guru was Ramananda - and the ultimate Guru is God.

Kabir Ji was also accepted by Hindus and Muslims, as well as Sikhs.

Farid Ji is also revered by Sikhs and Muslims.

Guru Ram Das Ji's 4 lama is nothing to do with a marriage between man and woman.

It is about the marriage between a human and God.

Later because Sikhs wanted to have something seperate for their own weddings - they used the Anand Karaj.

[Guest shastr]

i was just listing to some dharam yudh, and baba jarnail singh says that the entire world is born from sikhs. "if you keep the roop that akal purkh gives you, there will bo no shalli raam, or gulli raaam, everybody will call you sardar ji" "sikhaan vichon saari duniya jammdi aa" "kudrat only gave birth to sikhs"

[Bundha]

no it is not Kabir who is Guru it is the shabad that is Guru.

No one is saying that those who came before Guru Sahib Ji did not know the true path. they did and had union with akaal, but you cannot then summise that guru Ji did not start a new panth. Guru Ji did as the other faiths at that timehad wonderedadn waivered off into opposing directions. So Guru Ji was sent by Akaal to start a new faith. Lava is union between God and man but it was used at the times of the Gurus as part of the anand Karaj ceremony as proscribed by the Gurus, this did not start later.

[apne]

Do not agree.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji consists of shabads written by those who lived prior to Guru Nanak Ji.

Kabir Ji, Farid Ji etc - So Sikhi concepts were around prior to the time of Guru Nanak Ji - if not, why did Guru Arjan Ji incorporate them into the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

By accepting the Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru, one is also accepting Kabir Ji as Guru. Kabir Ji stated that his Guru was Ramananda - and the ultimate Guru is God.

Kabir Ji was also accepted by Hindus and Muslims, as well as Sikhs.

Farid Ji is also revered by Sikhs and Muslims.

Guru Ram Das Ji's 4 lama is nothing to do with a marriage between man and woman.

It is about the marriage between a human and God.

Later because Sikhs wanted to have something seperate for their own weddings - they used the Anand Karaj.

Banee Bhagat Kabeer ji ki , this is how it appears in Guru Granth Sahib. Bhagatji was not Guru, he was a devotee enlightned by naam. Don't misinterpret the meaning of Bhagat. Banee by Bhagatji is known as 'Bhagat banee' not 'Gur banee'.

Guru Amardass wrote in goindwal pothi that there are four types of holy men in world. Bhagat, Sadhu, Sant and Sikh. A Sikh is above the rest of three. G.S Maan 'Making of Sikh Scripture'.

Where did Bhagat Kabeerji state that Ramanand was his Guru? No where, the only Guru he refers to in his bani is Satguru (God).

Stop lying you hindu.

[Singhstah]

TheVampire you still have not explained what it is you feel Guroo Sahib never seperated us from. Please clear this up

Anyway Dhan Dhan Dhan Bhagat Kabeer Sahib Ji met Dhan Dhan Dhan Sri Guroo Nanak Dev Sahib Ji Maharaj and became his Sikh.

[davinder.singh]

SSA Ji,

Interesting to read reply from you and getting really some useful information to increase my Sikhi knowledge.

Here now I again take your valuable time to explain my thinking which may be wrong and that i want to correct. Before moving further I will make humble request to you to please keep your hard religious feeling little bit apart as it usually stops us to learn new thoughts.I try to explain my thinking with one simple analogy.We can compare Hindu, Sikh, Singh and Khalsa with today education system as 10th, 12th, Graduation and Post-Graduation. Now you can easily think that if you go to some Graduate person and say him 10th pass, he got irritated and say "No I am not 10th but I am Graduate". But in real sense by saying this he only show that his graduation is not complete and he is still 10th pass. I think he has to say "Yes I am 10th and Graduate also." This way he can show his education. But the problem with most of us is that by birth we are Graduate i.e. Singh and never done 1oth or 12th. So we are Singh but without Sikh and Hindu. Our education is easily visible by following statements. Singhavelli says in post number 37 "NEXT TIME SOME ONE TELLS YOU SIKHS ARE HINDUS, TELL THEM THEY'RE WRONG AND THAT IN FACT HINDUS ARE SIKHS." How come one 12th pass can call 10th pass as 12th pass. I think one 10th pass can only call another 10th pass as 12th pass. In your words no Sikh can call a Sikh to Hindu but one hindu can call another Hindu a Sikh. Singhavelli please don't take it hard, I am saying you this thinking you as my brother. Now come to statement of Bundha in post number 39 he says "if the hindus (and some of our own idiots) ... So come on Hindus - Sajaa a Dastaar, put on the five Kakkars take the paul and become Guru thay piyario. " I think Bundha ji should know that what value our degree Singh and Khalsa has and further how much our Guru ji had paid even to get this degree for himself. In first sentence you say some of us as idiots and in your last sentence you create these idiots. I don't know what you think for yourself. Bundha Ji please you also do not take these word hard as brother we have moral rights to say true to each other. I am ready to listen anything from you and be sure i will take that as my elder brother wording.

Sorry due to time constraint I again have to go but will continue in future but very simple note about analogy that was quite simple one but you can extend that with field of graduation, post-graduation etc.

Best Regards,

Davinder

[waaheguroo]

I did my research on Hinduism:

1) 330 million Gods and Godesses.

2) 3 king Gods called Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.

3) Several animal Gods including an monkey and a snake God (the rat is also worshipped).

4) 4 castes with Brahmins the highest. Brahmins are considered the head of God.

5) 9 more extra Gods from Vishnu.

[davinder.singh]

SSA Ji,

Just a small note, I was going through this thread and in post number 32 Anonymous_kaur is using Guru Gobind Singh Ji's photo as avatar for her. I request her to please go through definition of avatar at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(computing) and check that is everything ok for her or not. May be I am wrong in interpreting the definition of avatar otherwise it is just request from me and I am sure that she has more respect for Guru ji than me..

Best Regards,

Davinder