Swimming

[kookar88]

I am super skinny. If I go swimming, someone might feel jealous because they are over-weight. This will mean they are attached to their physical appearance, which is Moh. Another person who is muscular will laugh at me, because he will feel Hankaar at his physique. Some blind bibi may feel Kaam only because she can't see me. Some other Sikh will feel Krodh if he sees me swimming with an open beard. Another person who doesn't have a Khalsa life jacket will feel Lobh because he doesn't have one and so can't jump in.

My God! Will I go to hell just because they got hit by all the 5 vikaars because of me? :sad: :cry:

LOLLL :D

why does everyone want to force their extremist views on the rest of us?

MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.

if swimming in baggy shorts and a shirt is "enticing", that's NOT MY FAULT. it's the fault of the a$hole who is staring.

:LOLz: :LOLz: :LOLz: :LOLz: :LOLz:

and trust me, he's more likely staring at my keski than anything else.

:g:

LOL ...

[jasleen k]

bhenji, what u find to be moderate is obviously appearing to be extremely liberal to others, so try not make your viewpoint/perspective the one you use to determine what is moderate, liberal, and extremist

and when you made that comment about the gupt user, u very bluntly stated that anyone who cared about sikhi wouldn't make a post like that as gupt.

no, what i said was:

is this post a joke meant to cause an argument? i'm guessing that because you used a "guest" login that it is.

i don't know what translation software you and tarun singh are using, but you guys might need to upgrade. <- that's a JOKE, it's not an insult to your SIKHI. i hope that was clear.

been nice chatting with you!

[Laadli Fauj]

as for the remarks to the poster, come on. who comes in here and posts extremist views under "guest" profiles? people who actually care about sikhi? i doubt it.

thats what i was referring to

w.e

[jasleen k]

bhenji, what u find to be moderate is obviously appearing to be extremely liberal to others, so try not make your viewpoint/perspective the one you use to determine what is moderate, liberal, and extremist

i see. but it's ok for YOU to determine who is moderate, liberal, and extremist? just curious, how old are you and how much of the world have you seen?

listen, i have liberal amritdhari friends who think it's perfectly ok to eat meat. i have liberal amritdhari friends who think women don't need to wear any head cover at all because SRM says women "may or may not tie turban". i have liberal amritdhari friends who take their kirpan off when they sleep. i don't agree with any of these ideas. they think i'm an extremist because i don't eat meat and sleep in panj kakkars and a keski. they think the fact that i swim with panj kakkars and a keski makes me a fanatic. don't you think it's kind of ironic that some people think i'm an infidel harlot "enticing" everyone around me and others think i'm being extremist... it's all about perspective.

i would say that because i'm not as extremist as our gupt friend, but i'm also not as liberal as sikhs i know in person, that would mean that i'm somewhere in the middle. wouldn't you think so?

it's funny, in political terms, i don't mind being called liberal. but when it comes to sikhi, it's kind of insulting to call someone "liberal" about their religion, don't you think? doesn't it imply that they don't care as much, they don't try as hard, they aren't as good? because that's how it comes across. as a personal insult to my sikhi.

oh wait, you think i'm the one who is insulting other people's sikh, even as you insult me.

there's that irony again...

as for the remarks to the poster, come on. who comes in here and posts extremist views under "guest" profiles? people who actually care about sikhi? i doubt it.

thats what i was referring to

w.e

my apologies, was confused. that was my response to being told i was insulting the poster. then you agreed with tarun so i assumed you were talking about the same post.

it's kind of confusing when we don't use the handy-dandy quote feature...

so ya, i guess i think it's unnecessary for sikhs to hide, but i'm just a stupid liberal, so like you said, whatever.

[TarunSingh]

um no, no one called you stupid, now if you have a complex yourself, no one can do anything about that, and from your whole post about how much of the world ppl have seen, how long have you been an amritdhari? cuz that's your real age.... anyway no point in getting into my 12 yrs are better than your 11 yrs debate, but the point is, for someone who acts like they are more educated about the diversity of views in sikhi (not all of which follow gurmat) you surely jumped the gun in calling someone an extremist, and its just me but hearing ninda (or some thinly veiled sarcasm intended to insult the person) of a fellow gursikh for what is apparently no reason, is upsetting - im not claiming to be perfect, im not claiming to be better than you, but that's how i see the situation, as for the topic you still didnt address the point of the water being jootha - but i guess ad hominems are more your style - which is a game id be more than happy to play.

[Guest Guest]

It seems to me that this "westernisation" of our bibian is one of the root causes of all the problems sikhi is facing these days.

Strong mothers breed strong jeevan wale singhs and kaurs...

rather (generally) you have singhs who are easily identifiable and then the sisters who are too keen to just blend in....

Just a random thought - its not chauvanism, its not inciting - if it seems like ive hit a nerve please forgive me but i just write honestly from my heart....

[jasleen k]

as for the topic you still didnt address the point of the water being jootha

jootha. i had not addressed it because it's already been addressed. but i'll try again.

ok, let's pull out the handy punjabi/english dictionary, just to make sure i'm understanding you.

"ਜੂਠਾ"

What is left after eating something, something defiled by others.

so oceans and lakes are obviously not left after eating. are they defiled? i suppose they're probably polluted, that's true. i'd assume that any "defilement" from people would be so diluted by a large body of water, or destroyed by chlorine, that there wouldn't be much, if any, jootha left, would there? of course, the air you breathe is also polluted, breathed by others. is air jootha? what about organic food. it is fertilized using the scraps from vegetables, dung from animals, now that's certainly jootha, right? so do you eat organic food? don't sikhs in india traditionally leave the ashes of the dead in a body of water? do they wade into that water to deposit the ashes? is that water also jootha? i mean, come on, how far do you want to go with this phobia?

let's make it simple. if you are near a lake, and someone is drowning, as a sikh, would you:

A) jump in and save their life

or

B) walk on by and let them die because you're afraid someone might have drooled a bit in the lake at some point in time

if we have a difference of opinion, that's ok, there's nothing wrong with it.

[jasleen k]

ਬਸੰਤੁ ਹਿੰਡੋਲੁ ਘਰੁ ੨

Basant Hindol, Second House:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਮਾਤਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਭੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਫਲ ਲਾਗੇ ॥

The mother is impure, and the father is impure. The fruit they produce is impure.

ਆਵਹਿ ਜੂਠੇ ਜਾਹਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੇ ਜੂਠੇ ਮਰਹਿ ਅਭਾਗੇ ॥੧॥

Impure they come, and impure they go. The unfortunate ones die in impurity. ||1||

ਕਹੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸੂਚਾ ਕਵਨੁ ਠਾਉ ॥

Tell me, O Pandit, O religious scholar, which place is uncontaminated?

ਜਹਾਂ ਬੈਸਿ ਹਉ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਖਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Where should I sit to eat my meal? ||1||Pause||

ਜਿਹਬਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੋਲਤ ਜੂਠਾ ਕਰਨ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਸਭਿ ਜੂਠੇ ॥

The tongue is impure, and its speech is impure. The eyes and ears are totally impure.

ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਕੀ ਜੂਠਿ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਅਗਨਿ ਕੇ ਲੂਠੇ ॥੨॥

The impurity of the sexual organs does not depart; the Brahmin is burnt by the fire. ||2||

ਅਗਨਿ ਭੀ ਜੂਠੀ ਪਾਨੀ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਬੈਸਿ ਪਕਾਇਆ ॥

The fire is impure, and the water is impure. The place where you sit and cook is impure.

ਜੂਠੀ ਕਰਛੀ ਪਰੋਸਨ ਲਾਗਾ ਜੂਠੇ ਹੀ ਬੈਠਿ ਖਾਇਆ ॥੩॥

Impure is the ladle which serves the food. Impure is the one who sits down to eat it. ||3||

ਗੋਬਰੁ ਜੂਠਾ ਚਉਕਾ ਜੂਠਾ ਜੂਠੀ ਦੀਨੀ ਕਾਰਾ ॥

Impure is the cow dung, and impure is the kitchen square. Impure are the lines that mark it off.

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਤੇਈ ਨਰ ਸੂਚੇ ਸਾਚੀ ਪਰੀ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੧॥੭॥

Says Kabeer, they alone are pure, who have obtained pure understanding. ||4||1||7||

according to Guru ji, it looks like EVERYTHING is jootha where to now?

[TarunSingh]

everythings jootha so might as well eat from non-amritdharis right? you mentioned a lot of situations that are unavoidable - i.e. breathing, drinking water etc. (this is similar to entering a train that is filled w/ smoke from tobacco and having to breathe as bhai sahib randheer singh ji wrote about) but there's a difference between doing things out of necessity like savings someone life, breathing, etc. vs. doing something for pleasure - there are plenty of ways to exercise without swimming.

as for definitions

ਜੂਠ

جوٹھ

noun, feminine pollution, contamination; food polluted by taste or touch, leftovers, leavings, orts, crumbs, kitchen refuse; slang. low, mean person

as you can see the first two definitions have nothing to do with food

[CaptainC]

yhh watevaa people what a stupid arguement

yh swimmings good and ide encourage everyone to go

you aint gotta go half naked to be allowed to swim :S

if it was possible to catch so many of these so called contagious diseases ... swimming would be banned...well atleast for the little kids...theres too much chlorine in that water man

in my opinion knowing how to swim is a MUST for everyone regardless of if hey are amridhari or not. A Rehat Maryada doesnt need to state the obvious....like the last time i checked most people were given brains?

With the state of this current world...water levels rising...its bound to come more useful to you in a real life situation than ever before