Anyone With Knowledge - Please Help

[chatanga]

good article Bijla Singh. We should be using stuff like that more.

[Wicked Warrior]

I remember a sakhi about imperfections. I don't recall the details, just the premise of the Sakhi.

Something about someone carry waterpots to and from the river to use elsewhere. One of the pots was perfect and held water without problems. The other pot had a small crack in it and would leak water. By the time they'd reached their destination, the cracked pot would hold about half the water it originally had. One day the bearer noticed the pot with a crack was unhappy and asked it why. The pot said I am a bad pot, I leak water everywhere and I cannot hold on to it properly. The bearer said to the pot, look along the path I have carried you every day. There were you have leaked water, you have watered the ground and now it is full of flowers for all to enjoy.

She might not like it because it's about a guy talking to a pot!

[naaz]

Disclaimer: I am not a scholar on Gurbani, and not a spiritually enlightened Gurmukh either. I am going to TRY to answer based ONLY on grammar, because I am not an intellectual on Gurmat either.

"you got me thinking... firstly about god creating us perfect, well you kinda contadicted yourself, you said we are created perfect but when reincarnated we may not be. we either are or aren't????

If someone believes in Akal Purakh, believes that Akal Purakh is All Perfect, they should also believe that whatever Akal Purakh creates has got to be perfect. Each one of us is perfect in the way we have been made, because we are made by the One who is All Perfect. In the next life, even if some soul was born in the jooni of an insect, then that jooni is perfect for them based on their karams. Thus we are always made perfect based on our karams and His kirpa. There is one jot in all beings, and the problem here is that Bibi Razia is viewing Akal Purakh's creation on an outward superficial surface based on their external appearance, thereby considering that humans are better than insects just because they are humans. The truth is that humans are better indeed, but only because we have the Akal Purakh-given capabiity to realize Vaheguru in this jooni. The other reason is that Bibi Razia being a Muslim doesn't believe in re-birth, and so the details that Gurbani goes into about the soul are not going to make any sense to her. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj has blessed us with detailed accounts of what the soul goes through, and what jooniya we can have to go through.

Bhagat Trilochan Ji in Raag Gujri on Ang 526

gUjrI ]

goojaree ||

Goojaree:

AMiq kwil jo lCmI ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]

a(n)th kaal jo lashhamee simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai ||

At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts,

srp join vil vil AauqrY ]1]

sarap jon val val aoutharai ||1||

shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. ||1||

ArI bweI goibd nwmu miq bIsrY ] rhwau ]

aree baaee gobidh naam math beesarai || rehaao ||

O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause||

AMiq kwil jo iesqRI ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]

a(n)th kaal jo eisathree simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai ||

At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts,

bysvw join vil vil AauqrY ]2]

baesavaa jon val val aoutharai ||2||

shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. ||2||

AMiq kwil jo liVky ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]

a(n)th kaal jo larrikae simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai ||

At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts,

sUkr join vil vil AauqrY ]3]

sookar jon val val aoutharai ||3||

shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. ||3||

AMiq kwil jo mMdr ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]

a(n)th kaal jo ma(n)dhar simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai ||

At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts,

pRyq join vil vil AauqrY ]4]

praeth jon val val aoutharai ||4||

shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. ||4||

AMiq kwil nwrwiexu ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]

a(n)th kaal naaraaein simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai ||

At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts,

bdiq iqlocnu qy nr mukqw pIqMbru vw ky irdY bsY ]5]2]

badhath thilochan thae nar mukathaa peetha(n)bar vaa kae ridhai basai ||5||2||

says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2||

Guru Amar Daas Ji in Siree Raag on Ang 88

slok mÚ 3 ]

salok ma 3 ||

Salok, Third Mehla:

siqguru ijnI n syivE sbid n kIqo vIcwru ]

sathigur jinee n saeviou sabadh n keetho veechaar ||

Those who do not serve the True Guru, and who do not contemplate the Word of the Shabad

AMqir igAwnu n AwieE imrqku hY sMswir ]

a(n)thar giaan n aaeiou mirathak hai sa(n)saar ||

-spiritual wisdom does not enter into their hearts; they are like dead bodies in the world.

lK caurwsIh Pyru pieAw mir jMmY hoie KuAwru ]

lakh chouraaseeh faer paeiaa mar ja(n)mai hoe khuaar ||

They go through the cycle of 8.4 million reincarnations, and they are ruined through death and rebirth.

siqgur kI syvw so kry ijs no Awip krwey soie ]

sathigur kee saevaa so karae jis no aap karaaeae soe ||

He alone serves the True Guru, whom the Lord Himself inspires to do so.

siqgur ivic nwmu inDwnu hY krim prwpiq hoie ]

sathigur vich naam nidhhaan hai karam paraapath hoe ||

The Treasure of the Naam is within the True Guru; by His Grace, it is obtained.

sic rqy gur sbd isau iqn scI sdw ilv hoie ]

sach rathae gur sabadh sio thin sachee sadhaa liv hoe ||

Those who are truly attuned to the Word of the Guru's Shabad-their love is forever True.

nwnk ijs no myly n ivCuVY shij smwvY soie ]1]

naanak jis no maelae n vishhurrai sehaj samaavai soe ||1||

O Nanak, those who are united with Him shall not be separated again. They merge imperceptibly into God. ||1||

Secondly the statement "men and women are equal" i completely disagree... stating the obvious most men have knobs (with or without forskin lol) and women (excluding transexuals) obviously don't, equal?? no. Women give birth men on the other hand don't, equal no??? etc etc we are not equal biologically so that statement is a major FLAW im afraid to say.

Once again, she is viewing things from an outward sperficial surface. Just because I don't look 100% exactly like my father or brother doesn't mean I am not related to them by blood. Moreover, if men and women were exactly the same, we would need another method of procreation. We can't help the biological differences between men and women, but what Sikhi teaches is to remove the social and religious differences.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Aasaa on Ang 473

mÚ 1 ]

ma 1 ||

First Mehla:

BMif jMmIAY BMif inMmIAY BMif mMgxu vIAwhu ]

bha(n)dd ja(n)meeai bha(n)dd ni(n)meeai bha(n)dd ma(n)gan veeaahu ||

From woman, man is born; within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married.

BMfhu hovY dosqI BMfhu clY rwhu ]

bha(n)ddahu hovai dhosathee bha(n)ddahu chalai raahu ||

Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come.

BMfu muAw BMfu BwlIAY BMif hovY bMDwnu ]

bha(n)dd muaa bha(n)dd bhaaleeai bha(n)dd hovai ba(n)dhhaan ||

When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound.

so ikau mMdw AwKIAY ijqu jMmih rwjwn ]

so kio ma(n)dhaa aakheeai jith ja(n)mehi raajaan ||

So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.

BMfhu hI BMfu aUpjY BMfY bwJu n koie ]

bha(n)ddahu hee bha(n)dd oopajai bha(n)ddai baajh n koe ||

From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all.

nwnk BMfY bwhrw eyko scw soie ]

naanak bha(n)ddai baaharaa eaeko sachaa soe ||

O Nanak, only the True Lord is without a woman.

ijqu muiK sdw swlwhIAY Bwgw rqI cwir ]

jith mukh sadhaa saalaaheeai bhaagaa rathee chaar ||

That mouth which praises the Lord continually is blessed and beautiful.

nwnk qy muK aUjly iqqu scY drbwir ]2]

naanak thae mukh oojalae thith sachai dharabaar ||2||

O Nanak, those faces shall be radiant in the Court of the True Lord. ||2||

of course we should be equal in our faith to god, convenant of his duties and duties to mankind but thats where it ends. if we are equal then why are there 10 male gurus?? or is there one woman aswell? but hey still no equality.

http://www.sikhsanga...p...st&p=370571

Our Gurus came at a time when women and so-called lower castes were oppressed. One might wonder why were the Gurus born into so-called high caste Kshatriya families. Gurbani speaks strongly against castes and stresses the equality of genders. Imagine if our Gurus were born into so-called lower castes, or if any of the Gurus were women. Would this message have such a strong impact? Would anyone bother listening to a "lower caste" preaching against caste? Would anyone bother to care about a woman preaching gender equality? But no! Here we had MEN of "HIGHER" castes spreading the message of gender equality and condemning the caste system. This was a shock for the rotten society of those times and was a massive revolution in itself, and thus it took India by storm and hit the minds of everyone like a thunderbolt. People were like "THESE MEN ARE SPREADING THE NOTION THAT GENDERS ARE EQUAL"..."THESE HIGH CASTE KSHATRIYAS ARE SPREADING THE MESSAGE OF THE USELESSNESS OF THE CASTE SYSTEM". This had a profound effect on the psyche of all classes (castes) of Indians. The so-called lower castes who had been suppressed saw hope, and the fanatical higher castes also woke up to reality. Those woman oppressing men got a jolt when they saw these MEN speak out against the idea of considering women as inferior or impure. High castes spoke against castes. Men spoke in favor of respecting women. This was something totally new and unheard of. The message of gender equality and equality of all mankind might not have had such a profound impact if our Gurus were women or from so-called lower castes.

Read more replies on http://www.sikhsanga...o...654&hl=guru

[naaz]

Metaab Singh, U are Right - muslims don't believe in Re-incarnation. I'm a muslim & I know that but I believe in Re-incarnation

cause thats the only way life makes sense 2 me. Why would a true loving person who always does good keeps getting dogged ???

I came to the conclusion that it was something from their past life they did . Muslim religion is very religious - not as spiritual

as yours - thats what I like about yours. I'm not religious but more spiritual. Our religion also dosen't teach simran & kirtan

which is essential & I LOVE kirtan & simran & which these 2 I do the most.

[chatanga]

when sikhi talks of equality in the genders, it is not talking about the physical or natural qualities of men/women, but the spiritual equality. the spirit or atma that is in men and woman is equal. obviously (and im slightly scared of the response) men are physically stronger whereas women have more of a nurturing and compassionate nature. But the atma of both sexes( and third-genders for that matter) are equal before Waheguru. the atma of man is not plaseing to Waheguru over womens.So when people say what equalitry is there between men and women try and asnwer them with the spiritual angle rather than the physical.

[SunSingh]

It is the original true nature (God + Soul) that is perfect, not maya, of which the body is a part. It is hankaar that prevents us from seeing this true nature, which is why we have to get reincarnated.