A Question To Fellow My Brothers And Sisters?

[Guest confusingh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Sikh veero atte bheno, recently I have come back from completing a masters away from home and have come back to see my local Gurdwara Sahib taken over by extremist Singhs who have little knowledge of Sikhi in its pure form and are causing harm to the local society. I have always been a devout Singh and have offered my seva at the Gurdwara Sahib since a very young age, the community set up GCSE help sessions etc. and had a lot of educational classes going on, we as a community were flourishing. As of lately, a group who claim to follow 'Taksali Maryada' (don't really understand what they mean by this i have always had a belief that the Rehat Maryada was universal) they don't allow people with walking sticks or wheelchairs and mostly siaaney who have always served the Gurdwara very well. I found this disgraceful, they claimed that the Gurdwara hall cannot have objects such as wheelchairs or walking sticks in the hall even with bags on, so therefore alot of people are unable to take darshan of Guru Sahib.

Shabads and Paaths have been replaced with constant Naam Japna, the new Dhumalleh Wala Bhai Sahib said that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji doesn't need to be read an interpreted as well as understood as a form of Gian and Pure Knowledge to live your life by, but concludes that spiritual rituals like putting dudh diyan bottlan full of pani in the room where Bani is being read and a person obtains knowledge through the water- THIS IS NOT SIKHI!!! All these Sakhiyan made from thin air are alienating the youngsters and as a loyal and devout Guru Ka Singh, I hope I have enough courage to be able to change this, however our Gurdwara Sahib is no longer a congregation of Gursikhs but a total camp of hatred and hindu-style aarti place, nothing resembles Sikhi to me in here...

What am i to do ?

Any Advice Would be greatly appreciated

Je Galti Hoi fir Bhul Chuk Maaf Karo... No offence is intended!

Thanks!

[Eaek Gun Nahee 2]

errm

wah they doing rong jii

oh btw wah gurukar is it

[Akal Purkh Ki Fauj 0]

Where is this gurdwara sahib, bhai sahib?

[Guest confusingh]

I prefer not to state the exact Guru Ghar... but its in the north of england...

These bandhay basically have disallowed all educational classes, have started making young children memorise bani instead of teaching them about bani and allowing them to gain their own judgement and gian from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

Kirtan is no longer a beautiful interpretation of Guru Sahib's words but rather a 'grab ur chimta and start going mental' and doing naam japna 24/7 sorry but you cannot replace Paath and Bani the true word of our Guru Ji's for Naam Japna all the time... SIKHI meaning LEARN these people are disallowing people their right to learn

advice ?

[Akritghan 2]

whats wrng with teaching children baanee and making them memorise it?

puratan singhs and singhiya used to have nitnem-panj granthi-das granthi memorised...what do we have memorised jee?

[HSD*^ 19]

get a job, make some money and build your own gurudwara. case solved.

[Guest shastr]

um.....naam japna is the biggest thing in sikhi, which enables everything else. and yes, we are suppose to jap naam 24/7 as maharaj tells us countless times.

"jo saas giraas thiyaye mera har har, so gursikh guru mann bhavai"

"aath pehar nanak gur jaap"

"simar simar simar gun taas"

"saas saas simro gobind, mann antar ki otherai chind"

"aath pehar tere gun gaaiya"

"aath pehar ram naam vaparo"

"aath pehar tudh jaape pavna"

theres are tons of other tuks that tell us to jaap naam 24 hours a day.

i would rather do 100 jap ji sahibs everyday and not know wat it means, rather knowing wat it means but only doing 1. because naam and bani works like a computer, automatically works inside our body and fixes things, but only if u have enought of it. so i think these guys are on the right track, they will eventually get into the meaning of wat the bani says and the rest of the stuff. cuz that all will happen on its own, we keep reading the bani then our minds starts to listen to wat were saying, and hence it looks for meaning, it looks for the gian. gian is the food for our mind. thats wat it runs on, knowledge.

but today u see people always talking about gian and no bhagati. everybody talks about gian, nobody ever wants to put in the hard work to obtain that gian. so hence you have people who creat a fake image about themselves, always talking about bani, and never actually reading it.

but here u have people acutally reading the bani, actually putting in those long hours of simran, long hours of abhiyaas, which will lead them to everything else in life.

we will get everything in life through simran,

"prabh ke simran, gian tian tat budh"

but nothing comes from only talking about gian and never actually putting forth the effort.

and wat u said about having water in the room where u do paath and how thats not sikhi, well im sorry to tell u bro, but that is puratan rehat, not something that just started today.

if u read gurbani paath darpan by sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale, it tells us how to do paath is full rehat maryada, and how maharaj guru gobind singh ji did akand paaths, and wat samagari was used. and one of the things was one or two gagars of jal. (water). the naam gets absorbed into the jal, y do u think amrit is made from water and not from coke or pepsi??

and memorizeing bani is one of the 52 hukams of guru gobind singh ji maharaj, given to khalsa panth, so obviously thats wat we r supposed to do, memorize it.

rehatnama bhai daasa singh, "dhouoo granth me bani joee, chun chun kantth kare nit soee"

so again, these guys r on the right path, of couse there might be some things that need to be worked out, like u said the thing about actually understanding the bani u read and teaching the meanings to children and the stuff about wheelchairs and wat not, but when we worry about maharaj's naam 24/7, maharaj worries about us too, and hence will fix our mistakes

sorry if i sounded like im lecturing you singho, but im just trying to get a point across

[Guest confusingh]

veer ji no offence intended here,

but isn't that simply missing the point in being a SIKH...

Jo Prabh Ko Milbo Chahe, Khoj Shabad Meh Leh|

something which many great singh and singhinyan have agreed that this is best translated to

Those who seek union with God should search through the divine wisdom of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

Well if we discontinued Shabad, Bani, Kirtan, and we used Naam Japna as the 'most important' thing to sikhi, (seems an easy undisciplined way of being a singh, Guru Ji's singhs were never informed to neglect learning bani and just chant, that is a brahmin form of prayer used in islam and hinduism, but not in Sikhi) this would be a direct conflict with our religion, the fact is although im not aware of a particular stance within this forum, but would it not be more appropriate to know what my Great Guru ji gave me and thrive to learn more about the great enlightenment we can get from Bani rather than as you said ' i would rather do 100 jap ji sahibs everyday and not know wat it means, rather knowing wat it means but only doing 1' however being a SIKH, and the amount of times GIAN is used in the sense of knowledge of a GurSikh lifestyle within our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so if we do not know what we are saying in our paath or Bani then how can we effectively be sikhs and implement these CORE monotheistic values within a GurSikh lifestyle,,,?

Dont mean to cause any offence here so again bhul chuk maaf karna je galti ho gaiyee

[Guest confusingh]

Also without paath and Bani we aren't following Guru Ji's hukam of Guru Manio Granth, we should look to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for guidance through ALL our troubles, and by understanding bani one can learn how to handle hardships and positive aspects of life, it is a way of life which could be a universal maxim, therefore without the knowledge of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and simple memory of paath in an illogical manner, are we limiting our opportunities to gain Gian and therefore further the message of Bani and following Guru Ji's hukam?

[singh70 3]

confiusingh

You will not get much sympathy on this forum as this is full of extremists who share the views of those who have taken over your gurdwara.

Gurdwara are more and more resembling Muslim Madrassas.

It's the Talibanisation of Sikhi.

[Koi 535]

confiusingh

...

Gurdwara are more and more resembling Muslim Madrassas.

It's the Talibanisation of Sikhi.

Yup.

[saint-soldier 3]

am i the only one that thinks the gurudwara sahib has been taken over by idiots and not extremists???? or am i just confused.

and whats up with people calling everyone extremist???

[1kAuR1 14]

As interesting as this thread is its useless!

Extremists? Taksaal Maryada? Naam Japna? None of your points are fully developed into an argument that is feasible.

Bottom line is walk into the Gurdwara go to the office speak to the receptionist and book an appointment to air your "confusion" with the "extremists".

Its not as if anyone on this forum can do that for you. (no offence to anyone)

I agree with shastr- naam japna is the biggest thing in Sikhi.

Also Akritghan is right- what is wrong with teaching Kids Bani?

Bhul Chuk Maaf!!

[khalistan_zindabaad 234]

more like, your someone who just came on the forum to cause issues, let us know which gurdvara it is and they saadh sangat can adress them properly. I doubt that its a Puratan Maryada following gurdvara as there only a few left in england and i can probably name them from the top of my head.

Regarding wheelchairs etc, to an extent your right, walking sticks - can be washed at the bottom and cleaned and taken in - that bit i think your lying about

Regarding the water thing - its maryada, but no where does it state that you dont need to do abhiyaas from guru granth sahib jee.

I doubt that your speaking the truth about half the things that you say.

P.S this isnt leeds your talking about.

[Guest confusingh]

Waherguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

No im sorry you've totally put forward an uncontextual point,

my point isn't useless at all a person voices concerns on a Sikh forum, you're faced with something you're not comfortable with and you claim its useless... I have voiced out my concerns, however if I go in to specific cases I will be giving up the name of the Guru Ghar (WHICH REGARDLESS OF OTHERS SAYING I DONT WANT TO DO, ITS DISRESPECTFUL TO THE COMMUNITY) these people don't want intelligent debates and when one has took place, it's not actually been too enlightening...

Those who have extensively studied Sikh theology may agree that Sikhi is in no way supersticious, and is about a constant thrive for Gian... just because i'm a new poster doesn't by any means you should dismiss my post because it may not seem 'orthodox' to you... but sorry what these people are practicing is not Sikhi... when I sit down and say to them ok well where in Guru Maharaj's words does it say to you that one doesn't need to interpret Baani... if you chant words with total disregard for the meaning and context of these intricately strung together words which our previous Guru ji's (they were amazingly intelligent!) have put together in order to educate Sikhs and actually carry out their Dharam of being on a journey of enlightenment and truth... surely this will make you a better Sikh...

Even Japji Sahib ji and several other paaths guide us this way...

'mat vich ratan javaahar maanik jay ik gur kee sikh sunee.' Within the mind are gems, jewels and rubies, when the Sikh listens to the One Guru...

I personally all my life have chose to read bani myself and learn from paath and Guru Maharaj's guidance as well as the odd debate with Giani's.. This helps me learn about Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, however if one chooses to dismiss any intelligent thinking... say NOBODY should really bother learning in so many words... WELL WHY WOULD GURU JI give us Bani if it was not for us to learn and gain guidance for...

Now I feel Sikhi has been diluted in different Guru Ghar I have visited there always tends to be a divide, the brothers and sisters who see themselves as having authority in our local gurdwara claim they follow teachings of Sant so and so... and sant so and so... list is endless they won't ever actually refer to the GREATEST knowledge of the world which is Bani... I went on a trip to India in order to help people out there via eye camps, educational classes, teaching at small guru ghars in isolated pinds, did my TEFL in order to help youngsters out there too... when I spoke of people participating and helping fellow singhs and non-singhs... it was surprisingly said I'm a Manmukh... because a 'true sikh' should be doing constant naam japna... however again in Japji Sahib Ji

sochai soch naa hov-a-ee jay sochee lakh vaar

By thinking and thinking again a hundred thousand times, one cannot find a solution

chupai chup naa hov-a-ee jay laa-i rahaa liv taar

By being quiet, peace cannot be found even if poised deep in meditation forever

Does this not clearly guide Sikhs towards action and action which is Sachaiee and pure...

As other posters have said, maybe I have come to the wrong place to discuss this... and maybe i'm going to get a response from an extremist who has no desire to learn about Bani... I don't know but I still do see all Sikhs as my fellow brothers... I hope you can help me shed some light on this situation...

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karna