A Question To Fellow My Brothers And Sisters?

[Guest confusingh]

am i the only one that thinks the gurudwara sahib has been taken over by idiots and not extremists???? or am i just confused.

and whats up with people calling everyone extremist???

Extremists is a typical Sanatan response as well as pseudo sikh or talibanised sikh + many others. They like to make every sikh that would reject their "hindu sikh sanatan" view point to be an extemist who is a bi-product of the british raj in india

Veer ji, sorry but thats completely wrong,

Hinduism relies alot upon a mythical belief system with alot of superstition and not much put in to the part of knowledge of texts or scriptures and no implementation system of that knowledge...

THAT IS WHY IM SAYING WHY DO WE FOLLOW RITUALS AND PRACTICES WHICH HAVE NO PLACE IN SIKHI

Sikhi bases its values on having knowledge, faith, courage and remaining truthful (sachaiee), these are obtained for Sikhs to SOLELY follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's message to the world, when we stray from our religion and allow these useless rituals and disobedience of gurmukhi, which Sri Guru Angad Dev ji standardised in the 16th century in order for us to have this means of communication and to understand scriptures etc. if this had not have happened then I would have no problem following this ritualistic approach many people try and pass off as Sikhi, but there is not any place in a Guru Ghar for superstitious belief systems and rituals, these are what extremist sikhs want to implement in to the religion as it gives them an easy ride, many of them cannot or choose not to read Bani or any other form of Sikhi, therefore all they have to ever do is Naam Japna, but if a person is not obtaining any knowledge of Bani or Guru Sahib's words then like I said, their mind is a gun firing blanks!

[GuptSinghani]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Yes I agree, and you've just stated my point, so what part does ritualism play within Bani? Why do we have the need for rituals and approaches to Sikhi which just ARE NOT Sikhi, when we're young like 5 or 6 yeah ok we accept what happens at Guru Ghar because we know no better, but now we as Sikh adults, don't we have the right to question these rituals that are taking place in Guru Ghars all over the world, is this really Sikhi? or are we just adopting approaches to seem more like an 'orthodox' belief system, rather than giving Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj our full vishwaas? Extremist views and nonsensical belief is not Sikhi, blind faith is no faith at all, its lacking the ability to interpret, learn and question. There are several stories within Sikhi which fully support this view as well as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so why in this day and age are we still reverting to following practices which have no place in a monotheistic equal righteous humanitarian religion such as Sikhi, which places no value on superstitions!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I am slightly confused which practices are we supposed to be questioning?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[gupt_kaur]

confusingh, you are just confused my friend! i think u honestly have no idea what you are talking about! you write these essays for posts and they make no sense. you can have a go and say i am trying to avoid a debate or discussion, truth is i dont see any point of talking to someone like u! we know u jus come from studying, and so you have learnt all these nice big words and long sentences, but they are all jus covering up the fact that you have no knowledge of Sikhi. If you had any sense you would speak to the people in your Gurdwara who have "taken over" and not only find out why they are doing what they are doing, but ask them to stop it if its so wrong! But instead you decided to come on here, complain about some Singhs who have decided to take some positive steps in their Sikhi and start fight with everyone on the forum! Bani parrla Singha, it will give you more knowledge then readin this forum!

[1kAuR1]

I agree with Gupt_Kaur above. ^^^^^^^

[Guest confusingh]

confusingh, you are just confused my friend! i think u honestly have no idea what you are talking about! you write these essays for posts and they make no sense. you can have a go and say i am trying to avoid a debate or discussion, truth is i dont see any point of talking to someone like u! we know u jus come from studying, and so you have learnt all these nice big words and long sentences, but they are all jus covering up the fact that you have no knowledge of Sikhi. If you had any sense you would speak to the people in your Gurdwara who have "taken over" and not only find out why they are doing what they are doing, but ask them to stop it if its so wrong! But instead you decided to come on here, complain about some Singhs who have decided to take some positive steps in their Sikhi and start fight with everyone on the forum! Bani parrla Singha, it will give you more knowledge then readin this forum!

lol ive been reading bani for a long time and ok im educated, but dont see how one could use that against somebody!?

These Singhs have not taken any positive steps, if you don't mind your children and family members being attemptedly brain washed by a load of lies and useless rituals and being fake inside and supporting that with a brand new Sakhi every week which they can't even source!, go for it, Sikhi is too important personally for me to compromise!

So if its time to do aarti (NO PLACE IN SIKHI FOR THIS EITHER) and other rituals, as well as maintaining sole exclusivity of Guru Ka Pyar (how are they then Sikhs ?) for certain Singhs then go for it, but don't disrespect Maharaj ji by then claiming to be Singhs of the Guru, because other than being preached to by a old bloke some would call a sant who makes more money than many families put together, many pakhandi jathe bandiyan as well as extremists nowadays consist of vacant views of blind faith and no knowledge, logic or reasoning whatsoever, and that is NOT Sikhi.... so if you're still confused after that then I apologise if my 'long' words are too difficult for you to comprehend. Vocabulary is a beautiful thing, attempt to utilise it at some point in your life. My whole point has been to read and understand Bani rather than just say words that hold no value to the individual. It feels as if to me many Singh and Singhinyan nowadays are not following Sikhi out of love of the faith but out of the fact that their parents told them something so they'll follow it consistently without actually attempting to obtain depth out of Maharaj ji's word. If you would like me to clarify any more about how much I've tried to learn about Bani, then go for it, I'm still learning as is every SIKH (what does SIKH mean?) so these posts which try to brush off what i'm saying which to many normal people should seem crystal clear, seem to be lacking evidence of what is needed to make positive steps for Sikhi.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[GuptSinghani]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

This is where I am confused, you keep mentioning aarti- it was actually written by Guru Nanak Dev Ji and is bani. How can you say it is ritualistic?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Harjeet.Singh]

Whats the moral of this story?

[toor]

why dont u just say the name of the gurdwara so other people in the area can also go and see what is going on and if anything wrong is going on help to get it sorted.

[gupt_kaur]

you know i was confused at first what kind of person you were, i thought first you might be someone who has strong views on Sikhi and these "singhs" have come into your gurdwara and started doing "rituals" so you had every right to be upset! Singha ur a bookworm! and you can take what with the full offense it is intended to carry! Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj not only speaks of reciting God's name, there are many sakhi's and lessons to be learnt from Maharaj's Bani. You talk about people who have blind faith in Sikhi and their Guru, my brother, you have NO faith! Aarti aarta happens at Sachkand Sri Hazzor Sahib everyday, great mahapuraks have gone to Sri Hazoor Sahib and have never said once stop these rituals, they have in fact gne there and had darshan on Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj! I agree we should not do rituals and believe all stories we are told, but if people who have had darshan of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj have no objection to singhs doing aarti aarta, then who am i to stop them?

"My whole point has been to read and understand Bani rather than just say words that hold no value to the individual." did u not read the sakhi posted before about the prostitute? if not read it and think again about what you have said. Like i said you have no knowledge of Sikhi, neither do i, which is why Maharaj has given me the answer to all my questions!

[Guest confusingh]

you know i was confused at first what kind of person you were, i thought first you might be someone who has strong views on Sikhi and these "singhs" have come into your gurdwara and started doing "rituals" so you had every right to be upset! Singha ur a bookworm! and you can take what with the full offense it is intended to carry! Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj not only speaks of reciting God's name, there are many sakhi's and lessons to be learnt from Maharaj's Bani. You talk about people who have blind faith in Sikhi and their Guru, my brother, you have NO faith! Aarti aarta happens at Sachkand Sri Hazzor Sahib everyday, great mahapuraks have gone to Sri Hazoor Sahib and have never said once stop these rituals, they have in fact gne there and had darshan on Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj! I agree we should not do rituals and believe all stories we are told, but if people who have had darshan of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj have no objection to singhs doing aarti aarta, then who am i to stop them?

"My whole point has been to read and understand Bani rather than just say words that hold no value to the individual." did u not read the sakhi posted before about the prostitute? if not read it and think again about what you have said. Like i said you have no knowledge of Sikhi, neither do i, which is why Maharaj has given me the answer to all my questions!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

This is where I am confused, you keep mentioning aarti- it was actually written by Guru Nanak Dev Ji and is bani. How can you say it is ritualistic?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I dont have to explain why im not a bookworm... but trust me im not simply books.. lol

this debate is like speaking to a brick wall you talk about me having no faith, you need to educate yourself a little not just in the academic sense, which you seem to have problems with.

But Aarti is derived from Vedic rituals of fire burning... I seriously don't believe that you were never told or taught these things, Aarti is the Vedic form of singing the praise of a deity... (i.e. you stand in front of a focus of worship and you praise that object) however, aarti in Maharaj ji's hazoori can't be justified due to the incremental rejection of idol worship in Sikhi... Somebody quote Bani or correct me LOGICALLY and I'll accept your point, however lets go further back (don't know why, but just for those who claimed im being too technical and they don't understand lol) but... the composition of 'AARti' is conducted to praise an idol of a deity... in terms of composition Aarti is incremental within Idol worship and also a polytheistic belief system... so other than being well spoken, i've backed my argument up and that is what we call a debate...

Also, the fact of it is, in Bani the term mahapursh and sant is used in a term of people who were forwarding the cause, in the time of a social reform, lets actually think of what was happening back in them days not in the loose sense of anybody who does their opinion of Katha is a sant, your arguments aren't contextual gupt_kaur, its just you saying i'm confused and im a bookworm and i use long words and then concluding with Bani parla,,,, well if you read my previous posts you'd understand that is my point and sorry bhen ji if i sound like im arguing with you because like I've said as fellow Singh and Singhniyan we're all brothers and sisters, but my point is knowledge (GIAN) and being a SIKH (a learner/student/disciple) these are words consistently used throughout Bani therefore don't you think this is key to our faith, to be able to interpret effectively and learn from Maharaj ji.