Sangat Ji Wake Up

[Guest confusingh]

Could you clarify what you mean by the below statement I do not understand it?

Also what hapeened to Kiranpreet, I am sure by now if you know about the photos so will her parents, so why does she not convert back ? (I know saying it and doing it are entirly differnet ) :

*******

would have loved to see the Singhs who back in the day ran away, stick with us in Luton, they looked as if they were Guru Ke Singh, warriors wearing bana, however these were the first ones to leave us, if we don't see each other as brothers and sisters how can we expect to appeal to youngsters as Gursikhs?

In regards to the girl, well when you live in an area where Islam is the majority religion, she won't see the benefits of Sikhi, as far as I know she could be anywhere right now, you lose contact with many people after uni, but nobody saw her after the whole conversion incident, and she was a clever girl, just goes to show, nobody is immune!

Basically back when we were young and in my first year @ uni it was in summer term or easter break i believe, anyway we decided to go to Luton and see these guys, we had these 'fanatical' who'd go on and on saying we are true sikhs, we should kill everybody, we always do bhagti, as you'll find some posting on here, they basically alienated every mona to dislike them, and therefore when we went to Luton, we had about 7 or 8 cars, (we would have had alot more if they didn't get on everybodys nerves, and actually got on with people) two cars were full of these Singhs they legged it at the sight of the number of the pakistani lads. These people I don't really see anymore and all they do is go round handing leaflets out about fellow Singhs saying this is wrong and this is wrong, when in all honesty they are the ones who don't understand Sikhi.

They too use the terms oh that is a 'missionary' Gurdwara, and such as I've seen people use on here, I think they live in Birmingham at this moment in time, not too sure, but any way if you meet any of the lads from 97 - 00 that went to Luton ask them what happened, and ask them what these Singhs who say they are 'Taksali' and 'True' Singhs did and where they went, and also where the boys in the rover (one of their cars) were hiding,,, they'll tell you they were hiding in a pub just to save themselves from beats and leave their fellow Singhs. My point is it is these sort of fanatics that spread divisions within Singhs up being the ones who won't do anything, and can't fight to save their lives, they are all talk and they only lost respect for themselves in that whole incident.

Again, what we went down for wasn't the right way to go about it, and I was young and wasn't aware of everything, emotions all over the place, I didn't give any thought as of the outcome, and how it would reflect upon our community, so I think in hindsight it was a mistake to put faith in them people who show so much 'hype' and ultimately we were wrong in going to the area to start a fight.

Fateh!

[Guest confusingh]

Ok, I got a question for you all...

What is the difference between a Punjabi or a "Sikh" that is already on the wrong track, going out clubbing, waisting his or her time getting high or drunk, and completely against the teachings of sikhi, how they different from anyone that converted?

We have already lost them. Bringing them back to sikhi is the same thing as in bringing anyone back from ANY side other than sikhi. They have already made up their minds.

I wanted to clear this up with everyone that we shouldnt be seeing that them converting is wrong, but we were wrong not to do something for them BEFORE they were sidetracked. If an amritdhari, guru ka sikh has converted, then thats a big deal since he was a 'practising sikh'.

A person that is already not into sikhi, not living as a sikh, we have already lost him/her LOOOOOONG time ago !

Other than that, YES, we should be doing prachaar, YES, we should be doing seva to stop these conversions, YES we should be educating the youth and YES I agree it is majority the PARENTS FAULT for not educating their youth!

Just my two cents worth ...

Yes Veer ji, you are correct, we should not do preferential treatment just because they haven't converted, but the point is... that the people who are converting are giving up or not partaking in this whole clubbing, drinking, smoking thing, they are converting to Islam and stopping these so they are either not being sidetracked, or stopping to convert.

I agree with you completely though we should do something before, but the fact that there are underhand tactics like brainwashing and lieing being used to convert aren't simply them converting, its them being converted which is the problem

Fateh!

[Lotus_Flower_]

this is quite common, my Aunt is a receptionist and said that a girl came in with a hijab and said her name was Iram Khan, my aunt couldn't find her record anywhere and asked her date of birth, when my aunt searched records for the date of birth only one name came up which was gurjinder kaur. my aunt told her the only name we have for this date of birth is gurjinder kaur. the girl said ohh you guys still have my old name and casually walked out.

also a girl at my college is living with her muslim DJ boyfriend and recently just had a baby boy which they named some muslamaan name. he hasn't even told his parents he is with her. i know alot of girls who have fathered musalman mens babies, they walk around with prams thinking they have such a great life. yeah right

i could sit here and tell you loads of stories i have witnessed first hand.

[Kaljug Singh]

Fateh!

They ARE spreading Islam, their intentions ARE Islamic. These modern day Muslims are doing the same thing that their ancestors have done since the creation of Islam, the same thing has been happening since the 7th century and yet people want to believe that it is some kind of anomaly and that Islam as a religious and political entity is actually peaceful and tolerant.

I know that Sikhi has a reputation of acceptance (not just tolerance), but you do not have to tolerate intolerance and you do not have to respect someone's beliefs because they are under the impression that they are revealed by some spiritual entity.

The sooner people stop being so politically correct and call a spade a spade, the sooner we will be able to deal with such issues. My advice is to read the history of Islamic conquests, learn about taquiyyah (the practice of deception for the furtherance of Islam), and just plain look around you and look at the chaos that Islam has created in every single country where Muslims are a majority.

On the one hand, you have Muslims destroying everything in their path and enforcing Islamic law; on the other hand, you have the greasy smooth Islamic apologists like Tariq Ramadan telling you that these Muslims are actually misguided (but fail to explain the fact that these jihadis are using Islamic texts and precedent as reasons). Yet the same thing keeps happening - more countries fall apart under Islamic terrorism, others cave into Muslim demands through the political process, and as soon as the Muslim population becomes a majority, they apply Islam through force and initimidation.

Educate yourself and know more about Sikhi AND Islam than any Muslim fanatic you encounter, plant a seed of doubt in his or head and watch them fall apart. Don't feel that you have to sit back and respectfully listen to their arguments, and don't feel that it is wrong to attack their religious principles and texts out of some misguided belief that it is somehow an unSikh thing to do.

Also read the old rehat maryadas concerning Muslims, as they are still a good guide to relating with them. These are things our ancestors learned through painful experience so we would not have to.

Regards,

K.

[HSD*^]

its all about the gurudwaras. in my local gurudwara a few gursikhs protested against the committees stupid lack of action and ended up being escorted out of the gurudwara by police for 'trespassing'! then moneh dont come to the gurudwara in large numbers because they get ridiculed by the keshdhari. now they hang out at the youth club all bitter and resentful. what a joke. if a few intelligent panthic gursikhs formed some kind of british gurudwara committee maybe we could turn our community around. but most of the committees want to run the gurudwaras like giant cornershops and divide the sangat to mask their own crimes.

[caveman]

inshallah we convert inshallah!

[Kaljug Singh]

inshallah we convert inshallah!

Derkha derkha!

K.

[Mr. Pakora]

TO MY DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS...

why are you guys so stressed out? I mean first of all, no one is even willing to fight with any "aggressor". Secondly, why the hell are you guys so worried about other people. Just live your own life. SIMPLE. Do you think that you are the girl's father or sumthin.

Like seriously, Calm down! The Khalsa is never defeated. So why are you guys stressing out so bad?? I suggest you find ways to improve your own life first. confusingh, i understand your concern, but wudnt it be better for you to spend your energy for doing seva at your local gurdwara, rather than worrying about girls who dont even give a s%$& about you??? I mean, let them do what they do... I am sure they understand what they are doing is wrong. Our duty should be to kindly explain the circumstances to our sisters or brothers. Dont worry, Guru Sahib will do kirpa.... jus do paath and ardaas... simple... instead of wasting time on sikhsangat posting about this kinda stuff. Sorry if I offended anyone, please forgive me if I said anything wrong.

[lion123]

Yes as I am growing older and older, I seem to agree that we should relay on the on the eternal Guru, and let the Almighty sort this mess out.

BUT.... On the other hand out ancestors took up the sword and fought off and defeated these Arabs. The GURU’s wanted out ancestors to stand-up for ourselves.

Also we really need to understand how wide spread this problem is ?Lotus_Flower_ made three points –

Her aunt saw identified a Sikh convert at her reception . – Can you not try and convert her back, inform her parents she was in the surgey ?

She knows of a girl living with a muslim DJ – Can you not tell her parents or someone in the community to deal with the situation.

She knows of many girls that have had babies that have been fathered by Muslims – Luckily I have not met these women yet. Who are they , where do they live , what is the true number of people that fall under this category. How many Sikhs in the UK have converted to Islam, how many women have converted ?

All of the above incidents you can inform the Sikh Help Line or the Sikh Awareness Society.

I remember when the women from West Bromwich was brain-washed, as a result there was supposed to be a project funded by the Gurudwara to get real statisics , whats happened to the project ? The project was the supposed to be forwarded to the government for action.

Also another side matter, I was at the Coventry Vasakhi Mela, three incidents occurred which I do not understand ?

- Two pakis (they looked like pakis- no Kara etc) , one quite big walking around the mela like he owns the show and like he could take any Sikh girl if he wanted, he walked right upto a group of SIkh men shook there hands and walked off.. The group of Sikhs are the same type handing out leaflets about being aware of Muslim ( which is quite right) what I do not understand is why this Sikhs did not tell the pakis to get out of the mela.

- One Sikh girl ( I think she was Sikh ) got punched and was bleeding. Who did that , what happened ?

- There was another Paki walking around smoking with his family?

What I do not understand is how these muslims have the balls to walk around the mela like the dogs bollocks and one was even smoking, I know for a fact, if a Sikh went to a EID mela, he would be killed.

These Muslims are a real problem, its not a joke any more. Our community is not doing enough. A large number of people in jail are muslims, they have no problem committing crimes and are from a street

[Lotus_Flower_]

^^ where i have grown up this is the norm, since i can remember i have heard stories in the playground of how one of my muslims friends Aunt 'used to be a sikh' etc etc. alot of my old sikh friends at school dated muslims one is even married to one. i myself with guru sahebs kirpa never went down that path. put honestly as a child i just felt it was normal for sikh girls converting to islam. nobody talks about it nobody questions it, its only now people are getting pro active and going to gurudwara and doing talks. which i personally think isn't as affect as i hoped, although it helps it doesn't target the actually girls who are out their being converted because these girls don't go to the gurudwara.

i know a singh who wears full bana shastar walks into reinsbhahee dressed head to toe in guru sahibs shastar, yet his sister is dating a paki who is seen frequently kissing, hugging him etc by other members of the sikh community. its disgusting and nobody does anything about it. i really think the UK sangat are not doing anything (including myself) very sad