Insults To Sggs Ji In Vienna...i Want The Truth Please!

[hawk13]

It is sad to see some people using slave and communal terms like chamar forthemselves these r terms given to them by pandas not the sikhs rather Guru Arjun Dev ji created a colony of shoemakers I will not use term chamar near durbar shaib who have shops still today none of them had joined the protests. GURDWARA MOVEMENT STARTED AS SOME LOW CASTE SIKHS AFTER TAKING AMRIT WANTED TO PAY RESPECT AT DURBAR SHAIB BUT MAHANTS BELONGING TO UDASI SECT REFUSED TO LET THEM IN IT WAS THE REAL SINGHS WHO BROUGHT THEM TO DURBAR SHAIB. UDASI MAHANTS USED TO BAN LOW CASTES IN GURDWARA IT WAS UPTO 1925 WHEN MAHANTS WERE UPROOTED THEY HELD A CONVENTION THEY PROMISED TO TAKE BACK GURDWARAS BACK EVEN IT MAY TAKE A CENTURY NOW MOST OF DEREDARS R FROM THE SAME BACKGROUND AND RELIGIOUS PRACTICES RESEMBLES OF MAHANT RITUALS. REHAT MARYADA IS CONCLUSION OF VARIOUS REHAT NAMAS I WILL POST THE REAL REHAT NAMAS SOON.SO DERA RUN EITHER BY BY NON SIKH PERSON OR ASOCALLED SIKH SAINTS RARELY CELEBRATE GURPURBS BUT CELEBRATE FAKE SANTS BITHDAY WITH NAGARKIRTANS NOW AND DO THE KATHA OF MAHABHARAT AND RAMAYAN NOT OF GURMATT. SO DERA CULTURE IS LIKE GANGRENE TO SIKH PANTH. EVEN FAKE SCHLORS R WORST.

[AK47 JATHA LION]

firstly it has not been proven that the KZF did this - only an email has been sent and anyone can knock up an email in 5 seconds and sign it Santa Claus it doesnt mean everyone should go beat him up or blame him when he is delivering presents.

secondly brother i was also born in "chamar family" and my only links with this background were buying nike leather trainers and thats about it lol

there are reports that he did beadbi of Guru Granth Sahib, that he made inflammatory statements against Gurmat, that sikhs were beaten severely by his chelay and that he was shot in retaliation. the reality is we wont know exactly what took place for many months whilst investigations take place.

do you think in this day and age we have lots and lots of bhagats? or lots of fakes? this "guru" tells people dont take amrit and join khalsa, instead he gives naam himself which just happens to be same naam given by fake radhasoami gurus.

i decided to take amrit later and am amritdhari now. i follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji only. i couldnt follow a human especially a dehdhari guru. we both know this dehdhari guru was shot for a reason. if you carry around chelay armed with weapons & goondas/bodyguards you have them for a reason. the people who follow this guy have caused enough frictions in ravidassia bhawans across europe and india. this guy was not telling people to follow Guru Granth Sahib and was instead gathering chelay.

why should we wash his dirty feet? cant he run his own bath? i'm sorry but i'm sick of these people using our community and manipulating innocent people to pay them all their money and bow to him and wash his feet and wipe his backside. why didnt he just get a job like the rest of us? truth is no human is perfect - only Guru Granth Sahib and Bani is perfect. humans say & do stupid things and get shot - this is reality.

the only way out of this is to stop following these fake people and instead follow what Guru Granth Sahib teaches, then we will find the answers to our questions. until then we will run around in circles following this human or that human who has no answers or doesnt even have a clue what he is doing in life.

...I agree with the other poster who said leather belts aswell...LoL

On a serious note - the reason for this topic is that there are all these rumours & lies etc. There must be some picture evidence or a YouTube video or something! This is dividing all Sikhs even further I am just compelled to know the truth - oh well let's wait to see what the Austrians say (my German will come in handy!)

...Waheguru...Waheguru...Waheguru...

not all beadbi which takes place is immedietly filmed and uploaded on youtube. Most beadbi isnt even filmed and goes unheard of until someone with courage speaks out.

Also realise that people dont just brandish pistols and walk into places of worship and shoot people over nothing. The truth is slowly emerging now. The long list of his beadbi is coming to light, just keep your eyes open and listen to people's personal eye witness accounts before calling people "ignorant fools".

[mastaana_singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Request to all Sikh sangat... Please look at the photo's and newspaper articles before saying that people responsible were the actions in Vienna were wrong…

We should not fight amongst ourselves but look at the facts.

The incident was not in anyway to do with cast… read the articles… I’m sorry I haven’t got the English translation of the articles..

Bhul Chuk Muaf

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Guest PunjabSingh]

At last RavidassiSikh got his answer.

Thanks mastaana_singh.

[swordsedge]

sikhs and sikh dalits and all other peoples are brothers and sisters. i cant see how any khalistani group would be linked since dalits make up a large proportion of those supporting these groups. they loved sant jarnail singh because he was a man of the people, and a leader of the rural common folk. some anti-sikh forces are trying to drive a wedge and create hatred between members of the sikh community.

KZF has totally denied involvement - they are being fitted up !!

Akash radio and Associated press first leaked this story - clearly they should have verified the authenticity of the "email" befor leaking it to worldwide press. will they now apologise for this mistake?

the truth will only come out in many months by then Badal and the anti-sikh forces will brand all sikhs negatively and turn the attention away from 25th anniversary of operation bluestar which badal helped take place.

i was born in chamar family but am now immortal thanks to Guru Gobind Singh ji. now i want to hear an apology from those making wild unproven accusations. KZF has totally denied any involvement and has said chamars and other sikhs are brothers and sisters.

this is an internal issue in chamar community. people like me who have left their chamar status and follow Guru Granth Sahib and believe they are Sikh are rising up against this fake human guru. we have been trying to prevent the dehdhair followers from gaining control in bhawan elections because when they get control of the temple they start doing beadbi and human worship and anti-sikh speeches.

we need your support to kick these dehdhari followers out of our temples so sangat can have peace.

[RavidassiSikh]

At last RavidassiSikh got his answer.

Thanks mastaana_singh.

Can I just say if someone wants to seek the truth they have to look at things from both sides.

I was aware of these articles /pictures & I agree 'mutha tekking' these Sants In Gurdwara is not Sikhi. But to me this doesn't explain why a man was shot. Let me explain...

- These articles are from 2002, the issue was that people from Ravidass community were complaining that when Dera Sants came to our Ravidass Gurdwaras in Southall/Birmingham people were touching their feet in the prescence of SGGS Ji. Some people thought this was okay some people thought it was wrong - but mainly this was fuelled by internal committee politics e.g. one side criticising the other. However this practise was stopped & I saw with my own eyes that since then Gurdwaras asked Sants to go to the Hall & let people touch their feet there not in presence of SGGS Maharaj Ji.

- So we knew that people were bowing their heads & touching Sants' feet inside Gurdwara - this is clearly not right. But is this really reason for the assasination & troubles in Vienna ? I personally don't think so... I'm not Sherlock but I think there's another reason...

[dalsingh101]

I see this sant bowing thing all over the place. Yawn.......

[Guest amar_jkp]

Hindus in delhi and NCR regions are saying these Sardars have no balls to do anything in abroad here they are destroying property after all they are Sardars (in derogatory manner)

[Ravidassia]

Firstly – I've seen a few ignorant idiots posting on this site to intentionally cause trouble – if you are true Sikhs then you wouldn't be representing your community in this way!

Now I am NOT a Dera follower but a follower of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, & of I am of so-called Chamar background (but I only buy leather for my own shoes :D ).

Anywho…. My question is what exactly have Dera Sachkhand Ballan Sants done to deserve assassination – what Beadbi or insults have they done?

I have asked a few people about the Sants & read-up to find the truth. I agree some points below are not strictly orthodox Sikhi – but tell me which one is an insult to SGGS Ji?!

- They spread teachings of SGGS Ji and ALL the Gurus & raise the name of Ravidass Dass Maharaj Ji especially because they are all of low caste background.

- Just like other other caste-based Preachers / Sants in Punjab & they do NOT call themselves Gurus & do not TELL people to touch their feet, however people invariably do when they see them. I am not saying this is right….

- People are saying they sit at the same level as SGGS Ji – I don't understand this because the videos I have seen on YouTube they are just sitting same place you would see Gyanis or 'Kirtan wale' sitting.

- Their Gurdwaras have pictures of the Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji & all Gurus but also most prominently Ravidass Maharaj Ji & all the low caste Bhagats / Sants. Isn't this similar to other caste Gurdwaras some who have their own high caste Sants & even picures of Jarnail Singh / Shaheeds etc up. Right? Wrong?

- Finally it said on Star News that they built 2 hospitals & 10 schools for the poor of all castes not just poor people from low castes.

What have this Khalistan Zindabad Force done for the poor or needy OR what have they done to spread teachings of SGGS Ji?

Can someone please tell me as Sikhs why some looneys are allowed to kill people in the presence of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj?

I am happy to be proved wrong but if these men/Dera were doing something so wrong why did the SGPC (temporal & spiritual HQ for Sikhism)/ Akal Takht not raise a Hukam to denounce them like they have done in other cases e.g. these Sacha Sauda odd people.

By the way - my idea is that there should be a 'Reclaim The Khalsa' Movement - end casteism.

Ek Oankar, Sat Guru Prasad

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

The only solution to this problem is that all the jatt sikh gurudwara people all over the world should go the ravidassias and there gurudwaras and stand by them at this senstive time and send strong message to whoever did it that we as sikhs stand united against them and i think all the sikhs should realise the and protest against the death of Sant ramannad ji coz he was a SIKH. Its time to unite not to divide

[roopraj]

There are many evidences that followers were touching his feet in presence of SGGS. This was the main problem many sikh group had with dera.

lok kehnde ne ke SGGS di hazoori wich kise nu matha tekna thik nahi maniya janda. Main briefy sikh reht maryada check kiti hai. SGGS di hazoori wich kise nu matha tekan bare kuchh nahi likhiya hoeya.

jis tarah je gurudware wich gurbani (kirtan, padh ya katha) chal rahi hove ate koi apnian gallan kari jave. eh bhi bura lagda hai.

There are no justification about his death.

I believe that attack was previously planned, it has nothing to do with anything happening in Gurudwara at that day. But it is just my believe and I can be completely wrong.