Insults To Sggs Ji In Vienna...i Want The Truth Please!

[RavidassiSikh]

Firstly – I’ve seen a few ignorant idiots posting on this site to intentionally cause trouble – if you are true Sikhs then you wouldn’t be representing your community in this way!

Now I am NOT a Dera follower but a follower of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, & of I am of so-called Chamar background (but I only buy leather for my own shoes :D ).

Anywho…. My question is what exactly have Dera Sachkhand Ballan Sants done to deserve assassination – what Beadbi or insults have they done?

I have asked a few people about the Sants & read-up to find the truth. I agree some points below are not strictly orthodox Sikhi – but tell me which one is an insult to SGGS Ji?!

- They spread teachings of SGGS Ji and ALL the Gurus & raise the name of Ravidass Dass Maharaj Ji especially because they are all of low caste background.

- Just like other other caste-based Preachers / Sants in Punjab & they do NOT call themselves Gurus & do not TELL people to touch their feet, however people invariably do when they see them. I am not saying this is right….

- People are saying they sit at the same level as SGGS Ji – I don’t understand this because the videos I have seen on YouTube they are just sitting same place you would see Gyanis or ‘Kirtan wale’ sitting.

- Their Gurdwaras have pictures of the Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji & all Gurus but also most prominently Ravidass Maharaj Ji & all the low caste Bhagats / Sants. Isn’t this similar to other caste Gurdwaras some who have their own high caste Sants & even picures of Jarnail Singh / Shaheeds etc up. Right? Wrong?

- Finally it said on Star News that they built 2 hospitals & 10 schools for the poor of all castes not just poor people from low castes.

What have this Khalistan Zindabad Force done for the poor or needy OR what have they done to spread teachings of SGGS Ji?

Can someone please tell me as Sikhs why some looneys are allowed to kill people in the presence of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj?

I am happy to be proved wrong but if these men/Dera were doing something so wrong why did the SGPC (temporal & spiritual HQ for Sikhism)/ Akal Takht not raise a Hukam to denounce them like they have done in other cases e.g. these Sacha Sauda odd people.

By the way - my idea is that there should be a 'Reclaim The Khalsa' Movement - end casteism.

Ek Oankar, Sat Guru Prasad

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

[geo]

Firstly – I've seen a few ignorant idiots posting on this site to intentionally cause trouble – if you are true Sikhs then you wouldn't be representing your community in this way!

Now I am NOT a Dera follower but a follower of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, & of I am of so-called Chamar background (but I only buy leather for my own shoes :D ).

Anywho…. My question is what exactly have Dera Sachkhand Ballan Sants done to deserve assassination – what Beadbi or insults have they done?

I have asked a few people about the Sants & read-up to find the truth. I agree some points below are not strictly orthodox Sikhi – but tell me which one is an insult to SGGS Ji?!

- They spread teachings of SGGS Ji and ALL the Gurus & raise the name of Ravidass Dass Maharaj Ji especially because they are all of low caste background.

- Just like other other caste-based Preachers / Sants in Punjab & they do NOT call themselves Gurus & do not TELL people to touch their feet, however people invariably do when they see them. I am not saying this is right….

- People are saying they sit at the same level as SGGS Ji – I don't understand this because the videos I have seen on YouTube they are just sitting same place you would see Gyanis or 'Kirtan wale' sitting.

- Their Gurdwaras have pictures of the Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji & all Gurus but also most prominently Ravidass Maharaj Ji & all the low caste Bhagats / Sants. Isn't this similar to other caste Gurdwaras some who have their own high caste Sants & even picures of Jarnail Singh / Shaheeds etc up. Right? Wrong?

- Finally it said on Star News that they built 2 hospitals & 10 schools for the poor of all castes not just poor people from low castes.

What have this Khalistan Zindabad Force done for the poor or needy OR what have they done to spread teachings of SGGS Ji?

Can someone please tell me as Sikhs why some looneys are allowed to kill people in the presence of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj?

I am happy to be proved wrong but if these men/Dera were doing something so wrong why did the SGPC (temporal & spiritual HQ for Sikhism)/ Akal Takht not raise a Hukam to denounce them like they have done in other cases e.g. these Sacha Sauda odd people.

By the way - my idea is that there should be a 'Reclaim The Khalsa' Movement - end casteism.

Ek Oankar, Sat Guru Prasad

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

they did nothing to justify being killed. it is not for humans to carry out death sentence justice in the name of religion or god. casteism should be ended it is a wicked evil system.

[Matheen]

Veer Ji, a close friend of mine had the misfortune of listening to Sant Ramanand when they visited Manor Park Gurudwara in London a few years ago. He told me then how Ramanand spoke against Guru Arjan Sahib Ji and against Guru Gobind Singh Ji. When he heard of the shooting, he called me to say how happy he was.

This has been building up over time but hasn't got the attention of the media, unlike the Sacha Sauda or Baniarawala sagas.

Ramanand was asked politely (over many years!) to stop spreading lies about Guru Sahib, but he carried on.

What happened was inevitable and has nothing to do with caste. Nobody is stopped from going into or participating in regular Gurudwaras ( at least out of India) - what is the need for caste based places, that leave you open to be used by fake sants and add to the divisions in the panth.

Guru Sahib ended all discrimination based on caste, but we don't listen!

(PS: my friend is still a Granthi at Manor Park, I can pass you his contact details if you want to ask him directly).

[Trigger Happy]

Anywho…. My question is what exactly have Dera Sachkhand Ballan Sants done to deserve assassination – what Beadbi or insults have they done?

Bhai Sahib Ji there is no point asking anybody here unless they were involved in the 'party in the Bhawan'. It is also useless reading biased and sensationalist news reports, mostly in India Media and others.

The best bet would be to wait until the interrogation of the people who were involved in the killing of the baba is done by the Vienna police and statements are released. Until then everyone here and elsewhere will only be second guessing and just going on past experiences.

P.S what about your belts?

[apnepart2]

the first step to end casteism is to stop calling yourself chamar or ravidassi. Stop going to caste creed based ravidassi gurdwara and chakk amrit. Become a sikh. But is guess it would be very difficult to play the victim card again without your caste. And why are u not saying anything against the loss of rs 7000 crore to panjab done by casteist hooligans? why don,t you petition the indian govt and un to label casteism as racism? But then you will have to close your racist place of worship.

[swordsedge]

firstly it has not been proven that the KZF did this - only an email has been sent and anyone can knock up an email in 5 seconds and sign it Santa Claus it doesnt mean everyone should go beat him up or blame him when he is delivering presents.

secondly brother i was also born in "chamar family" and my only links with this background were buying nike leather trainers and thats about it lol

there are reports that he did beadbi of Guru Granth Sahib, that he made inflammatory statements against Gurmat, that sikhs were beaten severely by his chelay and that he was shot in retaliation. the reality is we wont know exactly what took place for many months whilst investigations take place.

do you think in this day and age we have lots and lots of bhagats? or lots of fakes? this "guru" tells people dont take amrit and join khalsa, instead he gives naam himself which just happens to be same naam given by fake radhasoami gurus.

i decided to take amrit later and am amritdhari now. i follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji only. i couldnt follow a human especially a dehdhari guru. we both know this dehdhari guru was shot for a reason. if you carry around chelay armed with weapons & goondas/bodyguards you have them for a reason. the people who follow this guy have caused enough frictions in ravidassia bhawans across europe and india. this guy was not telling people to follow Guru Granth Sahib and was instead gathering chelay.

why should we wash his dirty feet? cant he run his own bath? i'm sorry but i'm sick of these people using our community and manipulating innocent people to pay them all their money and bow to him and wash his feet and wipe his backside. why didnt he just get a job like the rest of us? truth is no human is perfect - only Guru Granth Sahib and Bani is perfect. humans say & do stupid things and get shot - this is reality.

the only way out of this is to stop following these fake people and instead follow what Guru Granth Sahib teaches, then we will find the answers to our questions. until then we will run around in circles following this human or that human who has no answers or doesnt even have a clue what he is doing in life.

[RavidassiSikh]

the first step to end casteism is to stop calling yourself chamar or ravidassi. Stop going to caste creed based ravidassi gurdwara and chakk amrit. Become a sikh. But is guess it would be very difficult to play the victim card again without your caste. And why are u not saying anything against the loss of rs 7000 crore to panjab done by casteist hooligans? why don,t you petition the indian govt and un to label casteism as racism? But then you will have to close your racist place of worship.

Agreed - the hooligans are complete idiots there is nothing in Guru Nanak or Ravidass Ji's teachings to say riot & loot Punjab when someone is killed.

FYI - people do not want to be "low-caste" they are labelled with it, we, as low caste Sikhs have been discriminated against since Sri Guru Gobind Singh JI Maharaj left this world. If I had my way I wouldnt have a label I wouldnt be of Chamar background. The below is my answer to someone who asked me the same question as you have:

"" People from low castes who are Sikhs and have been for generations & generations are told that we are not real Sikhs because we are of Chamar or Dalit background.... But you have people saying they are Jat Sikh or Ramgarhia Sikh. Ravidassi Sikh is a beautiful reference, taking the name of Ravidass Ji Maharaj who was from a low family. Why should people like you say we are not Sikhs - why should we be Chamar Sikhs?? Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj's Hukam was for the Khalsa to be one regardless of caste - oppression is the reason why some low-caste people prefer to be Hindu, some Ravidassia & some like me who will always stay behind the Sikh banner regardless.""

...Waheguru...Waheguru...Waheguru...

[RavidassiSikh]

firstly it has not been proven that the KZF did this - only an email has been sent and anyone can knock up an email in 5 seconds and sign it Santa Claus it doesnt mean everyone should go beat him up or blame him when he is delivering presents.

secondly brother i was also born in "chamar family" and my only links with this background were buying nike leather trainers and thats about it lol

there are reports that he did beadbi of Guru Granth Sahib, that he made inflammatory statements against Gurmat, that sikhs were beaten severely by his chelay and that he was shot in retaliation. the reality is we wont know exactly what took place for many months whilst investigations take place.

do you think in this day and age we have lots and lots of bhagats? or lots of fakes? this "guru" tells people dont take amrit and join khalsa, instead he gives naam himself which just happens to be same naam given by fake radhasoami gurus.

i decided to take amrit later and am amritdhari now. i follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji only. i couldnt follow a human especially a dehdhari guru. we both know this dehdhari guru was shot for a reason. if you carry around chelay armed with weapons & goondas/bodyguards you have them for a reason. the people who follow this guy have caused enough frictions in ravidassia bhawans across europe and india. this guy was not telling people to follow Guru Granth Sahib and was instead gathering chelay.

why should we wash his dirty feet? cant he run his own bath? i'm sorry but i'm sick of these people using our community and manipulating innocent people to pay them all their money and bow to him and wash his feet and wipe his backside. why didnt he just get a job like the rest of us? truth is no human is perfect - only Guru Granth Sahib and Bani is perfect. humans say & do stupid things and get shot - this is reality.

the only way out of this is to stop following these fake people and instead follow what Guru Granth Sahib teaches, then we will find the answers to our questions. until then we will run around in circles following this human or that human who has no answers or doesnt even have a clue what he is doing in life.

...I agree with the other poster who said leather belts aswell...LoL

On a serious note - the reason for this topic is that there are all these rumours & lies etc. There must be some picture evidence or a YouTube video or something! This is dividing all Sikhs even further I am just compelled to know the truth - oh well let's wait to see what the Austrians say (my German will come in handy!)

...Waheguru...Waheguru...Waheguru...

[Guest HaRdKaUrWaRrIoRz]

Firstly – I’ve seen a few ignorant idiots posting on this site to intentionally cause trouble – if you are true Sikhs then you wouldn’t be representing your community in this way!

Now I am NOT a Dera follower but a follower of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, & of I am of so-called Chamar background (but I only buy leather for my own shoes :D ).

Anywho…. My question is what exactly have Dera Sachkhand Ballan Sants done to deserve assassination – what Beadbi or insults have they done?

I have asked a few people about the Sants & read-up to find the truth. I agree some points below are not strictly orthodox Sikhi – but tell me which one is an insult to SGGS Ji?!

- They spread teachings of SGGS Ji and ALL the Gurus & raise the name of Ravidass Dass Maharaj Ji especially because they are all of low caste background.

- Just like other other caste-based Preachers / Sants in Punjab & they do NOT call themselves Gurus & do not TELL people to touch their feet, however people invariably do when they see them. I am not saying this is right….

- People are saying they sit at the same level as SGGS Ji – I don’t understand this because the videos I have seen on YouTube they are just sitting same place you would see Gyanis or ‘Kirtan wale’ sitting.

- Their Gurdwaras have pictures of the Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji & all Gurus but also most prominently Ravidass Maharaj Ji & all the low caste Bhagats / Sants. Isn’t this similar to other caste Gurdwaras some who have their own high caste Sants & even picures of Jarnail Singh / Shaheeds etc up. Right? Wrong?

- Finally it said on Star News that they built 2 hospitals & 10 schools for the poor of all castes not just poor people from low castes.

What have this Khalistan Zindabad Force done for the poor or needy OR what have they done to spread teachings of SGGS Ji?

Can someone please tell me as Sikhs why some looneys are allowed to kill people in the presence of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj?

I am happy to be proved wrong but if these men/Dera were doing something so wrong why did the SGPC (temporal & spiritual HQ for Sikhism)/ Akal Takht not raise a Hukam to denounce them like they have done in other cases e.g. these Sacha Sauda odd people.

By the way - my idea is that there should be a 'Reclaim The Khalsa' Movement - end casteism.

Ek Oankar, Sat Guru Prasad

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

I completely agree with you first and foremost, I am not a ravidaas follower or anything and jsut to clear it up ( i know sikhi does NOT condemn this but i want to allow ppl to see who this viewpoint is coming from YES MY ANCESTORS WERE JATT SO I DO COME FROM A JATT BACKGROUND, BUT I AM A SIKH SO I DONT BELIEVE INTHAT NONSENSE, ITSMORE LIEK A JOB NOT A CASTE TO ME)

anyways, you are right, ravidaas community is accpeted by sikhs, they never did any beadbi and they all of your points should answer any questions the misguided youth should have, i swear its so annoying that youth dont know as much about sikhi as elders and they take evrything to such an extreme, why dont you learn something first, i am a youth as well but im sure older than more thanhalf of you..

anyways enough of my rant, but this whole move by khalistan w.e force, where di they come from? if a BABBAR SINGH can say that they are accpeted in sikhs then how can these same ppl who rant about 84 go against that belief? btw my opinion is not solely based on what the singh said, i know for a fact that they dont do beadbi, i meamn look for urselves a bit guys dont just believe what you read, do your own research, WHAT ABOUT SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, WERE ALL OF THE BHAGATS THAT WROT IN THERE AMRIT DHARI? WHERE THEY ALL SIKHS? i swear some ppl are a joke, if bhagat ravidaas ji IS IN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, THEN THE <banned word filter activated> WHO BURNT SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI IN INDIA CLEARLY ISNT A RAVIDAASI FOLLOWER . WHY > BECAUSE AT THE SAME TIME HE GAVE SHAHEEDI TO BHAGAT RAVIDAAS JI, WHO CONTRIBUTED TO OUYR HOLY GURU, SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, ARE PEOPLE BLIND IN BELIEVIN THAT A RAVIDAASIA WOULD DO THAT?

people THINK about it a bit, i cant believe how easily the sikh panth can be shaken by politicians and other enemies who want this to happen between us, this is a plot by someone who clearly is ANTI sikh to raise hell within our sikh community, do not put divides! if someone is hindu , muslim and they are truly god loving, and we praise them as sikhs ( bhai mardana, bhagat farid ji) then what is wrong with ravidaasi;s who are not manipulating anything but instead praising a bhagat in guru granth sahib ji?

do you guys realize that you can be a bhagat without taking amrit? what do you think where the bhagats in guru granth sahib ji? some were muslim etc not all were sikhs BUT THEY DID KEEP REHIT ACCORDING TO SIKH VALUES as do ravidaas community, they do utmost respect of sri guru granth sahib ji ...

i know im going on a rant but thats because i cant believe how easily our panth can be fooled by ppl who are hell bent on putting divides in us, dont u rem the english divide and rule ?? think of it as the same thing and maybe it might click for some of u

this wasnt directed at all of you guys but for some who i know have the wrong idea and are easily manipulated, the truth hurts, but its better to be hurt than to live a misguided and false life.

again this is coming from a person whose ancestors were jatts and even tho i do not associate myself with that title it is shopwing you tht AS A SIKH I LOVE MY FELLOW SIKHS WHO ARE FROM CHAMAAR BACKGROUND OR TARKHAN BACKGROUND OR ANY BACKGROUND because for me that doesnt exist, what exists for me is that you are my brothers and sisters who believe in a common thing , in the end if you ask me wat i am ,what is my caste id say WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, I AM FROM THE FAMILY OF GURU GOBIND SINGH JI, MY ANCESTORS WERE SPIRITUAL AND GODLY WARRIORS, WHAT ARE YOU?

pce

[apnepart2]

Agreed - the hooligans are complete idiots there is nothing in Guru Nanak or Ravidass Ji's teachings to say riot & loot Punjab when someone is killed.

FYI - people do not want to be "low-caste" they are labelled with it, we, as low caste Sikhs have been discriminated against since Sri Guru Gobind Singh JI Maharaj left this world. If I had my way I wouldnt have a label I wouldnt be of Chamar background. The below is my answer to someone who asked me the same question as you have:

"" People from low castes who are Sikhs and have been for generations & generations are told that we are not real Sikhs because we are of Chamar or Dalit background.... But you have people saying they are Jat Sikh or Ramgarhia Sikh. Ravidassi Sikh is a beautiful reference, taking the name of Ravidass Ji Maharaj who was from a low family. Why should people like you say we are not Sikhs - why should we be Chamar Sikhs?? Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj's Hukam was for the Khalsa to be one regardless of caste - oppression is the reason why some low-caste people prefer to be Hindu, some Ravidassia & some like me who will always stay behind the Sikh banner regardless.""

...Waheguru...Waheguru...Waheguru...

using ravidassi sikh is casteist and in my opinion racist as well. Khalsa knows no creed and there is only one sikh guru in present times, it is guru granth sahib. khatris don't go around yelling gobinda sikh, do they? if one is pure, japs naam, is honest, treats everything equal then there is no discrimination against that person anywhere in sikhs. but certain people who are short on merit but want bigger role play the caste card to get to top. thats how the ravidassi movement was built and is taking a new shape under fake babas. and why are u not following guru gobind singhs hukam by not referring to yourself as Khalsa? did guru gobind singh coined the term ravidassi sikh? even Bhagat Ravidass would have no idea about racists using his name to gain economic advantage over a more deserving person using the short cut of caste. are you amrit chakk by the way?