Should We Keep Caste Distinctions In The Panth?

[Guest PunjabSingh]

No

No what Nimana?

Castes have no place in Sikhism.

I answered the title question :

"Should We Keep Caste Distinctions In The Panth?"..The answer is "NO".

[dalsingh101]

Thanks Nimana.

Ok, we want both sides here please!!

I know today some people say their jaat is not their caste their but ethnicity and they like to define themselves by this ethnicity. Those people. Can you contribute please?

Pro-caste people. Say your piece!!

[Guest PunjabSingh]

The following was taken from an article on the sikh sangat news page, I think it sums things up perfect:

The media also continue to provoke the situation by portraying the Vienna incident as an issue linked to caste. However, by definition a Sikh is one who believes in one God, the teachings of the ten Sikh Gurus and their utterances contained in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji; and believes it is necessary to take Amrit by Khanda-ki-Pahul bequeathed by the tenth Guru. Those that understand the Sikh faith know those who take Amrit and become part of the Khalsa are deemed to be equal and the Sikh Gurus finished the caste system, which continues to be linked to the Hindu faith and way of life.

The Indian media is all confused .

Sometimes they say it is "Jatt vs Chamaar" dispute..Sometimes it is "Khalsa vs Dalit" dispute(NDTV..I was really surpised to hear this utterly wrong interpretation by NDTV ).

Some say it is Sikh vs Sikh .

The media is either ignorant about Sikhi or does it deliberately.

We keep blaming Americans and other foreigners of being ignorant about Sikhi when they mistake Sikhs for Taliban .What about Indians ?How many Indians know about Sikhi ?

Perhaps most of Indians(if whole of India is taken into consideration) dont know much about Sikhsm even though the present PM is a Sikh.

We have not been able to spread the right message of Sikhism in other parts ofIndia.More knowledge about Sikhism needs to spread across India.

[dalsingh101]

The Indian media is all confused .

Sometimes they say it is "Jatt vs Chamaar" dispute..Sometimes it is "Khalsa vs Dalit" dispute(NDTV..I was really surpised to hear this utterly wrong interpretation by NDTV ).

Some say it is Sikh vs Sikh .

The media is either ignorant about Sikhi or does it deliberately.

We keep blaming Americans and other foreigners of being ignorant about Sikhi when they mistake Sikhs for Taliban .What about Indians ?How many Indians know about Sikhi ?

Perhaps most of Indians(if whole of India is taken into consideration) dont know much about Sikhsm even though the present PM is a Sikh.

We have not been able to spread the right message of Sikhism in other parts ofIndia.More knowledge about Sikhism needs to spread across India.

I think there is a fair point about Sikhs failing to even practice and spread knowledge about Sikhi in Panjab, let alone outside. Why do you think these deras flourish especially with excluded classes.

[Guest PunjabSingh]

Thanks Nimana.

Ok, we want both sides here please!!

I know today some people say their jaat is not their caste their but ethnicity and they like to define themselves by this ethnicity. Those people. Can you contribute please?

Pro-caste people. Say your piece!!

Now for my point I have to tell you that Im Brar jatt .

So Im very pained to see that the maximum number of patit Sikhs are also jatt.

I always keep 2 examples in mind when I wish to chose to whom to side with.One is of Indian patit General K.S.Brar who led the attack on Darbar Sahib in 1984 while on the opposite side was Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale who incidently was also a Brar Jatt.

So whenever some one says "Oh so you are from the same caste as Gen Brar I feel offended so I have to tell them that the one who confronted him and stood for the Khalsa was also Brar "..They feel surprised but atleast shut up.

Sorry for the reference to my caste and for calling revealing Sant Jarnail Singh's caste because he was Khalsa and he never referred to his caste except for one or 2 occassions in his speeches as being Jatt only to explain some point to the sangat.But I had to do it to explain my point.Had I been so much in favour of revealing my caste my id would have been different.

I identify myself with Sant Jarnail Singh's side.

[dalsingh101]

I think by all accounts Sant Jarnail truly practiced non discrimination between Jaats. If you read Khushwant Singh's old book - My Bleeding Punjab, it says as much.

He would accept everyone that took Amrit and even made a friend marry a so called low caste girl who he had got pregnant.

[HSD*^]

the pro-jatts never make their points in public. its like neo-racism: they wont say paki to your face, but they will do everything to get one over you. i have some pro-jatts in my family, but they are all talk. if we want to get past caste, we will have to overcome the barriers. intermarriage, joint gurudwara committees, refusing to say what caste you are to young sikhs etc.

[Matheen]

Jo Sikha Ko Puche Jaat Soh Sikh Nahi Mero Aad Jugaad

(Those who ask a sikh's caste, they are not my sikh, they never were, and they never will be)

--Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee Maharaj)

Where is this from?

[KhalsaRaj 89]

WJKK WJKF

to the singh who started this.... why man its a waste of time. do u as a jatt farm?

u probably dont, so do not big up being a jatt. theres no point. jatts in my view, (even though i completely object to the caste system) are guys who drink too much, n eat meat like theres no tomorrow. the sikh panth does not need these petty devisions, at a amrit sanchar you become a part of the KHALSA not the JATT khalsa of the TARKHAN khalsa, just the KHALSA so stop raising the caste system up. u might aswell become hindu, n even still, being a jatt your not even at the top anywai, so there you go, no need to hype the caste system, it is the BIGGEST scam EVER.

sorry if i offended anyone, but it really badly cheeses me of when someone mentions things like the caste system. with big events like operation blue star anniversary arriving, were singhs and kaurs gave their life for the sikh panth died, we are here still thinking that we should use the caste system <_<

again forgive me if i said anything wrong- i am just a fool whose still learning,

WJKK WJKF

[Jangal Da]

The panth Khalsa obviously has no place for caste or such discrimination against mankind. That is the problem with the caste system - the oppression of a fellow human being and how that is stuck to him despite achievement - its sick.

However one can still be proud to belong to a caste for one reason or another, although this depends upon what fortune was deemed upon you thanks to that very caste system that has made others downtrodden.

Thus I'd like to say that I'm a proud Jat - and why not? For all the excesses and negative stereotypes, this group has a lot to be proud of (Oh, and we can brag about it in very loud voices too!!!). Likewise a Ramgarhia friend of mine has a similar pride in his lineage. I have one friend who is a chamar by caste and due to the evil way that they were treated and kept in a position of lowest servitude, he will shy away from admitting his caste. He's from India originally and one of the first memories of attending a UK gurudwara was when an old woman came up to him and asked straight out what his caste was. When he replied, she retorted that she thought he looked like a chamar and that he should not enter the kitchen for hygeine reasons! This guy has a Food&Hygeine certificate as he works in the restaurant trade!!! This is just stupidity and evilness - the way that these guys have been condemmed down the ages, despite their achievements. Look at one of the epicentres of the recent troubles in Jalandhar - Bittu Mandi - here the chamars have monoploised the leather business in modern ways and many of them are multi-millionaires, yet are still looked down upon by others as being sub-human.

What I am saying is that there is nothing wrong in retaining a caste origin, but casteism itself is an evil that really has no place in the modern world, here or India. After all the Gurus ratained caste when it came to marriage, as that was not the issue - its the injustice of the system that was the gripe.